Discontinue Cross as Christian Symbol?

[copticorthodoxy]

the cross is a symbol for the christianty in all the world , and all the churches which based on the apostolic teachings like the oriental orthodox , eastern orthodox and catholic use the cross as symbol ,the cross remind us with what the lord did for us on the cross .
lets look to this verses which show how the cross is important , i know it has a spirtual meaning but we can't ignore the important of the cross as a symbol
- we use the cross in every service
1Cr 1:18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Luk 14:27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

+the cross is a symbol for the victory which happened on the cross
+ from the cross the people know that we belong to Jesus which was crucified.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

It is by the Crucifixion that we are saved. How can anyone even consider that. I would rather crucified myself than give it up.

I'm with you. I would rather wear the crown of martyrdom than give in to those who would take away the salvation of the Cross. That would be equivalent to putting a pinch of incense on the pagan alter.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

It is by the Crucifixion that we are saved. How can anyone even consider that. I would rather crucified myself than give it up.

I'm with you. I would rather wear the crown of martyrdom than give in to those who would take away the salvation of the Cross. That would be equivalent to putting a pinch of incense on the pagan alter.

Ora pro nobis.

 

[repentant]

Well considering the OT prophesizes the use of the Cross as a mark to idenify Christians (the letter Tau), how can we abandon it?

 

[Melethiel]

Discontinue Cross as Christian symbol? Pure hogwash! Crucifixes make the best jewelry.

 

[copticorthodoxy]

i recommend all of you to read this article , it is about the cross
http://www.coptichymns.org/module-pagesetter-viewpub-tid-1-pid-607.html

 

[Torah613]

Considering its history as 1) an item of pagan idolatry and 2) its use in the torture and crucifixion of countless lives, should we discontinue venerating the cross as a symbol of Christianity? Still, even if all the Christian denominations/sects/organizations could agree to discontinue, what a job that would be to remove ALL items containing crosses (paintings, steeples...). Also, what would we replace it with (if we chose to replace it)? The ICTHUS fish? A dove of peace? I know some (or all of you) are going to say what an impossible job it would be, therefore, why even consider it. As for me, no crosses of any kind.

~Tim

By the same logic we must give up the Trinity as it is prefigured by numerous religions who have some notion of "one god in three persons."

We must also give up the virgin birth as this is prefigured by numerous pagan traditions.

We must also give up the golden rule, ethics, etc. etc. etc. which were all prefigured around the year 500 b.c. by the teachings of the budha.

Or we could take another route and realize that it is not just individuals who can become sanctified, but the whole of Creation. God can also use other religions as a bridge to the True Faith--by teaching some form of truth therein. The Cross was a horrible means of torture which was sanctified by the sacrifice of Christ.

Joe Zollars

 

[vinoth316]

hi

If v drop the cross, v have to drop many things.
1. Let us drop christmas(as most probably jesus was not born on that day)
2. Let us drop easter(it was used to celebrate the birth of pagan goddess Asheroth)
3. Let us drop good friday(if Jesus died for 3 full days and 3 full nights- as this is the sign of Jonah, then he must have been crucified on Wednesday)
4. Let us stop going to church on Sunday( as it was the day used to worship the sun god)

Basically there are many things that must be dropped. The important thing for a christian is not to be religious but to be spiritual.

Following the Bible is absolutely necessary rather than following outward religious symbols.

 

[TheAntiLion]

Um, I see a lot of good points in support of keeping the Cross, but may I add one more? (Of course I can, cause this is a messege board ).

I see the cross as one of the many important evidences of the truth that is Christianity. It for one shows that Christ truely died, since the Cross was a means of brutal execution, and with the floggings and other tortures placed upon Christ, there was no logical reason to believe that Christ just fainted, and did not truely die. Secondly, what new religion would want to have their savior executed in such a brutal mannar, saved only for the criminals and murders? Would not a new religion want their savior to be portarayed as better than that? Third, I would like to say that the cross, while a cruel (exceedingly cruel) method of execution, Christ willingly went to the cross, and died on it for each and every one of us. To reject the cross, because it is not "pretty" is rejecting many things. For if we were to reject all the ugly stuff in the Bible and Church History, what would we be left with? Not a whole bunch, especially where the OT is concerned.

Yes, the Cross was an ugly, trouture, and horrible item of execution. Yet it symbolizes and personifies the wages of sin, and the level of sacrafice that Christ gave to me and everyone else.

 

[Catechumen]

Keep it!

 

[albertmc]

This sort of stuff is the making of cults. The cross is in the bible as many posts here have attested. As for the other things mentioned,

1. The date of Christmas is likely wrong and so what? We can celebrate His birth on a particular day chosen. Please don't make the excuse we shouldn't do that. If angels, shepherds,and magi celebrated His birth, so can I.

2. This celebration is called Easter only in Anglo-Germanic cultures. It's actual name officially in both the RCC, EO, and OO is Pascha (from Passover). By the way they are defined, all of Passover, Pascha, and ancient pagan feasts will appear near the spring equinox, so the dates will appear close. In northern Europe the pagan festival Easter had its name transferred for cultural reason but it is Christian in origin. It was decided to make the fact that He rose on a Sunday more the factor than the date accoding to the lunar calander although some churches outside the Roman Empire chose the latter method without breaking ranks.

3. You are obviously ignorant of the use of the word day in ancient cultures. Only modern Americans would start counting the hours.
You also have forgotten that Jesus was crucified before a Sabbath.

4. Sunday was the day of the resurrection and was used for the celebration of Communion. Early Christians used this as their day - this can be seen both in the mentioning of the first day of the week in Scripture for taking collections and in the writings of early Church in the period concurrent with the closing of the New Testament Canon such as the Didache. All these have Sunday as their day of worship as do all further Church writings in the second and third centuries as well.

Why does "following the bible" always end up being "following some vain attempt to make first century Mediterranean people sound like a modern American subculture"? Kyrie Eleison.

hi

If v drop the cross, v have to drop many things.
1. Let us drop christmas(as most probably jesus was not born on that day)
2. Let us drop easter(it was used to celebrate the birth of pagan goddess Asheroth)
3. Let us drop good friday(if Jesus died for 3 full days and 3 full nights- as this is the sign of Jonah, then he must have been crucified on Wednesday)
4. Let us stop going to church on Sunday( as it was the day used to worship the sun god)

Basically there are many things that must be dropped. The important thing for a christian is not to be religious but to be spiritual.

Following the Bible is absolutely necessary rather than following outward religious symbols.

 

[Catechumen]

hi

If v drop the cross, v have to drop many things.
1. Let us drop christmas(as most probably jesus was not born on that day)
2. Let us drop easter(it was used to celebrate the birth of pagan goddess Asheroth)
3. Let us drop good friday(if Jesus died for 3 full days and 3 full nights- as this is the sign of Jonah, then he must have been crucified on Wednesday)
4. Let us stop going to church on Sunday( as it was the day used to worship the sun god)

Basically there are many things that must be dropped. The important thing for a christian is not to be religious but to be spiritual.

Following the Bible is absolutely necessary rather than following outward religious symbols.

You will inevitably run into problems if you decide to "only follow the Bible" because the Bible sometimes tells you to not follow things that it initially told you to follow.

 

[Catherineanne]

For CAtherine, I coldnt find your post so am responding to you too., if you dont' know catholicism and the Mass, (which is what i assume you mean that we think Christ is being crucified even today) then please be quiet, I checked your profile so can't figure if you are catholic or not, so am giving you some space on this. What you said is not our theology as catholics.

Thank you for your comments.

To clarify, I was not speaking for all Catholics. I was only speaking for myself, as a Catholic. And no, I will not be quiet.

My comment that Christ is still being crucified daily is not about Christ not being in heaven, as I am sure you would realise if you got off your high horse. It is about man's inhumanity to man, which continues every day. And every murder victim, every child who dies of hunger, is Christ crucified.

I don't give a tinker's cuss whether you believe that is Catholic theology or not. That is the reality of our fallen world.

 

[Im_A]

Considering its history as 1) an item of pagan idolatry and 2) its use in the torture and crucifixion of countless lives, should we discontinue venerating the cross as a symbol of Christianity? Still, even if all the Christian denominations/sects/organizations could agree to discontinue, what a job that would be to remove ALL items containing crosses (paintings, steeples...). Also, what would we replace it with (if we chose to replace it)? The ICTHUS fish? A dove of peace? I know some (or all of you) are going to say what an impossible job it would be, therefore, why even consider it. As for me, no crosses of any kind.

~Tim

personally i have nothing against the cross as a symbol for Christianity.

Jesus chose to go to the cross, to accomplish the will of the Father. and at the time, the cross was the most used way of death penalty. i'm sure someone could find pagan origins of the fish being used as a symbol for Christianity, and the dove should remain a symbol for the holy spirit only, not peace...in my opinion.

i say let's leave the cross as our symbol. it's a time we saw a human being (whether fully Divine or not) who was perfect and fulfilled perfection even through a terrible death. and if we are to love as others as Christ loved, then we need to keep the cross as our symbol.

 

[I.believe]

Without the cross there is no Christianity. Without Christianity, there is no salvation.

 

[Danfrey]

As I read emotional statements like "I love my cross", I wonder if we haven't turned the cross into some kind of wooden idol. Many protestants would point to the imagery in Catholisism and call it idolatry. Isn't a cross the same thing when it starts to carry such deep meaning. In the old Testament, God didn't allow any images of himself because people have a tendency to put too much emphasis on those things they can see and touch....Like a gold cross around their neck.

 

[Im_A]

As I read emotional statements like "I love my cross", I wonder if we haven't turned the cross into some kind of wooden idol. Many protestants would point to the imagery in Catholisism and call it idolatry. Isn't a cross the same thing when it starts to carry such deep meaning. In the old Testament, God didn't allow any images of himself because people have a tendency to put too much emphasis on those things they can see and touch....Like a gold cross around their neck.

good post!

but i don't see the relation between keeping it as our symbol and how many may use it as a graven image of God.

it's the same with Catholicism. Protestants accuse them of idolatry, but you ask their hearts' intentions, and it's nothing of idolatry. so i don't believe the accuser's side.

i guess there should be a different thread to talk about how the cross is used as a graven image, as compared to the cross being the symbol of our religion.

 

[copticorthodoxy]

The cross will stay the christianty symbol forever

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

As I read emotional statements like "I love my cross", I wonder if we haven't turned the cross into some kind of wooden idol. Many protestants would point to the imagery in Catholisism and call it idolatry. Isn't a cross the same thing when it starts to carry such deep meaning. In the old Testament, God didn't allow any images of himself because people have a tendency to put too much emphasis on those things they can see and touch....Like a gold cross around their neck.

Hello:

There is no question that people can be given to idolatry, no matter which tradition or new-tradition-that-they-don't-want-to-call-tradition tradition we ascribe to.

And while it is true on one hand that people can be overly reliant on that which they can see, and miss out on that which faith benefits to those who do not see, yet believe, it is also true on the other hand that God speaks to us through what we can touch and hold and taste and smell.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
It would be just as easy to look upon the Latin symbols on the pages of one's English-translation bible and attribute the salvation of man to these, as opposed to the One who breathed the words they symbolize. Anything can be a trap for man's vulnerable soul, and we have a crafty and tireless enemy.

HOWEVER
I am not ashamed of the cross of Christ, nor will it ever leave my neck, anymore than a bondservant would tear the ring from his ear. I would sooner take the ring from my finger, which symbolizes the immeasurable love I have for my wife of 17 years, than take from my neck the cross that testifies that I have been bought with a price.

Pagan? It has been said so on this thread. If people in our culture do not know the meaning of this symbol, it is because we Christians do not take up ours every day and make visible, demonstrable, touchable witness on this earth.

The symbol is NOT the problem- it is the ones wearing the symbol (who must give a defense before the dread judgement seat of Christ)- including me- who are part of the problem... and the only appointed solution.

Regards
James

 

[YahwehisHisname]

Please open a book people. I am baffled at the ignorance of this subject.The cross is a word NOT found in scripture. Read that again! It does have a history however. One that predates whom you call Jesus. It has to do with the sun crossing the equator at the vernal equinox. This is also where Easter and Christmas come in. They ALSO have zero to do with Yahweh, the God who inspired the scriptures, and are also, not scriptural.
All false worship venerates the Sun or moon.
Had we been told the truth from our churches, who venerate Mithraism while replacing the Sabbath to SUN day, we would know the significance of "Stauros" and "Histemi". We have the tools today to find this info out easily. We are left without excuse.