Disobedience has consequences.

[oi_antz]

There may be initial attraction based on early observations of another person of the same sex. Some men can dress as women and on first glance, look very attractive. But, when a heterosexual discovers the person is a male, they have no desire to take it beyond that, because they are not homosexual.

That's an interesting way to look at it, thanks. What then do you think is the difference, if someone is physically attracted to the appearance but not attracted to the sexuality? Is it the prospect of the limitation of the types of activities they can engage in, or a distaste for the nature of those activities? I can rather understand someone who is strongly opposed to same-sex relationships and activities, in this situation, it would not be just a limit of their desire for that person, but the beginning of the opposite. What shall we say, a disgust of the ideas that might have been desirable when they were only partly informed?

 

[oi_antz]

Let me ask you this:

With the social disdain of being a homosexual, why would someone choose to be one?

Cost is affordable and reward is great enough. Same reason that we would buy a flash car rather than a basic one.

 

[LostMarbels]

What do you think is the point of honouring a social norm then, since it has been demonstrated to sometimes not be right?

I do not believe the social norm should define a Christian. Our standards should be as Christ demonstrated for us.

 

[oi_antz]

I do not believe the social norm should define a Christian. Our standards should be as Christ demonstrated for us.

Can you please define the purpose of your comment about deviance then? I seem to have taken that the wrong way.

 

[LostMarbels]

Do you know of a real example? This sounds like a Mexican Standoff, is that what you mean? Or are you describing someone taking a risk on the hope that they will not get caught?

I thought this to be self evident. Look at "to catch a predator". They know they might very well walk right into a police trap, yet they go. Anyone in America knows that if they commit murder they face death.

 

[LostMarbels]

Can you please define the purpose of your comment about deviance then? I seem to have taken that the wrong way.

I thought I did. Did you see this post buddy?

#987

 

[dlamberth]

This is not heaven.

It could be.

God's highest priority is not keeping us suffering here.

That's why we were taught the importance of Love, Compassion and Serving those in need. We CAN re-leave our own suffering. Many hints on how to do just that have been offered.

.

 

[SkyWriting]

It could be.
That's why we were taught the importance of Love, Compassion and Serving those in need. We CAN re-leave our own suffering. Many hints on how to do just that have been offered.
.

It's like a gold fish wishing away all the wetness.
A baby will spit up on you after feeding it. Then it all comes out the other end.
That goes on for months. Your version of Heaven is enjoying that...which can be
done. But it'll never actually be heaven. That baby may still die that night.
The hint's won't fix that grave problem. I've stood at that baby-grave.
Just focus on yourself....then you have that drug problem crop up.

 

[Davian]

Cost is affordable and reward is great enough. Same reason that we would buy a flash car rather than a basic one.

So those gay teenagers that commit suicide following the reaction of friends, family, and peers; did they choose the flashy car or the basic one?

 

[LostMarbels]

So those gay teenagers that commit suicide following the reaction of friends, family, and peers; did they choose the flashy car or the basic one?

So you think gay teenagers should kill them selves rather than buy a flashy car?

 

[oi_antz]

I thought I did. Did you see this post buddy?

#987

Yes, I saw that. Are you suggesting that pederasty was deviance? I thought you were saying that in Ancient Greece it was not a deviance. Now it seems that you are saying Ancient Greece deviated from society, whereas I thought the definition of deviance is measured by social norms. Therefore I viewed that pederasty was not deviant within that Ancient Greek society. Can you please clarify what you meant with this regard?

 

[LostMarbels]

Yes, I saw that. Are you suggesting that pederasty was deviance? I thought you were saying that in Ancient Greece it was not a deviance. Now it seems that you are saying Ancient Greece deviated from society, whereas I thought the definition of deviance is measured by social norms. Therefore I viewed that pederasty was not deviant within that Ancient Greek society. Can you please clarify what you meant with this regard?

Unfortunately without a absolute authoritative set of morals, morality becomes subjective, and conditioned by cultural and/or historical stratification of a said society. While one group of peoples may accept a social norm, another set of individuals could find that "norm" reprehensible. We see this for example in ancient Greece in the form of pederasty. Where prepubescent boys engaged in sexual acts with older men. Ancient Greece not only encouraged pederasty, they institutionalized it. They considered it as a way for men to instill virtue in young boys. Although the sexual side of the relationship was the most infamous part of it, it was also a spiritual relationship as well. Young girls were not regularly molested, because that would destroy her virtue which was to remain intact until she was given in marriage. But a salve is a slave and it did happen with non-citizens.

To us this is disgusting. There are nations on this earth that will give away children as young as 8 into marriage. So as I said, without an iron clad set of morality anything can be deemed permissible.

 

[oi_antz]

So those gay teenagers that commit suicide following the reaction of friends, family, and peers; did they choose the flashy car or the basic one?

In this analogy, they chose the flashy one, because it cost more. They really did not want a basic one, even though their friends and family wanted them to want a basic one. Their friends and family have some attitude problem that causes them to bully people who like flash cars. It is very, very sad. Please don't think of me that way. I would just as easily say they chose the basic one, if the basic one came at a higher price. Point is, they were prepared to pay a higher price for the one they wanted. But in the case of what you describe, it ended up costing more than expected.

 

[oi_antz]

In this analogy, they chose the flashy one, because it cost more. They really did not want a basic one, even though their friends and family wanted them to want a basic one. Their friends and family have some attitude problem that causes them to bully people who like flash cars. It is very, very sad. Please don't think of me that way. I would just as easily say they chose the basic one, if the basic one came at a higher price. Point is, they were prepared to pay a higher price for the one they wanted. But in the case of what you describe, it ended up costing more than expected.

By the way, I was meaning to demonstrate that their decision is normal human behaviour, of being prepared to spend in order to get what we want.

 

[oi_antz]

Unfortunately without a absolute authoritative set of morals, morality becomes subjective, and conditioned by cultural and/or historical stratification of a said society. While one group of peoples may accept a social norm, another set of individuals could find that "norm" reprehensible. We see this for example in ancient Greece in the form of pederasty. Where prepubescent boys engaged in sexual acts with older men. Ancient Greece not only encouraged pederasty, they institutionalized it. They considered it as a way for men to instill virtue in young boys. Although the sexual side of the relationship was the most infamous part of it, it was also a spiritual relationship as well. Young girls were not regularly molested, because that would destroy her virtue which was to remain intact until she was given in marriage. But a salve is a slave and it did happen with non-citizens.

To us this is disgusting. There are nations on this earth that will give away children as young as 8 into marriage. So as I said, without an iron clad set of morality anything can be deemed permissible.

Thanks, can you please explain what this means:

I want it duly noted that a deviant is a deviant. Regardless of sexuality.

.. as definition of deviant is:

"departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behaviour."

.. which you have given Ancient Greece as making pederasty a usual and accepted standard in social and sexual behaviour, yet you are now saying that it is deviant, although by definition it seems to not be in that society.

.. Are you perhaps saying that a society that establishes different social norms from the rest of the world is deviant?

 

[oi_antz]

I thought this to be self evident. Look at "to catch a predator". They know they might very well walk right into a police trap, yet they go. Anyone in America knows that if they commit murder they face death.

Ok, thanks. Then yes, it is a gamble they are making. bhstme described this, I think accurately:

That is because abnormal psychology allows stronger motivations that overwhelm the potential consequences.

.. although the threat that you described seems to not be a sure threat. There is a possibility that they will get away with it, they are banking on that possibility, and therefore gambling. I had read your comment under the assumption that it was a sure threat, and the person was making a conscious decision to murder when knowing it surely will cost them, which describes a very peculiar person.

 

[LostMarbels]

Thanks, can you please explain what this means:


.. as definition of deviant is:

"departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behaviour."

.. which you have given Ancient Greece as making pederasty a usual and accepted standard in social and sexual behaviour, yet you are now saying that it is deviant, although by definition it seems to not be in that society.

.. Are you perhaps saying that a society that establishes different social norms from the rest of the world is deviant?

I'm saying that without a solid base for our morals anything can be found moral. For example, the age of consent is 18 in America. In other parts of the world at is at the age of a girls first period. That could be as young as 7 or 8 years old. So without a basis for morality, you could just go along with the flow of what culture you so chose. I believe Christian should hold themselves accoutable to the standards set forth by Jesus, not society.

 

[LostMarbels]

Ok, thanks. Then yes, it is a gamble they are making. bhstme described this, I think accurately:

That is because abnormal psychology allows stronger motivations that overwhelm the potential consequences.

.. although the threat that you described seems to not be a sure threat. There is a possibility that they will get away with it, they are banking on that possibility, and therefore gambling. I had read your comment under the assumption that it was a sure threat, and the person was making a conscious decision to murder when knowing it surely will cost them, which describes a very peculiar person.

That is very true

 

[oi_antz]

I'm saying that without a solid base for our morals anything can be found moral. For example, the age of consent is 18 in America. In other parts of the world at is at the age of a girls first period. That could be as young as 7 or 8 years old. So without a basis for morality, you could just go along with the flow of what culture you so chose. I believe Christian should hold themselves accoutable to the standards set forth by Jesus, not society.

Ok, thanks. I would like to be careful though about using the word deviant that way, but if what you are saying is that anything that deviates from the norm defined by Jesus Christ is deviant because He defines absolute morality, I accept that. But you should specify that when you say it because it isn't included in the immediate meaning of the word.

 

[oi_antz]

That is very true

Not to say that sort of person doesn't exist. I accrued plenty of detention in school because it did not deter me, and I was not gambling. I wonder if someone might be motivated enough to kill when the consequence is certain. Eg, a martyr who might assassinate someone on political grounds, knowing they cannot escape.