Disobedience has consequences.

[ToddNotTodd]

To be honest Todd, if it is possible for someone else to do it, I really don't know why you think it would be something that I would never ever do under any circumstances. What makes me different to that person, if not for circumstances, and being the result of circumstances over time?

Sooo, you're saying that you could see yourself molesting a young girl? Or no?

Personally, it's something that I would never do...

 

[Cute Tink]

To be honest Todd, if it is possible for someone else to do it, I really don't know why you think it would be something that I would never ever do under any circumstances. What makes me different to that person, if not for circumstances, and being the result of circumstances over time?

Honestly, if there were a gun to my head, I'd rather take the bullet than do such a disgusting thing to a child.

 

[oi_antz]

Sooo, you're saying that you could see yourself molesting a young girl? Or no?

Personally, it's something that I would never do...

What stops you from doing it? Lack of desire or too much moral belief? I have wondered actually whether we should talk about suicide bombing instead, to be less offensive. I think both desire and morality are developed over time, and I do not see what makes one person do different things from another, besides the life they have had having caused them to be comfortable about what they do. I might be wrong about that, but let's see what you reckon.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

What stops you from doing it? Lack of desire or too much moral belief? I have wondered actually whether we should talk about suicide bombing instead, to be less offensive. I think both desire and morality are developed over time, and I do not see what makes one person do different things from another, besides the life they have had having caused them to be comfortable about what they do. I might be wrong about that, but let's see what you reckon.

What I reckon is that you're not answering my question for some reason.

But that's fine. I'll continue using myself as the example. Like I said, I'll never molest a child. I'm like the majority of people who live and die without ever dreaming of doing such a thing.

The question is... do you believe I, and everyone else who looks upon child molestation with disgust, have free will?

 

[oi_antz]

Honestly, if there were a gun to my head, I'd rather take the bullet than do such a disgusting thing to a child.

Thank you. I feel that way too.

What I reckon is that you're not answering my question for some reason.

Me too. But I know it is an uncomfortable example you have chosen to use. I wish you will be more considerate, but nonetheless, if you want to reveal the truth about it..

But that's fine. I'll continue using myself as the example. Like I said, I'll never molest a child. I'm like the majority of people who live and die without ever dreaming of doing such a thing.

The question is... do you believe I, and everyone else who looks upon child molestation with disgust, have free will?

Can you please describe to me what you think causes someone to develop a desire rather than a disgust? - And, please confirm while you do this, that you think it is impossible for you to develop a desire rather than disgust?

 

[oi_antz]

Sooo, you're saying that you could see yourself molesting a young girl? Or no?

Here is an answer for you Todd: I don't want to picture it. But, my logic tells me that given the necessary path in life, it would be possible. Praise God I have had a different path! But there are people who take that path, and that is who they become.

This is the point though: is there anything that one person cannot do, that another can, given necessary time and circumstances? (regarding will).

 

[Colter]

Have you seen a man resurrect before? Be real, have you?

I haven't but the apostles did, they saw Lazarus after he was supposed to be dead. But even still, the apostles didn't believe in the resurrection right away. After they saw the resurrected Jesus on several occasions they then presumably thought resurrection was logical.

 

[Cute Tink]

What stops you from doing it? Lack of desire or too much moral belief?

Just taking on this question as a side note.

I would say that I have a strong moral opinion about it based on my personal feelings on the issue. I find even the thought of such an act to be disgusting, but I also feel very strongly against hurting another person, let alone a child, anyway. I believe that hurting people is wrong, in general, and even more wrong against those who cannot defend themselves. I don't know whether it was specifically instilled by society, more a position taught by my family or the schools I went to.

I would like to hope that, should I have been raised in different circumstances, that I would still not think this was acceptable.

 

[oi_antz]

I would like to hope that, should I have been raised in different circumstances, that I would still not think this was acceptable.

Thank you. This bit that I quoted here, although you said that this is your hope, what do you personally believe is the realistic expectation? I know it is close to the discussion we have about those who are raised in a Muslim culture being most likely to be Muslim, Hindu = Hindu, Christian = Christian etc. Are we more than just a product of our environment, and if so, why and to what extent?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Can you please describe to me what you think causes someone to develop a desire rather than a disgust? - And, please confirm while you do this, that you think it is impossible for you to develop a desire rather than disgust?

We can discuss all that after you answer the question:

Do you believe that people like myself, who find the idea of child molestation anathema, have free will?

 

[oi_antz]

We can discuss all that after you answer the question:

Do you believe that people like myself, who find the idea of child molestation anathema, have free will?

At this time, I do believe so, yes.

 

[Cute Tink]

Thank you. This bit that I quoted here, although you said that this is your hope, what do you personally believe is the realistic expectation?

Yes, I do think it is realistic, otherwise we would be more predictably carbon copies of our parents and society. As you will no doubt agree, most of society are not child molesters, rapists or murderers, yet there are those among us who do become those, even in families with multiple children who don't go that route and well-off families. More below.

I know it is close to the discussion we have about those who are raised in a Muslim culture being most likely to be Muslim, Hindu = Hindu, Christian = Christian etc. Are we more than just a product of our environment, and if so, why and to what extent?

Again, while I do agree that most people raised under a particular religion are likely to stick to that religion, there are many who don't. Environment alone is not the entirety of who a person turns out to be, though it does influence each person. Given that people have been debating nature vs. nurture on so many subjects for so long, clearly it is not as simple as an individual within a certain environment is going to do X.

 

[LostMarbels]

So have you questioned the resurrection of Jesus?

I question every aspect of my belief system. This is why I am so grounded.

 

[oi_antz]

Yes, I do think it is realistic, otherwise we would be more predictably carbon copies of our parents and society. As you will no doubt agree, most of society are not child molesters, rapists or murderers, yet there are those among us who do become those, even in families with multiple children who don't go that route and well-off families. More below.



Again, while I do agree that most people raised under a particular religion are likely to stick to that religion, there are many who don't. Environment alone is not the entirety of who a person turns out to be, though it does influence each person. Given that people have been debating nature vs. nurture on so many subjects for so long, clearly it is not as simple as an individual within a certain environment is going to do X.

It is a mistake to think a person's beliefs should be a carbon copy. Attitudes such as rebellion would cause a cycle of opposing beliefs. Yet, a rebellious person probably learned to be that way due to their life experiences.

 

[Cute Tink]

It is a mistake to think a person's beliefs should be a carbon copy. Attitudes such as rebellion would cause a cycle of opposing beliefs. Yet, a rebellious person probably learned to be that way due to their life experiences.

Thus I do think it is a realistic expectation that I would still believe it wrong to do it.

 

[oi_antz]

Thus I do think it is a realistic expectation that I would still believe it wrong to do it.

How do you explain then that some people become that way?

 

[GrimKingGrim]

I question every aspect of my belief system. This is why I am so grounded.

So what was the thought process behind you accepting a resurrection? And did Dionysus resurrect as well?

 

[GrimKingGrim]

I haven't but the apostles did, they saw Lazarus after he was supposed to be dead. But even still, the apostles didn't believe in the resurrection right away. After they saw the resurrected Jesus on several occasions they then presumably thought resurrection was logical.

So you're to believe every ancient writing on resurrection?

 

[oi_antz]

I question every aspect of my belief system.

Not all at the same time, surely? (I must clasp the thought of how this ties into current topic with Todd & Tink..)

 

[Colter]

So you're to believe every ancient writing on resurrection?

No, just the true ones.