Discussion/Questions on new FSGs.

[MachZer0]

I suppose it depends on context. If a person entered into a debate and posted repeatedly the same thing over and over again without addressing any questions people ask them, it's obvious they are not here to debate. They are here to disrupt the thread, which is against the rules.

IN this case, that didn't happen

 

[katautumn]

IN this case, that didn't happen

 

[cantata]

yes; the Bible needs to stop being worshipped as if it WAS God, and as if God would never change His mind, and as if God cannot learn, or change, or evolve into a 'better' God.

Omniscient, and omnipotent doesn't prescribe perfection.

How can God learn if he's omniscient?

Most of the arguments for the existence of God are arguments for an infinitely perfect being. Anything less is, by definition, not God. Sorry.

 

[Athene]

I'd point out that anti-multiculturalism is a form of bigotry, and racial segregation is a form of bigotry.

If one feels 'attacked' by this, I'd assume they are either four, or ignorant of the most basic forms of human decency.

If one is ignorant to the most basic forms of human decency, well, thats a personal problem that only they can address or alleviate from personal introspection.

A bigot is an individual who is extremely partial to their own race, religion, political party and is extremely intolerant towards those who are different. Bigotry according to the dictionary is the state of mind of a bigot or the acts or beliefs characteristic of a bigot. I can't see any way using this word in a debate to describe the POV of another poster would ever be appropriate and not a flame.

 

[God-free]

A bigot is an individual who is extremely partial to their own race, religion, political party and is extremely intolerant towards those who are different. Bigotry according to the dictionary is the state of mind of a bigot or the acts or beliefs characteristic of a bigot. I can't see any way using this word in a debate to describe the POV of another poster would ever be appropriate and not a flame.

(EMPASHIS MINE)

With all due respect, you may not be able to see it but I certainly can, and others can as well.

~Barbara

 

[Athene]

(EMPASHIS MINE)

With all due respect, you may not be able to see it but I certainly can, and others can as well.

~Barbara

Go on then, show me.

 

[cantata]

A bigot is an individual who is extremely partial to their own race, religion, political party and is extremely intolerant towards those who are different. Bigotry according to the dictionary is the state of mind of a bigot or the acts or beliefs characteristic of a bigot. I can't see any way using this word in a debate to describe the POV of another poster would ever be appropriate and not a flame.

Would it be appropriate to describe someone's point of view as highly partisan towards their own race, religion, or political party, and likely to result in intolerance towards those who are different?

 

[Athene]

Would it be appropriate to describe someone's point of view as highly partisan towards their own race, religion, or political party, and likely to result in intolerance towards those who are different?

Yes, most likely it would be fine. I'm aware that the above is close to the dictionary definition of a bigot However it doesn't look like flame bait and would be a meaningful contribution to a discussion, whereas the same probably couldn't be said for the responses ''you are a bigot'' or ''your view is bigotry''.

 

[God-free]

A bigot is an individual who is extremely partial to their own race, religion, political party and is extremely intolerant towards those who are different. Bigotry according to the dictionary is the state of mind of a bigot or the acts or beliefs characteristic of a bigot. I can't see any way using this word in a debate to describe the POV of another poster would ever be appropriate and not a flame.

(EMPASHIS MINE)

With all due respect, you may not be able to see it but I certainly can, and others can as well.

~Barbara

Go on then, show me.

Show you what? This thread has gone on for over 100 posts. Several examples have been given and you've rejected them. It's doubtful that one more example will change your mind. Like I said, you may not see it but, obviously, others can.

~Barbara

 

[mpok1519]

How can God learn if he's omniscient?

Most of the arguments for the existence of God are arguments for an infinitely perfect being. Anything less is, by definition, not God. Sorry.

I always wondered that myself; if something i perfect, how does it get better?

But, I believe in an ever expanding universe; what was once considered 'all' might simply be a percentage of what 'all' wil mean tomorrow.

~heh~ I'm crazy I know.

 

[mpok1519]

Yes; I can see how pointing out one's bigotry can be helpful and valuable to discussion.

heres a scenario I suppose....

A: "Minorities have more power than whites in America."

B: "That is not only wrong, but bigotted to say, for (x) amount of reasons."

A: "I did not know (x) was true. Thank you for pointing out the error of my ways."

~shrug~

If anyone DOES have biggoted views, or is a biggot, its NOT a good thing, and the sooner that they know what kind of harm their perceptions have on the people around them in a wholistic way, the sooner they might change their biggoted ways.

I don't know why the word biggot is a flame; its a very accurate, albeit critical, way to descirbe many people who troll these forums, and the truth is never a flame, but simply, the truth.

 

[Beanieboy]

ok, sure; I won't call anyone a bigot, however, as Christ would want it, I will be quick to point out any bigotry taking place by bigots. I won't point at them and call them a bigot, but I will point at the fact that they are bigots by pointing out their bigotry.

I understand your anger. However, I find it more useful to illustrate the bigotry.

For example, when the Pharisees claimed Jesus of casting out demons in the name of Satan, he pointed out that it would be defeating Satan to do so, so either way, it can't be blamed.

When told that he was sinning for not washing his hands before eating, according to their laws of cleanliness, he said that what goes into the body passes through it, but what does into the heart does not, showing that one should be far more concerned with their soul and what is in their heart, than the dirt of their hands.

Granted, he was also harsh with the Pharisees, and called the children of the devil, vipers brood, and also got angry at the moneychangers in the temple, believers who were desecrating the temple.

If more believers stepped forward and defended the "sinners" against such Pharisees, such clear misuse of the bible, authority, arrogance, cruelty, who wouldn't know God if he sat next to them on the bus, the "sinners" wouldn't feel like its an Us vs. Them issue, and the squeaky wheels wouldn't be seen of the voice of all Christians, but as the minority that they truly are.

 

[Beanieboy]

Yes; I can see how pointing out one's bigotry can be helpful and valuable to discussion.

heres a scenario I suppose....

A: "Minorities have more power than whites in America."

B: "That is not only wrong, but bigotted to say, for (x) amount of reasons."

A: "I did not know (x) was true. Thank you for pointing out the error of my ways."

~shrug~

If anyone DOES have biggoted views, or is a biggot, its NOT a good thing, and the sooner that they know what kind of harm their perceptions have on the people around them in a wholistic way, the sooner they might change their biggoted ways.

I don't know why the word biggot is a flame; its a very accurate, albeit critical, way to descirbe many people who troll these forums, and the truth is never a flame, but simply, the truth.

Point A:
How many white people are there, percentage, in the US?
What percentage are in the House and Senate?
How many are people of color?
Is the number the same as the percentage, even when grouping the majority (people of color) into one group?

How many presidents have been nonwhite?

Clearly, they are not equally represented, and because of such, have suffered injustice historically.

In the same way that heterosexuals claim that homosexual marriage "threaten" their marriage, it simply removes the person from a place of power and priveledge, to one where they must move to a level ground, and have equality. It removes the priveledge, and removes the power, but grants the same kind equality which they are so proud of when discussing the US.

That said, specifically how do minorities have more power than whites, since the majority of people in power are white themselves? How do they implement that power?



In this way, it opens up more of a dialogue.

 

[mpok1519]

sigh. I can't debate with a Buddhist; Buddha is cool in my eyes. =)

Yet, in all of my sociological studies, there has always been an overtone of minority injustice in America; minorities are more likely to be pulled over; minorities are more likely to be charged with a crime; minorities are also discriminated against in many scrupulous ways.

I am all in accordance with what you are saying.


I always heard Jesus traveled to the east and rapped with the buddhists(remember that period undocumented, from age 15 to 30?); He never had anything negative to say, from what I hear.

 

[cantata]

Yes, most likely it would be fine. I'm aware that the above is close to the dictionary definition of a bigot However it doesn't look like flame bait and would be a meaningful contribution to a discussion, whereas the same probably couldn't be said for the responses ''you are a bigot'' or ''your view is bigotry''.

Okay, that's fair enough.

I think you're right (even if no one else does) that it's better to avoid inflammatory language.

 

[God-free]

When told that he was sinning for not washing his hands before eating, according to their laws of cleanliness, he [JESUS] said that what goes into the body passes through it, but what does into the heart does not, showing that one should be far more concerned with their soul and what is in their heart, than the dirt of their hands.

Sorry, I can't let this pass without comment.

What goes into the body does not always pass through it. Sometimes medical intervention is needed to get rid of some of the things we put into our bodies and sometimes those things can kill us. In this story Jesus' imperfection is showing.

Just sayin'.

~Barbara

 

[Fin12]

Regarding blasphemy/slandering of gods or religion.

How do satanists fair?

Not the "reverse christians" but the actual luciferians. I know that the talk about satans character in the "rock and roll" thread would have some of them very upset.

Or becuase this is a christian site, will the christian view of satan will be backed, and not the luciferian view of him?

 

[mpok1519]

I don't see whats wrong with discussing the nature of God's 'enemy'; heck, some think lucifer is just a needed pawn in God's game.

 

[Beanieboy]

sigh. I can't debate with a Buddhist; Buddha is cool in my eyes. =)

Yet, in all of my sociological studies, there has always been an overtone of minority injustice in America; minorities are more likely to be pulled over; minorities are more likely to be charged with a crime; minorities are also discriminated against in many scrupulous ways.

I am all in accordance with what you are saying.


I always heard Jesus traveled to the east and rapped with the buddhists(remember that period undocumented, from age 15 to 30?); He never had anything negative to say, from what I hear.

For what it matters, there are times when I have two wolves inside me: one who tells me that I should illuminate the darkness, to make it disappear, and another wolf who tells me to simply bite his head off, because he deserves it.

The one who wins, who gets stronger, is the one I feed.

It's not easy.

I can't imagine Jesus saying, "Hey! Prostitute! That's just gross! You're going to hell! Well, you are!! I'm not! I'm the Son of God! I've never sinned. Turn or burn, lady!"
I can't imagine him using the phrase "homosexual lifestyle", or arguing with people that they should change their orientation, or marry a woman, because he would actually talk to them, listen to them, hear their stories, even some of those who have gone through "ex-gay" therapy, only to find out that they had been lied to, and are often even worse off than when they started.
I can't imagine him being vulgar, telling his flock to worry about the speck in their brother's eye while ignoring the sequoia in their own. I can't imagine him encouraging "tough love" or being concerned about being too loving, too gentle, to understanding, or too compassionate.

 

[Beanieboy]

There is some serious ugliness being posted, but I think it is important for it to be posted, just as it was important to record the words of the Pharisees. People need to see how such Pharisees treat the "sinners", and ask if they are truly acting in the Spirit of Jesus. They must look at their claims, and see if they are truthful, or fair. They must see what is inflicted on the target, all in the name of God, and the false worship of The Bible as an Idol itself, where law trumps love. It is important to see the Pharisees for whom they are, and the only way to do that is to allow them to speak, and let their own words condemn them.

As I said on the I'm Sorry thread, the apologies offered me healing, and I was thankful. And it is from such spiritual abuse that these injuries come from, and scars with strengthen and thicken the skin.