Dinosaurs on the Ark?

Job 33:6 · Jul 29, 2017

And where are the birds? there are over 10,000 species of birds. Are we assuming that these birds flew in the air for 3 days straight in chaotic winds and heavy downpour? I dont even see non avian birds on this list. Thats another 20,000 animals.

Birds need fresh food and water too.

20,000 baby animals that is, because many full grown animals wouldnt fit in these tiny 4x4 prison cells.

Just a casual estimate, you have your original 15,000 animals (being generous), with 40,000 animals on top, and this is being generous, 55,000 animals and im sure more are being missed.

Job 33:6 · Jul 29, 2017

Where are all the arthropods? Granted, some are aquatic, but what about species of spiders and scorpions, mites, millipedes, centipedes, millipedes, butterflies, caterpillars etc.

There are 40,000 species of arachnid alone, even if we were nice and cut this number in half, thats another 20,000 species, and 40,000 animals on this arch.

that puts our number closer to 100,000 animals, and theres still more to add.

if we take the total space of the ark, 1.25 million cubic feet, divide it by 2 (1 half for the animal, a quarter for its waste and a quarter for its food, assuming the walls are made of paper, that would give each animal 6 cubic feet to live for 3 days. Thats less than a 2x2x2 foot cell for each which a baby elephant cant even fit into.

And again this assumes the walls are as thin as paper and there are no steps or ramps or ladders to get to places.

-57 · Jul 29, 2017

KomatiiteBIF said:
Lets add some more animals. I see amphibians were not included on this list of animals. These would not survive a global flood, so lets add them in.

AmphibiaWeb Species Lists

thats another 7500 species x 2 is another 15,000 animals. Even if we were generous and cut that down a bit and said "maybe they could breed before but cannot now, we are still looking at an additional 10,000 animals.

Lets add in some more reptiles as well, we seem to be missing some.

You seem to have forgotten....KINDS...not....SPECIES were on the ark. From the Amphibia kind they speciate into all of the species you mentioned.

-57 · Jul 29, 2017

KomatiiteBIF said:
squamata 1938? No no, that number has over 9600 species (nearly 20,000 animals). Even if we were extra generous and cut that number down to 5 thousand additional species (maybe some could interbreed?), youre still looking at an additional 10,000 on top. Thats 20,000 additional animals.

Once again were not counting individual species. If an animal speciated today, would you claim it was on the ark?

-57 · Jul 29, 2017

KomatiiteBIF said:
And where are the birds? there are over 10,000 species of birds.

I think you beat the species to death. In the post above it has been shown to you that each species of birds were not on the ark. The speciation of birds occurred after the birds were left off the ark.
I trust you stand corrected on this point.

KomatiiteBIF said:
Birds need fresh food and water too.

I have bird seed that is several years old...and the birds still eat it.
Fresh water? Put a bucket out in the rain and collect it. That's what i would have done. Or better yet, construct some sort of aqua duct system that could bring in the fresh water.

KomatiiteBIF, why do you disagree with your bible? So far every question has been answered.

-57 · Jul 29, 2017

KomatiiteBIF said:
Thats less than a 2x2x2 foot cell for each which a baby elephant cant even fit into.

We've already put to rest counting species....so I'll not address that any further....and why it is true an elephant can't fit into the small space you mentioned, how many scorpions, mites, millipedes, centipedes, millipedes, butterflies, caterpillars etc. could fit into that small space?

Each one of your small kinds would have occupied a much smaller space....why couldn't you take the over abundent space you claimed each small creature required and given some of it to the elephant? If I were Noah that's what I would have done. They do it in zoos.

-57 · Jul 29, 2017

Eryk said:
I must defer to more qualified people, who have put more thought into the technical details than I have.

Keep reading this thread as each one of KomatiiteBIF anti-ark concerns are answered.

Job 33:6 · Jul 29, 2017

-57 said:
I think you beat the species to death. In the post above it has been shown to you that each species of birds were not on the ark. The speciation of birds occurred after the birds were left off the ark.
I trust you stand corrected on this point.

I have bird seed that is several years old...and the birds still eat it.
Fresh water? Put a bucket out in the rain and collect it. That's what i would have done. Or better yet, construct some sort of aqua duct system that could bring in the fresh water.

KomatiiteBIF, why do you disagree with your bible? So far every question has been answered.

This is good, need fresh water? put a bucket out and collect it.

Ok, so lets make more space on the ark for 10,000 bucks because that's what we are going to need, to quench the thirst of these animals. And whoever is providing this water, is going to have to watch their step, because we haven't even factored in the space it would take to install some stairs to get up and down the ark.

Job 33:6 · Jul 29, 2017

-57 said:
I think you beat the species to death. In the post above it has been shown to you that each species of birds were not on the ark. The speciation of birds occurred after the birds were left off the ark.
I trust you stand corrected on this point.
.

Here we go, alright, so first we suggest perhaps that animals that can no longer interbreed, perhaps could before. Maybe a giraffe could interbreed with a rhino. Ok, glad that's cleared up.

And now, we are throwing in the possibility that ostriches and penguins actually were not around on the ark but just speciated from a common ancestor, even though some penguins live in the tropics, some live in the bitter cold and ostriches are completely different (far more different than a dog from a wolf) and live on a different continent,

they actually came from a single bird kind and diversified all around the planet in the matter of perhaps a few hundred years. Not sure how the ostriches flew from Antarctica to Australia, but they did.

Alright, I suppose ill move on. This is just too much.

Thanks for talking lobster guy.

-57 · Jul 29, 2017

KomatiiteBIF said:
they actually came from a single bird kind and diversified all around the planet in the matter of perhaps a few hundred years.

The list i gave you contained:
Galliformes 176
Falconiformes 170
Psittaciformes 164

You do know they are all birds? So, once again when you say a single bird...you seem to be fabricating what I'm saying.

-57 · Jul 29, 2017

KomatiiteBIF said:
Alright, I suppose ill move on. This is just too much.

I understand it's to much considering you had your butt handed to you today.
Believe your bible KomatiiteBIF.

Speedwell · Jul 29, 2017

-57 said:
I understand it's to much considering you had your butt handed to you today.
Believe your bible KomatiiteBIF.

No, all we've seen today are speculations; hypothetical ad hoc explanations for how it might have worked. There's no evidence of it anywhere.

-57 · Jul 29, 2017

Speedwell said:
No, all we've seen today are speculations; hypothetical ad hoc explanations for how it might have worked. There's no evidence of it anywhere.

Well, lets put it this way...the anti-arkers haven't really presented a case against the ark.

Job 33:6 · Jul 29, 2017

-57 said:
We've already put to rest counting species....so I'll not address that any further....and why it is true an elephant can't fit into the small space you mentioned, how many scorpions, mites, millipedes, centipedes, millipedes, butterflies, caterpillars etc. could fit into that small space?

Each one of your small kinds would have occupied a much smaller space....why couldn't you take the over abundent space you claimed each small creature required and given some of it to the elephant? If I were Noah that's what I would have done. They do it in zoos.

Put it to rest? Please lol. You've been inferring hyper evolution and potential breeding between animals that cant even breed. Put it to rest indeed.

And its good you mentioned smaller cells for smaller animals. That's just more space taken up by walls (and less space for the animals) which still have undefined dimensions. Which just opens up more questions of how Noah knew what spaced cells to make to begin with.

Every response you have given has been purely based on speculation and inference. As speedwell said, none is based in any evidence, and for every 1 response you give, I can just ask 10 more unanswered questions. Perhaps Noah knew of all 10,000 species of non interbreeding arthropods that existed on earth, and made cells for each of them.

Or perhaps the arthropods too super evolved and were teleported to their respective geographic environments. Still no answer on how the marsupials all went to Australia, or why elephants are found in india and Africa but nowhere in between.

All questions well understood when viewed in an alternative non literal way.

Speedwell · Jul 29, 2017

-57 said:
Well, lets put it this way...the anti-arkers haven't really presented a case against the ark.

What ark? Your imaginary hypothetical Ark?

EpiscipalMe · Jul 29, 2017

First don't we have to decide how many pairs of each kind? Genesis 6 instructs 1 pit, male and female, of each kind. Genesis 7 instructs 7 pairs of each kind of clean animal but only 1 pair of each unclean kind.

Also, lions and tigers are different species. If they breed they make a liger. Ligers are less fertile but if they do manage to breed, you get a liliger or a tiliger which are sickly and not fertile. Basically, unless Noah had one pair of lions and one pair of tigers, both species would have died out.

What about that guy who built an ark? Let's ask him to load up one pair of each kind of animal and see if they fit.

Speedwell · Jul 29, 2017

EpiscipalMe said:
First don't we have to decide how many pairs of each kind? Genesis 6 instructs 1 pit, male and female, of each kind. Genesis 7 instructs 7 pairs of each kind of clean animal but only 1 pair of each unclean kind.

Also, lions and tigers are different species. If they breed they make a liger. Ligers are less fertile but if they do manage to breed, you get a liliger or a tiliger which are sickly and not fertile. Basically, unless Noah had one pair of lions and one pair of tigers, both species would have died out.

What about that guy who built an ark? Let's ask him to load up one pair of each kind of animal and see if they fit.

Ken Ham missed a good bet there. Instead of building a fake theme-park replica Ark, he should have gotten some artisans together and tried to build a real one, with authentic Early Bronze Age boatbuilding techniques. That would have been a real "Feasibility Study."

RGW00 · Jul 29, 2017

AV1611VET said:
They went extinct.

I am aware. I think we are in agreement on that respect.

AV1611VET · Jul 29, 2017

RGW00 said:
I am aware. I think we are in agreement on that respect.

The $64 dollar question is: When did they go extinct?

Eryk · Jul 29, 2017

2 Peter 3
In the last days mockers will come.
They deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

Dinosaurs on the Ark?

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