Disobedience has consequences.

[bhsmte]

It's amazing that such a dysfunctional monster was able to create friendly moral people.

If God did create humans, he actually created people quite capable of both performing moral acts and very immoral acts.

 

[Catherineanne]

If God did create humans, he actually created people quite capable of both performing moral acts and very immoral acts.

Indeed so. But the suggestion is that whereas a good God can create people capable of great evil, an evil God cannot create people capable of great good.

And the reason is simple; any God at all cannot create a being which is morally superior to himself. Therefore, we can find the greatest example of altruism, generosity and kindness to be found anywhere in humanity, and even that person will fall short of God's goodness.

 

[Catherineanne]

It's called a personification

That is no God. That is our sister, who is a beautiful angel. She is no-one to be afraid of.

 

[Davian]

Yes, Who does He think He is?

Someone he was not, apparently.

 

[bhsmte]

Indeed so. But the suggestion is that whereas a good God can create people capable of great evil, an evil God cannot create people capable of great good.

And the reason is simple; any God at all cannot create a being which is morally superior to himself. Therefore, we can find the greatest example of altruism, generosity and kindness to be found anywhere in humanity, and even that person will fall short of God's goodness.

I understand your logic.

But here is the thing, if a God exists, I don't think anyone on earth, really has a handle on what this God is capable of. I realize some think they do, but it is really all speculation.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

He didn't create it that way. They ate herbs. It was a result of the fall and inviting the devil in. In the new world the lamb will lay with the wolve again.

So he made it so they still kill things. Despite no evidence of this ever being true

 

[GrimKingGrim]

They sinned within no time and they changed at once. Why is that so hard to believe? Lol even most Christians don't believe that but I do.

What do you mean why is that so hard??

Just *POOF* "I'm carnivorous now" the magic woo woo you believe in is looney

 

[Catherineanne]

I understand your logic.

But here is the thing, if a God exists, I don't think anyone on earth, really has a handle on what this God is capable of. I realize some think they do, but it is really all speculation.

Quite right. But we do know which direction to go in; either towards extreme evil or towards extreme altrusim.

Either that, or we settle for a god whose morality is less secure than our own, and what kind of god would that be?

 

[GrimKingGrim]

That is no God. That is our sister, who is a beautiful angel. She is no-one to be afraid of.

Wait what? Oh you mean Death, No, Death is the one true unchanging.

 

[HatGuy]

Well yes I can see that how Jesus died is not as important as the resurrection. However if Jesus died by falling off a cliff then his story would have been a far less dramatic or political one.Especially within a society in which sacrifice was held sacred.

Well I'm not saying the resurrection is more important than the death, or the death more important than the resurrection, only that there is more than just his death to consider. For example, the recapitulation theory of atonement takes into account his birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension as all part of the atoning work. You're critiquing only one part of his atoning work through only a small bit of only one lens.

If Jesus died by falling off a cliff, yes the story would have been far less dramatic. I don't quite get your point though. But what we can see, however, is that the self-righteousness of mankind is what put Jesus on the cross. Politics were all intertwined with that.

 

[bhsmte]

Quite right. But we do know which direction to go in; either towards extreme evil or towards extreme altrusim.

Either that, or we settle for a god whose morality is less secure than our own, and what kind of god would that be?

Why would you need to go to extremes?

 

[Catherineanne]

Wait what? Oh you mean Death, No, Death is the one true unchanging.

Death changes all the time. Try again. : )

 

[Catherineanne]

Why would you need to go to extremes?

In relation to a Deity? Because nobody wants a mediocre God. Or I would think not, anyway. YMMV, of course.

 

[HatGuy]

It's called a personification

Personifying meaninglessnes is poetic, sure, but in a debate it kind of makes it look like you actually think meaninglessness has some kind of personality and will and purpose. It's interesting to me how pretty much everyone who believes in no God but in some kind of universal force of whatever kind cannot describe that force without personifying it. Is that a dead giveaway that, actually, God as a person is self-evident? I wonder. Try describing it without using personification, that would be interesting.

 

[bhsmte]

In relation to a Deity? Because nobody wants a mediocre God. Or I would think not, anyway. YMMV, of course.

Just the fact that some believe God created the universe and everything in it, would appear to me, to support this God was not mediocre.

 

[bhsmte]

Death changes all the time. Try again. : )

How does death change all the time?

 

[Messy]

So he made it so they still kill things. Despite no evidence of this ever being true

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/carnivores.html
Simosuchus the vegetarian crocodile
Other evidence that carnivorous reptiles once had teeth for eating vegetation comes from the fossil remains of Simosuchus.

for more information read:
A Broccoli-Eating Croc?(fossil discovery) Discover: Sept, 2000

There is evidence that Piranha were once vegetarian as well. (Piranha by David Catchpoole, Ph.D. Creation Ex Nihilo 22(4):20–23,September–November 2000)

 

[Catherineanne]

How does death change all the time?

Every death is different. Like birth, no two are ever the same.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Death changes all the time. Try again. : )

Death has never changed. But if that is what you wish to believe. He is uncaring nevertheless.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Personifying meaninglessnes is poetic, sure, but in a debate it kind of makes it look like you actually think meaninglessness has some kind of personality and will and purpose. It's interesting to me how pretty much everyone who believes in no God but in some kind of universal force of whatever kind cannot describe that force without personifying it. Is that a dead giveaway that, actually, God as a person is self-evident? I wonder. Try describing it without using personification, that would be interesting.

I don't believe in a universal force. I don't believe it has a meaning. And the words I would use are meaningless and vast; incomprehensibly large, chaotic. The universe is the universe.