Divination

[morningstar2651]

Wow...an ethics thread that isn't about sex!

This topic hasn't been discussed in a good while, and I figured it would be a nice change from the usual threads.

Is it ethical to use divination? Why or why not?

By divination, I mean the use of knowledge (usually occult or esoteric knowledge) to forecast.

Divine (v.) "to conjure, to guess," originally "to make out by supernatural insight," early 14c., from L. divinus (see divine (adj.)), which also meant "soothsayer." Hence, divination (c.1374), from O.Fr., from L. divinationem (nom. divinatio) "the power of foreseeing, prediction," from divinatus, pp. of divinare, lit. "to be inspired by a god." Divining rod (or wand) attested from 1656.

 

[Hypothetical]

As far as most of the regulars of this board are concerned, I would assume its fine considering large sections of the Bible contain predictions about the future, and the nonreligious don’t think it actually exists.

 

[Criada]

Biblically, no.

Deuteronomy 18:9-11
9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is like the sin of divination, and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.

 

[Hypothetical]

Noted.

A Biblical version of "Do as I say, not as I do?" Wasn't the entire Bible supposedly written by individuals who were inspired by God to tell of future events?

 

[007Michael]

Biblically, no. There's a difference between using knowledge of the occult(magic, wicca stuff like that) and biblical prophecies, guidance of the Holy Spirit etc.

The purpose of a horoscope is to gain insight into a person’s character and foretell the future. The basic belief of astrology is that planets and stars exert an influence upon our lives. Those with special knowledge—astrologers—can predict events in a person’s life. It is distressing that most major newspapers have a horoscope column, and even more distressing that many Christians read their horoscopes.

The Bible expressly forbids divination, sorcery, and hidden arts (Deuteronomy 18:10-14). God’s people are to heed God only (Deuteronomy 18:15). Any other source of guidance, information, or revelation is to be rejected outright. (See also Acts 16:16-18.) The Bible points to Jesus Christ as the only proper focus of faith (Acts 4:12; Hebrews 12:2). Our trust is in God alone, and we know that He will direct our paths (Proverbs 3:5-6). Faith in anything besides God is misplaced.

Astrology, then, opposes biblical teaching in at least two ways: it advocates faith in something other than God, and it is a form of divination. We cannot determine God's will for our lives through horoscopes. As Christians, we are to read the Bible and pray to God in order to gain wisdom and guidance. Consulting a horoscope is a violation of God's means of communicating with His children. We strongly believe that horoscopes should be rejected by Christians.



http://www.gotquestions.org/horoscopes-Christian.html

 

[morningstar2651]

Biblically, no. There's a difference between using knowledge of the occult(magic, wicca stuff like that) and biblical prophecies, guidance of the Holy Spirit etc.

The purpose of a horoscope is to gain insight into a person’s character and foretell the future. The basic belief of astrology is that planets and stars exert an influence upon our lives. Those with special knowledge—astrologers—can predict events in a person’s life. It is distressing that most major newspapers have a horoscope column, and even more distressing that many Christians read their horoscopes.

The Bible expressly forbids divination, sorcery, and hidden arts (Deuteronomy 18:10-14). God’s people are to heed God only (Deuteronomy 18:15). Any other source of guidance, information, or revelation is to be rejected outright. (See also Acts 16:16-18.) The Bible points to Jesus Christ as the only proper focus of faith (Acts 4:12; Hebrews 12:2). Our trust is in God alone, and we know that He will direct our paths (Proverbs 3:5-6). Faith in anything besides God is misplaced.

Astrology, then, opposes biblical teaching in at least two ways: it advocates faith in something other than God, and it is a form of divination. We cannot determine God's will for our lives through horoscopes. As Christians, we are to read the Bible and pray to God in order to gain wisdom and guidance. Consulting a horoscope is a violation of God's means of communicating with His children. We strongly believe that horoscopes should be rejected by Christians.



Should a Christian consult horoscopes?

Does the admonition to heed God only (Deuteronomy 18:15) also forbid heeding the weather forecast?

How does prophecy differ from divination? The root - divinare - means "to be inspired by a god."

 

[morningstar2651]

The Hebrew word for divination used in Deuteronomy (קס&#1501 appears in Proverbs 16:10.

Proverbs 16:10 (New American Standard Bible)


10A divine (A)decision is in the lips of the king;
His mouth should not err in judgment.

The cross reference follows...

1 Kings 3:28 (New American Standard Bible)

28When all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had handed down, they feared the king, for (A)they saw that the wisdom of God was in him to administer justice.

 

[mpok1519]

witchcraft is just another medium of spiritual communication.

all religions have their own form.

 

[Corey]

Wow...an ethics thread that isn't about sex!

This topic hasn't been discussed in a good while, and I figured it would be a nice change from the usual threads.

Is it ethical to use divination? Why or why not?

By divination, I mean the use of knowledge (usually occult or esoteric knowledge) to forecast.

A better question would be: is it ethical to use divination for someone other than yourself. As there is no such thing as precognition, the ethics of it only come into play for social interactions (like "psychics" also known as frauds).

 

[Andreusz]

As far as most of the regulars of this board are concerned, I would assume its fine considering large sections of the Bible contain predictions about the future, and the nonreligious don’t think it actually exists.

Anyone who claims to practice divination is lying, and to me lying is morally wrong.
I also consider it immoral to believe patent nonsense.

 

[jayem]

A bit off topic, but it's funny how churches work. Joseph Smith having visions of an angel in upstate New York is considered heresy, but a French peasant girl having visions of Mary in Lourdes is considered a holy miracle.

 

[moonkitty]

Anyone who claims to practice divination is lying, and to me lying is morally wrong.
I also consider it immoral to believe patent nonsense.

Personally I think divination is a load of hogwash.

But if a person really believes that they have speical powers and can see the future are they really lying? Or are they simply just delusional? Is being delusional the same as lying?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Anyone who claims to practice divination is lying,

How do you know?

and to me lying is morally wrong.

In all cases?

I also consider it immoral to believe patent nonsense.

 

[morningstar2651]

The Hebrew word for divination used in Deuteronomy (קס&#1501 appears in Proverbs 16:10.

Proverbs 16:10 (New American Standard Bible)


10A divine (A)decision is in the lips of the king;
His mouth should not err in judgment.

The cross reference follows...

1 Kings 3:28 (New American Standard Bible)

28When all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had handed down, they feared the king, for (A)they saw that the wisdom of God was in him to administer justice.

I'm surprised that this didn't spark more discussion. We're looking at the Bible saying that divination comes from God. This is using the same Hebrew word that appeared in Deuteronomy.

Deuteronomy 18:10-11 (New American Standard Bible)

10"There shall not be found among you anyone (A)who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one (B)who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,
11or one who casts a spell, (C)or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

 

[morningstar2651]

Personally I think divination is a load of hogwash.

But if a person really believes that they have speical powers and can see the future are they really lying? Or are they simply just delusional? Is being delusional the same as lying?

Seeing the future and forecasting are two different things.

When I watch the weather channel, I see predictions for this week's weather conditions.

National Weather Forecast - weather.com

The predictions don't always match the actual conditions, but they have a tendency to be fairly accurate.

Another example is Stormpulse. During Hurricane season, this website not only tracks Hurricanes, but tropical depressions that have potential to become hurricanes.

Meteorologists don't claim to see the future, but with the knowledge they have, they can make accurate predictions about weather conditions. Before meteorology was considered a science, it found its roots in divination.

Ancient meteorology - Google Books
Meteorology - Google Books

 

[moonkitty]

Seeing the future and forecasting are two different things.

When I watch the weather channel, I see predictions for this week's weather conditions.

National Weather Forecast - weather.com

The predictions don't always match the actual conditions, but they have a tendency to be fairly accurate.

Another example is Stormpulse. During Hurricane season, this website not only tracks Hurricanes, but tropical depressions that have potential to become hurricanes.

Meteorologists don't claim to see the future, but with the knowledge they have, they can make accurate predictions about weather conditions. Before meteorology was considered a science, it found its roots in divination.

Ancient meteorology - Google Books
Meteorology - Google Books

I don't mean forecasting the weather, or anything else that looks at current trends and try to make an educated guess about what may happen based on past trends ect...

What I think are hogwash things like reading tarot cards, palms, tea leaves, numerology, astrology ect...

 

[Penumbra]

I've never seen a reason to believe that divination can have any serious objective result or provide any substantial knowledge, so until then, I don't believe it is useful and so don't consider it unethical.

Meteorology is scientific in nature (and a little bit of an art as well). Radar is used to track storms, and the atmosphere is studied so that people can figure out patterns and how things work. Algorithms are used to predict future weather based on this collection of data. All of it is just prediction of nature based on natural physics, not metaphysics. It's no different than predicting that when you hold something up and let it go, it will fall to Earth because of gravity. The only difference is the immense number of variables, making it substantially more difficult to predict.

 

[morningstar2651]

I've never seen a reason to believe that divination can have any serious objective result or provide any substantial knowledge, so until then, I don't believe it is useful and so don't consider it unethical.

Meteorology is scientific in nature (and a little bit of an art as well). Radar is used to track storms, and the atmosphere is studied so that people can figure out patterns and how things work. Algorithms are used to predict future weather based on this collection of data. All of it is just prediction of nature based on natural physics, not metaphysics. It's no different than predicting that when you hold something up and let it go, it will fall to Earth because of gravity. The only difference is the immense number of variables, making it substantially more difficult to predict.

While that's true of the meteorology of today, it certainly wasn't true of Aristotle's meteorology. Over time, critical thinking and the scientific method eliminated methods that didn't work and those that did work were improved upon...kinda like natural selection, but with ideas rather than organisms.

However, divination may contain knowledge worth looking into. For example, augury is divination by studying animal behaviors. The Aborigines have a wealth of information gleaned from studying animal behavior over the years.

Introduction
A Precious Heritage
Indigenous Seasonal Descriptions

A good chunk of divination is humbug, which is why I lump people who earn their income fortunetelling in with Sylvia Brown, Uri Gellar, and Peter Popoff. These charlatans are only interested in money and fame. Let's add another related ethical question to the discussion:

Is it ethical to charge money for divination?

 

[Nimrauko]

Biblically, no. There's a difference between using knowledge of the occult(magic, wicca stuff like that) and biblical prophecies, guidance of the Holy Spirit etc.

The purpose of a horoscope is to gain insight into a person’s character and foretell the future. The basic belief of astrology is that planets and stars exert an influence upon our lives. Those with special knowledge—astrologers—can predict events in a person’s life. It is distressing that most major newspapers have a horoscope column, and even more distressing that many Christians read their horoscopes.

The Bible expressly forbids divination, sorcery, and hidden arts (Deuteronomy 18:10-14). God’s people are to heed God only (Deuteronomy 18:15). Any other source of guidance, information, or revelation is to be rejected outright. (See also Acts 16:16-18.) The Bible points to Jesus Christ as the only proper focus of faith (Acts 4:12; Hebrews 12:2). Our trust is in God alone, and we know that He will direct our paths (Proverbs 3:5-6). Faith in anything besides God is misplaced.

Astrology, then, opposes biblical teaching in at least two ways: it advocates faith in something other than God, and it is a form of divination. We cannot determine God's will for our lives through horoscopes. As Christians, we are to read the Bible and pray to God in order to gain wisdom and guidance. Consulting a horoscope is a violation of God's means of communicating with His children. We strongly believe that horoscopes should be rejected by Christians.



Should a Christian consult horoscopes?

No there really isnt a difference. You cant have it both ways. Its Either yes or no. Simple.

 

[Penumbra]

While that's true of the meteorology of today, it certainly wasn't true of Aristotle's meteorology. Over time, critical thinking and the scientific method eliminated methods that didn't work and those that did work were improved upon...kinda like natural selection, but with ideas rather than organisms.

However, divination may contain knowledge worth looking into. For example, augury is divination by studying animal behaviors. The Aborigines have a wealth of information gleaned from studying animal behavior over the years.

Introduction
A Precious Heritage
Indigenous Seasonal Descriptions

A good chunk of divination is humbug, which is why I lump people who earn their income fortunetelling in with Sylvia Brown, Uri Gellar, and Peter Popoff. These charlatans are only interested in money and fame. Let's add another related ethical question to the discussion:

Divination implies that it is related to the divine.

If animal patterns can be objectively shown to be useful in predicting weather, then that is a perfectly natural skill. Animals can be very sensitive, and it's often noticed that before certain catastrophes, animals leave the area. Dogs can sense things about us that are pretty unbelievable. I once learned that most dogs can know whether someone is yawning or simply opening their mouth very wide, regardless if the two actions are visibly identical.

If it is claimed that a method of prediction can show substantial results when the scientific method is applied to it, then I think it is worth looking into to see how it fares.

Is it ethical to charge money for divination?

I don't think getting wealthy and squandering it all on the self is ethical regardless of how the money was obtained.

But, if someone can provide a service that is in demand, then they have the right to charge money.

There could be two catches:
-Just like any other way of obtaining knowledge, if you know something that can be helpful to someone and decide to withhold it from them, this is arguably unethical.
-If you are a scam artist and use divination, you're selling lies, and this is also arguably unethical.

-Lyn