Disobedience has consequences.

[Cute Tink]

Yes. Unless one is hermaphroditic or trans-gendered in such a way as the choice has been made for them at birth.

Just as a note, those have nothing to do with sexual orientation, but rather a part of sex or gender, depending on the specifics.

I guess my edit didn't get there in time: do you mean the existence of the attraction or the action of having sex itself?

 

[LostMarbels]

How do you reconcile addictions with free will?

This is the reason I stopped counseling. No one wants to hold them selves accountable to their own actions. It's always someone else's fault that they can not exhibit any self control.

For example, and the reason I quit, I had a guy that stole all his kids toys, pawned them, and stole the family car and sold it for crack; for the third time in a year.... and he comes into my office cussing out his wife asking me why she is leaving him. Really? You don't know?!!?!???!!!!!

 

[oi_antz]

With every human being, we have to be able to reconcile our actions with ourselves. At the end of the day, we have to live with our actions.

Some are able to reconcile immoral acts and go through with them, others can not, because the pain of knowing what they had done, is to overwhelming for them to face.

Decisions really are more complicated than that though, because often we do not realistically imagine what the future will be like, and because we make that mistake of imagining that choosing one option will lead to a situation that is different than what it really leads to, we can become convinced that it is a comfortable decision to make. I have in mind for an example, Ariel Castro. When he made the decision to kidnap those people, he must have imagined a different future than what became real to him in the end, and what he imagined the outcome of the option he chose to be, caused him to think that he could live with those actions. In the end, when the real outcome of that decision impacted him, he found out that he actually couldn't "live with his actions", as you have put it.

 

[LostMarbels]

Just as a note, those have nothing to do with sexual orientation, but rather a part of sex or gender, depending on the specifics.

I guess my edit didn't get there in time: do you mean the existence of the attraction or the action of having sex itself?

I have meet a man that was attracted to padlocks. How they interlinked together, the colors of them, and the mix of key locks with combination locks. I believe attraction is partly choice, partly biological.

 

[oi_antz]

It would say this part [...] biology

Do you know of any evidence for this belief, and if so, can you please reference it?

 

[LostMarbels]

Do you know of any evidence for this belief, and if so, can you please reference it?

I do not know if I can readily discuss sexuality on this forum. Because somethings are sexual in nature and may be misconstrued.

 

[bhsmte]

Decisions really are more complicated than that though, because often we do not realistically imagine what the future will be like, and because we make that mistake of imagining that choosing one option will lead to a situation that is different than what it really leads to, we can become convinced that it is a comfortable decision to make. I have in mind for an example, Ariel Castro. When he made the decision to kidnap those people, he must have imagined a different future than what became real to him in the end, and what he imagined the outcome of the option he chose to be, caused him to think that he could live with those actions. In the end, when the real outcome of that decision impacted him, he found out that he actually couldn't "live with his actions", as you have put it.

People that can rationalize it is ok to go through behaviors like an Ariel Castro, are not in the norm when it comes to psychology. He most likely, is one who is unable to see how his actions impact other people (a sociopath) and is able to convince himself, it is ok. He was feeding a selfish need, that needed to disregard normal amounts of empathy for others.

 

[Cute Tink]

I have meet a man that was attracted to padlocks. How they interlinked together, the colors of them, and the mix of key locks with combination locks. I believe attraction is partly choice, partly biological.

I would argue that it is definitely choice to have sex, but largely not a choice in who you find attractive. For example, someone who is 100% straight could not force himself to find men attractive. However, for many people, they are not strictly 100% hetero- or homosexual necessarily and I think that impacts what some people see as "choosing" the attraction.

 

[bhsmte]

I have meet a man that was attracted to padlocks. How they interlinked together, the colors of them, and the mix of key locks with combination locks. I believe attraction is partly choice, partly biological.

How is attraction choice?

Do you think people one day just choose to be heterosexual or homosexual?

 

[Davian]

This is the reason I stopped counseling. No one wants to hold them selves accountable to their own actions. It's always someone else's fault that they can not exhibit any self control.

For example, and the reason I quit, I had a guy that stole all his kids toys, pawned them, and stole the family car and sold it for crack; for the third time in a year.... and he comes into my office cussing out his wife asking me why she is leaving him. Really? You don't know?!!?!???!!!!!

How do you reconcile addictions with free will? Did you think (in your role as a counsellor) that the man in your story could have simply willed himself out of that situation?

 

[oi_antz]

Ok, so since you're a Christian, I'm guessing that you believe your god - described as omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent - created the universe. A universe in which free-willed people like I, and countless other people from all walks of life, never choose to molest children, thereby causing them suffering.

Since it's presumably possible for such a god to create everyone with the same trait as I - the inability to molest children - you can only conclude that this god most desires the suffering of children that are molested.

What I believe about the way He created the world really is not based on any reliable knowledge, so I must admit it is all based on my imagination. However, since we agree that my perspective on the origins of the present state of the world is described in the book of Genesis, and that I draw conclusions about the truth based on that story, then I tend to view the origin of human civilisation in two most likely ways, according to that story:

1. Considering literal Gensis account of creation, mankind was plonked in paradise without any previous experience, and therefore did not have any idea that molesting children could even be desirable. This knowledge was discovered when he bagan to seek and obtain the knowledge of good and evil.

2. Considering that humankind has evolved from life as described by theories of evolition, over millions of years, at some point mankind began to know about good and evil, and has decided that it is evil to molest children. However, this does not imply that the desire was not experienced and acted on before the knowledge of good and evil was pursued.

I don't actually know which of these ideas is more accurate, so I tend to consider them both as being possible and equally plausible, yet do not commit to one over the other as the basis of my understanding. Hopefull this can help you to welcome my perspectives more, and to even check the reliability of our assumptions before you jump in with conclusions.

What I do know however, is that God probably does not desire the suffering of children, based on a simple linking of two statements made by Jesus, whom I consider to have always spoken truthfully, and thses words no less containing truth:

"For when you did it to the least of these, my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me". "Depart from me, because when I was [suffering and needed your help] [you abandoned me]."

"How can you say that you have not already seen the father? Whoever has seen the son has seen the father!"

Therefore, Jesus expresses the will of God, that we should treat others as though we would want to be treated ourselves, and even appeals to our conscience whe He says we are treating Him when we treat others.

Therefore, no, I believe the desire to molest children is not a desire of God, but of someone who does not value the life of a child as they should.

 

[bhsmte]

This is the reason I stopped counseling. No one wants to hold them selves accountable to their own actions. It's always someone else's fault that they can not exhibit any self control.

For example, and the reason I quit, I had a guy that stole all his kids toys, pawned them, and stole the family car and sold it for crack; for the third time in a year.... and he comes into my office cussing out his wife asking me why she is leaving him. Really? You don't know?!!?!???!!!!!

What you describe, are classic addictive behaviors.

 

[oi_antz]

People that can rationalize it is ok to go through behaviors like an Ariel Castro, are not in the norm when it comes to psychology. He most likely, is one who is unable to see how his actions impact other people (a sociopath) and is able to convince himself, it is ok. He was feeding a selfish need, that needed to disregard normal amounts of empathy for others.

You can draw a straight line of that behaviour right through to omnivorous humans who do the same to animals, then take it further to vegetarians who do the same to plants. Please explain whether you think this is a bad view to take, and why.

 

[oi_antz]

I do not know if I can readily discuss sexuality on this forum. Because somethings are sexual in nature and may be misconstrued.

Ok, but can you just answer the question? Do you base your belief on evidence, and if so, can you please tell me where you have found that evidence? (Re: that sexual attraction is biological).

 

[bhsmte]

You can draw a straight line of that behaviour right through to omnivorous humans who do the same to animals, then take it further to vegetarians who do the same to plants. Please explain whether you think this is a bad view to take, and why.

What specific behavior towards animals and plants are you talking about?

 

[oi_antz]

How is attraction choice?

Do you think people one day just choose to be heterosexual or homosexual?

I do. It is about being comfortable with the ideas. That can be developed, and it can get so intense that it can seem difficult to undevelop them. But there are guys who look like girls, and guys who are attracted to girls will find them attractive. It's suddenly not so attractive once they realise what they like is something they aren't comfortable with. What do you make of that?

 

[oi_antz]

What specific behavior towards animals and plants are you talking about?

People who are aware of animal abuses, yet they continue to eat meat produced that way.

 

[bhsmte]

I do. It is about being comfortable with the ideas. That can be developed, and it can get so intense that it can seem difficult to undevelop them. But there are guys who look like girls, and guys who are attracted to girls will find them attractive. It's suddenly not so attractive once they realise what they like is something they aren't comfortable with. What do you make of that?

I have to tell you, I have a hard time making much sense of many of your posts. They seem to be "out there" and don't make a lot of sense to me.

Can you reword that?

 

[bhsmte]

People who are aware of animal abuses, yet they continue to eat meat produced that way.

You put that behavior on the same level as someone who kidnaps girls and keeps them captive for years? You can't be serious.

 

[LostMarbels]

In being careful as to how I speak, I think men find youth attractive. You take an 18 year old as compared to a attractive 40 year old women, most men will be attracted to the teen. Taking the biological into account I think youth = fertile. The same can be said with prepubescence. Take the same 18 yr old teen in the same pose shaven, and not shaven. More men will be attracted to the shaven picture. Also if one was to take a truly prepubescent girl, doll her up to look more grown up, men would find her attractive believing they are of legal age. The attraction is there, they find it reprehensible because it is a child. As they should. A SO does not differentiate.

On the social side of this. the hyper sexualisation of youths perpetuates promiscuity in children. This has an inherent affect of making children not yet capable of understanding sex, sexually inquisitive. While they may not understand completely what their actions are they may be more inclined to find out what sex is, and or their sexuality. One thing I never understood is why does an 8 year old need to be in as small of a 2 piece bathing suite you can find? Or have skin tight short shorts that say "Little Hottie" across their butt? Why is a child twerking? Grinding? Why at this age have they ever even saw such things?