Disprove Calvinist Soteriology

[JLB777]

I need everything you've got to disprove Calvinist beliefs on eternal salvation. I'm looking for Bible verses more than arguments.

Calvinism or OSAS is a man made, unbiblical teaching that leads people into a lifestyle of unbelief and practicing the works of the flesh.

This teaching from Jesus, shows us that a person can indeed be "in Christ", then later, become disconnected oe removed from Christ. Jesus teaches that we are to continue in Him, which is to continue to believe, and continue to have faith in Him, so that we continue to remain in Him.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6


Those who teach the false doctrine of Calvinism, have no way to refute this plain and clear teaching from Jesus.

They must "redefine" what the words clearly mean, and try are write it off as some, parable which does not pertain to the Church.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Jesus plain says to the person who is "in Him", that they must remain or abide "in Him", as a branch must remain connected to the branch from which it draws it's sustaining "life" from.


We can no more have eternal life apart from Jesus Christ, any more than a branch can continue to grow and produce if it becomes severed from the branch it is connected to.


I actually had a person try to convince me that, "throw them into the fire, and they are burned", "really means" removed from Christian service, and not thrown into hell and burned.




JLB

 

[Thursday]

What are the conditions for salvation that it provides?

7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

1) We reap what we sow
2) IF we sow to the Spirit we reap eternal life
3) If we sow to please the flesh we will reap destruction
4) IF we do not give up we will reap eternal life

 

[Hammster]

Calvinism or OSAS is a man made, unbiblical teaching that leads people into a lifestyle of unbelief and practicing the works of the flesh.

This teaching from Jesus, shows us that a person can indeed be "in Christ", then later, become disconnected oe removed from Christ. Jesus teaches that we are to continue in Him, which is to continue to believe, and continue to have faith in Him, so that we continue to remain in Him.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6


Those who teach the false doctrine of Calvinism, have no way to refute this plain and clear teaching from Jesus.

They must "redefine" what the words clearly mean, and try are write it off as some, parable which does not pertain to the Church.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Jesus plain says to the person who is "in Him", that they must remain or abide "in Him", as a branch must remain connected to the branch from which it draws it's sustaining "life" from.


We can no more have eternal life apart from Jesus Christ, any more than a branch can continue to grow and produce if it becomes severed from the branch it is connected to.


I actually had a person try to convince me that, "throw them into the fire, and they are burned", "really means" removed from Christian service, and not thrown into hell and burned.




JLB

Calvinism doesn't teach OSAS. So, there's that.

 

[JLB777]

I need everything you've got to disprove Calvinist beliefs on eternal salvation. I'm looking for Bible verses more than arguments.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


Are you attempting to say this scripture is not true, that God won't render to each person according to his deeds?


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

This scripture plainly says that God will render to each person, according to his deeds.


It also plainly says, what He will render to those who practice righteousness, by patient continuing in doing what is right and good:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

It also says what will be rendered to those who obey unrighteousness; who do not obey the truth:

• to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath.

Why would you think this is not true, that this scripture somehow doesn't apply to the Church at Rome or anywhere else?


Paul wrote and warned us in His letters to other Churches as well.


If you are a Christian and have the Spirit, but choose to walk after the sinful desires of the flesh, in which you obey the unrighteous cravings of the flesh, rather than the righteous desires of the Spirit within, then you will receive the wages for a life spent on gratifying the deeds of the flesh, which is God's wrath; eternal death.

• 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23

• 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16

• There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

• 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6

• 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

JLB

 

[JLB777]

Calvinism doesn't teach OSAS. So, there's that.

Do you believe in OSAS?

 

[Hammster]

7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

1) We reap what we sow
2) IF we sow to the Spirit we reap eternal life
3) If we sow to please the flesh we will reap destruction
4) IF we do not give up we will reap eternal life

Then the question is, are believers in the flesh, or in the Spirit?

 

[Hammster]

Do you believe in OSAS?

Nope. Not as it's normally defined, anyway.

 

[Thursday]

Then the question is, are believers in the flesh, or in the Spirit?

No, that is not the question.

The question is:

Do our actions impact our salvation?

The answer is, according to scripture, Yes.

We reap what we sow. We don't sow what we reap.

 

[Hammster]

No, that is not the question.

The question is:

Do our actions impact our salvation?

The answer is, according to scripture, Yes.

We reap what we sow. We don't sow what we reap.

Do non-believers sow to please the Spirit?

 

[Thursday]

Do non-believers sow to please the Spirit?

When a person seeks God they are sowing to the Spirit, even if they don't yet have a full relationship or awareness of Christ.

 

[Hammster]

When a person seeks God they are sowing to the Spirit, even if they don't yet have a full relationship or awareness of Christ.

Really? Seekers get eternal life?

 

[Thursday]

Really? Seekers get eternal life?

If they endure.

Sowing to the Spirit is a process, not an event.

 

[Hammster]

If they endure.

Sowing to the Spirit is a process, not an event.

Just so I understand, unbelievers who endure get eternal life?

 

[Thursday]

Just so I understand, unbelievers who endure get eternal life?

Luke 11
10For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

11“Which of you fathers, if your son asks forf a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”



You are trying to twist my words to avoid the clear contradiction in scripture with your man made dogmas.
It won't work.

 

[Hammster]

Luke 11
10For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

11“Which of you fathers, if your son asks forf a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”



You are trying to twist my words to avoid the clear contradiction in scripture with your man made dogmas.
It won't work.

Do non-believers sow to please the Spirit?

When a person seeks God they are sowing to the Spirit, even if they don't yet have a full relationship or awareness of Christ.

I'm not twisting your words. Im trying to make sense of them.

When I asked about unbelievers, your reply was, as best I could understand, in the affirmative that they could indeed sow to please the Spirit. The conclusion is that they would have eternal life. That's what the verse says. You've posted it over and over again.

“For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:8‬ ‭NASB‬‬

You did throw in the curve ball that said it's a process, though the verse says no such thing.

 

[Thursday]

I'm not twisting your words. Im trying to make sense of them.

When I asked about unbelievers, your reply was, as best I could understand, in the affirmative that they could indeed sow to please the Spirit.

Of course they can. When an unbeliever prays for belief, are they sowing to the Spirit?

 

[Hammster]

Of course they can. When an unbeliever prays for belief, are they sowing to the Spirit?

Why would they pray for belief?

 

[Thursday]

Why would they pray for belief?

Because God's grace is reaching out to them.

 

[Hammster]

Because God's grace is reaching out to them.

I still don't see why they are praying to a god that they don't believe in.

 

[Aseyesee]

You're not going to find any Scriptures to disprove Calvinist ideas regarding eternal salvation, for Reformed theology--like all theologies--has very specific philosophical assumptions which form the foundation for its methodology in interpreting the Scriptures.

That is, you can quote proof-texts all day to the Reformed, but they will not see what appears to be so clear to others who do not assume their philosophical ideas about the nature of God, salvation, reality, etc. Rather, in every passage of Scripture that they read, they will inevitably find a resonance with their philosophical prejudices that will, in their minds at least, provide a convenient hermeneutical self-justification for what they already assume.

Now with that being said, let's be clear: this is the situation that everyone is in. The act of interpretation is inevitably an exercise in philosophy; therefore, whatever presuppositions and prejudices that one brings to the text will naturally present themselves as obvious within its pages.

So then, if a Calvinist, or anyone else claims that they have uncovered the "truth" of the Scriptures, they are self-deceived. All that they have discovered is what they have set out to find.

Only God can define what he has said; which disqualifies everyone other than him; from here we can proceed, but how do we proceed ...