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Disobedience has consequences.

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He didn't create it that way. They ate herbs. It was a result of the fall and inviting the devil in. In the new world the lamb will lay with the wolve again.

LOL.

And where are all the fossil or skeletal records of these grass eating wolves,lions,sharks etc?There should be thousands.If not millions.
 
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GillDouglas

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* Paul never claimed his letters were inspired, the church did. The church even said it's own councils were "inerrant". In fact when the OT books were all redone in Babylon the Hebrew authors made no claim of writing the Word of God. Those books were pseudo biographical works for spiritual instruction. After the return to Israel the people once again fell under bondage of the priestly yoke.

The original gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven was peached to the Jews, who were to be the teachers to the world (the 4 corners of the earth) but they rejected that gospel and killed Jesus. After the ascension the gospel changed.
Looks like everything went according to God's plan. What you perceive as the works of man I see a God's sovereignty. There is not one thing that happens that He hadn't already preordained.
 
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Colter

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Looks like everything went according to God's plan. What you perceive as the works of man I see a God's sovereignty. There is not one thing that happens that He hadn't already preordained.

Not true, the books of the Bible show many occasions where man did not do what was hoped for. According to this way of thinking Jesus was just pretending to try to reach the Jews all along.
 
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GillDouglas

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Not true, the books of the Bible show many occasions where man did not do what was hoped for. According to this way of thinking Jesus was just pretending to try to reach the Jews all along.
You just said that the fallible works of man were not to be trusted. If we believe God is the Author of this world, the Creator of all things, then there is nothing that escapes His plan. Do you know what's going to happen tomorrow? No, but God does.
 
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Messy

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LOL.

And where are all the fossil or skeletal records of these grass eating wolves,lions,sharks etc?There should be thousands.If not millions.
They sinned within no time and they changed at once. Why is that so hard to believe? Lol even most Christians don't believe that but I do.
 
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Colter

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You just said that the fallible works of man were not to be trusted. If we believe God is the Author of this world, the Creator of all things, then there is nothing that escapes His plan. Do you know what's going to happen tomorrow? No, but God does.

The interpretations by man of Gods doings are limited and should be flexible and left open to scrutiny. You are confusing the will of the I AM as manifest in subordinate deity such as the Creator Son and those beneath him in power and authority such as Satan who rebelled and mislead many against the will/plan of the Father. Just because the Father inhabits eternity (timelessness) this in no way abrogates the free will of his children and consequent contingencies of subordinates in response to such.

In short, just because the Father has a will does not mean that at any given time in time that will is being followed. It is inaccurate to say that Gods plan is for man not to follow his plan.
 
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Catherineanne

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God is not a big fluffy teddy bear that is all sugar coated rainbows and hugs. There are some Christians that might preach this, but then they're changing the Bible to fit them instead of changing themselves to fit the Bible. God is just like an earthly parent who wants His children to obey. Just like a parent has a need for discipline when it comes to a child's obedience, the same applies to the big picture. We are children of God regardless of your belief, and you are not exempt from making mistakes regardless of how 'good' you think you are. If you screw up as a kid, do you not ask your parents for forgiveness? When they forgive you, do you then not except it? What causes you such heart hardheartedness that you are unwilling to treat your Heavenly Father the same?

God's wrath is real, and it will pour out on those who refuse to accept his forgiveness. God is a jealous God, and He does not want us worshiping anything over Him. If you do not believe in Him, than you believe in something else. A false idol. The new false idols of this world are money, property, self, food, celebrities, etc. When we love something worldly more than God we are living in sin. We must love God, each other, and put our faith in Him. He has chosen us, and we should be thankful. Follow the rules of the loving parent who created us, and remain obedient to the Word of God. "For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God." (1 Peter 2:15-16)

I do love a bit of nonsensical 'God as Dysfunctional Parent' theology.

Healthy parents want their children to be fulfilled and happy, not to blindly obey everything they say. Given that is not possible for healthy parents to outdo God in morality, whatever the best healthy human parent wishes and indeed achieves, God also wishes and achieves for we his children.

St Anselm for the win.
 
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Rajni

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At a far away distance, there is a place called Hell. A rebelling child set up his mind and insisted to go there. What can the loving parents do?
If the loving parent is all-knowing and all-powerful, and
therefore would know, in advance, that one of his children
would definitively end up in hell, the loving, Omniscient parent
would likely refrain from bringing said child into the world to begin
with. But this is assuming that the God in question is, indeed,
all-powerful and all-knowing. If he isn't, then please disregard
this message. :)



-
 
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Catherineanne

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He does not cast them into hell, their own choices land them there. If you go around committing crimes you go to jail. With God it is a life sentence.

The purpose of hell is twofold. 1) It is a punishment for disobedience, in other words it is prison. 2) The fear of hell is required to maintain order. Order in society can only be maintained by force or fear of force, it is the same in the spiritual realm.

No healthy parent threatens to throw their children into a fire.

See above.
 
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Catherineanne

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If the loving parent is all-knowing and all-powerful, and
therefore would know, in advance, that one of his children
would definitively end up in hell, the loving, Omniscient parent
would likely refrain from bringing said child into the world to begin
with. But this is assuming that the God in question is, indeed,
all-powerful and all-knowing. If he isn't, then please disregard
this message. :)



-

Loving parents who happen to have an open fire in their home will make sure there is ALWAYS a fireguard in place, whether their children are obedient or not. If they knew for certain that one of their children was at all likely to fall into the fire, due to fits or whatever, they would make doubly sure of the fireguard to make absolutely sure it would never, ever happen.

God's fire is of purification and refinement, not of destruction; the fire of Moses' burning bush. Life itself is in very many ways part of this refinement; after the worst that life can throw at us we have nothing to fear from God.
 
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Messy

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I do love a bit of nonsensical 'God as Dysfunctional Parent' theology.

Healthy parents want their children to be fulfilled and happy, not to blindly obey everything they say. Given that is not possible for healthy parents to outdo God in morality, whatever the best healthy human parent wishes and indeed achieves, God also wishes and achieves for we his children.

St Anselm for the win.
It's amazing that such a dysfunctional monster was able to create friendly moral people.
 
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Catherineanne

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It's amazing that such a dysfunctional monster was able to create friendly moral people.

Quite so. Absolutely impossible, in fact. : ) A vengeful God would not be capable of creating altruistic people. QED.
 
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Davian

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HannahT

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God is not a big fluffy teddy bear that is all sugar coated rainbows and hugs. There are some Christians that might preach this, but then they're changing the Bible to fit them instead of changing themselves to fit the Bible.

Personally, it blows me away when people start their points by mocking others. We both know there is no such person that describes God in this way. If you don't like the way they approach their view of God you need to use an example, and then point out the error that you see.

There is normally a journey behind stories of how God changed people's lifes, and they can come across to some as a little soft - encouraging to others. The individuals that would rather concentrate on the wrath part tend to be a bit to rigid and also seem to lack any discernment.

I don't feel that God would approve of your approach. Mocking others doesn't seem to be covered as approved behavior in the bible, so in that way you aren't obeying to well.

God is just like an earthly parent who wants His children to obey. Just like a parent has a need for discipline when it comes to a child's obedience, the same applies to the big picture. We are children of God regardless of your belief, and you are not exempt from making mistakes regardless of how 'good' you think you are. If you screw up as a kid, do you not ask your parents for forgiveness? When they forgive you, do you then not except it? What causes you such heart hardheartedness that you are unwilling to treat your Heavenly Father the same?

Again, I don't know of anyone that has ever felt they never made mistakes. So, when you start with a foolish premise like that WHY do you think people will ever listen to the rest of what you have to say?

Your approach to people is tell them that God playing whack a mole in order to ding you when you step out of line only? That he is a parent that only demands obedience, and you should be asking forgiveness when you aren't what he demands?

There is so much more to this journey - and faith - than you seem not able to comprehend.

Your running all over the place with your statements, and they don't make any sense. Your approach is condemning, and no one will truly hear the Good News with that approach. Sadly, so far you are showing hard heartedness towards your fellow man.

Is that what the bible calls you to do? Be Hard Hearted towards others? No. Once again, you aren't obeying the bible - or God - very well.

How about we include more of the scripture you used:

11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.


When you read the whole of scripture, instead of cherry picking one sentence? It tends to show you an entirely different picture than what you have presented.

Mocking others is not a show of proper respect, nor is a show of love towards the family of believers. Jesus never hurled insults! Why must you?
 
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