Dinosaurs demonic?

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
The last sentence in On The Origin of Species, 1872 ed.
There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.

So?

So his theory is completely compatible with Scripture.

What was the argument with the churches at that time?

Since there's neither scriptural nor apostolic position on evolution, they didn't have one. Of course, most Christians of that time accepted that the creation story wasn't a literal history, so there really wasn't all that much for theologians to do. Wasn't until Seventh-Day Adventists invented YE creationism in the 1900s, that it became an issue.

That we evolved from some chimp

Not what the theory says.

and not had not come afresh from the hand of God?

Why would it bother you to have humans evolve from an animal instead of directly from mud?

Darwin was noting one thing and then misapplied that truth. That God had designed the ability for designated creatures to physically change as their means to adapt to environmental changes.

And for those changes to produce new kinds of organisms. Speciation is an observed fact.

 

[Ancient of Days]

It shows there was another world that existed before Genesis 1:2. A prehistoric world. That is vitally important. For it shows that this present creation was not the first one to grace the surface of this planet.

That needs to be established before anyone can begin to see what took place with the angels with that creation.

Can you see that much yet?

"It shows there was another world that existed before Genesis 1:2."

Where is the proof of this?

 

[Phil 1:21]

"It shows there was another world that existed before Genesis 1:2."

Where is the proof of this?

I would like to know as well. I asked several times, but never could get an answer.

 

[Ancient of Days]

Yep, wrong beginnings only lead to wrong conclusions. The only thing we know for sure that existed before Genesis 1:1 is God, Christ and the Holy Ghost.

 

[GenemZ]

So his theory is completely compatible with Scripture.

If man evolved from a chimp it isn't at all.

Trouble is. When man fell he became more like an animal in his thinking. So, those so inclined, will readily accept that we evolved from a lower creature. When God regenerates a person God elevates that soul on step closer back to the pre-fallen state. When a Christian today becomes transformed by truth and grace he will become even closer yet.

Since there's neither scriptural nor apostolic position on evolution, they didn't have one. Of course, most Christians of that time accepted that the creation story wasn't a literal history, so there really wasn't all that much for theologians to do. Wasn't until Seventh-Day Adventists invented YE creationism in the 1900s, that it became an issue.

The Jews who were believers who spoke the Hebrew knew that this creation was not the first to grace the surface of this planet. They never had to question it. That's all. Darwin interjected that there was no separate past creation, but that its all been one long flow of the evolutionary process. In other words? God did not really create man's soul in his image.

What separated man from the animals created in Genesis One? Man's soul alone was created in God's image. The body provided in the next chapter for man's soul shares some common attributes with the bodies of animals.

If we evolved from monkeys/chimps? Only the human body could be explained. The function of the human soul is way far above. Unless a man degenerates and psychotically lives like an animal.

 

[GenemZ]

"It shows there was another world that existed before Genesis 1:2."

Where is the proof of this?

Read the book with link...



Scholars who lived long before Darwin was born had discovered through their understanding of the ancient languages of the Bible that other created worlds preceded this one. They simply did not know what to make of it because knowledge of the prehistoric world was not yet well understood.


Here is an online copy of a chapter of his work to explain what I spoke of. Without Form and Void - Chapter 1

 

[Ancient of Days]

Why don't we just read the book that matters.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

SEE THE GAP HERE? ITS EMPTY SPACE. IF GOD HAD WANTED IT FILLED HE WOULD HAVE DONE SO. YET AGAIN, GOD IS RIGHT AND MAN IS WRONG!

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

IF THERE IS A QUESTION TO BE ASKED ITS "WHY DID HE TAKE SO LONG? WHY SIX DAYS? WHY NOT SIX MINUTES, WHY NOT SIX SECONDS? WHY NOT IN AN INSTANT?" Man cannot even fathom the fact that time doesn't exist for God. Time is irrelevant. It is a yardstick, a measuring tape. That is all it is. Men who walk by the spirit can fathom this, those who walk by the flesh cannot.


One of the biggest reasons Christians fall away is they spend more time reading books about the bible than reading the bible itself.

 

[Phil 1:21]

One of the biggest reasons Christians fall away is they spend more time reading books about the bible than reading the bible itself

There is a TON of truth in that.

 

[Ancient of Days]

Yep, at some point they doubt God and forget that it is written:

19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

There are at least a hundred full human lifetimes of knowledge in Gods word. He will take you as deep as you are willing to go. It can be endless....

 

[GenemZ]

Why don't we just read the book that matters.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

SEE THE GAP HERE? ITS EMPTY SPACE. IF GOD HAD WANTED IT FILLED HE WOULD HAVE DONE SO. YET AGAIN, GOD IS RIGHT AND MAN IS WRONG!.

That "beginning" took place at some undesignated time BEFORE the first day of this creation took place.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

That's where the translators fell short. Tohu wa bohu" means something much more severe than simply 'without form and void.' Its so severe that Jeremiah warned the rebellious Jews that their end with become like what was read in Genesis 1:2. It means ruined and chaotic..... and having an eerie sense of emptiness hovering around it... Desolation by destruction.

Jeremiah 4:7

A lion has come out of his lair;
a destroyer of nations has set out.
He has left his place
to lay waste your land.
Your towns will lie in ruins
without inhabitant.


And, Jeremiah goes on in his warning to almost quote the main part of Genesis 1:2's Hebrew verbatim!

Jeremiah 4:22-23

“My people are fools;
they do not know me.
They are senseless children;
they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good.”

I looked at the earth,
and it was formless and empty;
and at the heavens,
and their light was gone.


Genesis 1:2 speaks of utter desolation and destruction that came from the judgement of Lucifer and his angel's prehistoric earth. God knew that men would eventually discover that there was a prehistoric creation. The words of the Bible preceded the discovery. That shows God omniscience at work in the Bibles organization.

IF THERE IS A QUESTION TO BE ASKED ITS "WHY DID HE TAKE SO LONG? WHY SIX DAYS? WHY NOT SIX MINUTES, WHY NOT SIX SECONDS? WHY NOT IN AN INSTANT?" Man cannot even fathom the fact that time doesn't exist for God. Time is irrelevant. It is a yardstick, a measuring tape. That is all it is. Men who walk by the spirit can fathom this, those who walk by the flesh cannot.

God chose six days so man could grasp what took place, and the angels could observe the new world's creation and understand what was taking place. Otherwise... God could have just winked and instantly this creation could have appeared. Breaking it up in six days gave the angels watching the restoration of the earth a frame of reference. Instant creation would have stunned and confused them.

One of the biggest reasons Christians fall away is they spend more time reading books about the bible than reading the bible itself.

Actually... what you are doing is a huge part of the problem. Its why secular science can smile and keep moving ahead with their agenda without feeling any threat to their desired outcome in sight. For your interpretation can easily be refuted with their manipulation of the data they possess. And they too, do not like the GAP fact. It takes away their toys when presented clearly.

 

[The Barbarian]

If man evolved from a chimp it isn't at all.

Humans didn't evolve from chimps. Thought you knew.

Trouble is. When man fell he became more like an animal in his thinking.

In fact, at the fall, man become more like God.

So, those so inclined, will readily accept that we evolved from a lower creature.

The evidence shows we evolved from primates.

If we evolved from monkeys/chimps?

We didn't. Our last ancestor was neither.

Only the human body could be explained.

Right. Evolution is only the change in allele frequency in populations over time.

The function of the human soul is way far above.

Right.

Unless a man degenerates and psychotically lives like an animal.

Animals are innocent. Humans are like God in knowing good and evil, but without God are incapable of acting in a consistent good way.

 

[GenemZ]

Humans didn't evolve from chimps. Thought you knew.

Evolutionists apparently can not agree on that. For I did not think that was the belief of evolutionists until they kept correcting me back in the golden age of the CompuServe debate forums. There was a consensus that man evolved from a type of chimp.. not an ape, nor monkey.

In fact, at the fall, man become more like God.

Being too literal?
Becoming aware of what God was aware of (concerning "knowing good and evil") should never be equated with God's character who has only a perception of what it is. In contrast to God.. Man experiences doing what it is. Man knows "evil" like the Biblical use of a man "knowing a woman."

The evidence shows we evolved from primates.

Without the truth it can be construed to seem that way. For God had designed many similarities in the biological functions of animals and man. Livers are livers. Hearts are hearts. What makes man higher than the primates is that his soul was created in God's image. Animals souls are generic, instinctive, and do not have the potential for everlasting life. That is one reason God can have animal meat for our food.

Animals are innocent. Humans are like God in knowing good and evil, but without God are incapable of acting in a consistent good way.

Animals are God's teaching props for men and angels. God only recognizes evil and knows it now exists. In contrast... man knows evil on a much different level (as in where it says Adam knew his wife and had a son)... Man is intimate with evil. God objectively recognized its existence. Before his fall, Adam was oblivious of evil. Its why the woman could converse with the possessed serpent and think nothing of it.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Humans didn't evolve from chimps. Thought you knew.

Evolutionists apparently can not agree on that.

I've been studying biology since 1965. And I've never seen anything in the literature, even the historical literature that says so.

Got a cite for me?

Bararian observes:
In fact, at the fall, man become more like God.

Being too literal?

No. In fact, God often uses parables and allegory to make his point.

Becoming aware of what God was aware of (concerning "knowing good and evil") should never be equated with God's character who has only a perception of what it is. In contrast to God.. Man experiences doing what it is. Man knows "evil" like the Biblical use of a man "knowing a woman."

That's not what God says. So there's that to consider.

For God had designed many similarities in the biological functions of animals and man.

No one has yet been able to show that God "designs." That's an unscriptural religious doctrine, not a scientific fact.

Livers are livers. Hearts are hearts. What makes man higher than the primates is that his soul was created in God's image.

Of course. Man is a primate, but that's not all that he is. He is also an immortal soul, in the image of God.

Animals souls are generic, instinctive, and do not have the potential for everlasting life.

We aren't told one way or another on that, but I have no reason to believe you are wrong.

 

[GenemZ]

We aren't told one way or another on that, but I have no reason to believe you are wrong.

That was in response to...

"Animals souls are generic, instinctive, and do not have the potential for everlasting life."

In Genesis One God created certain things "bara." The Hebrew word means that unique to God, He created 'out from nothing.' In Genesis Two we no longer see God creating out from nothing.

One thing needing to be seen. Bodies for souls were supplied in Genesis Two. They were not created out from nothing. Instead, they were.. "jatsar." Which means? 'Molded and formed" out from something that had already been created out from nothing.

Bodies for man and land animals were not given in Genesis One. The souls of both land animals and man were "bara." Created out from nothing.

It says in Genesis One that "God saw." We do not see that wording in Genesis Two. For in chapter One God in His omniscience saw the whole picture of what was being created in sequences.

Genesis One: Land animal souls were first created. Then along came man. But, man was uniquely created in God's Image. That speaks of our soul.

The animal and human bodies consisting of the elements of the earth that originally were molded and formed by the Lord. There was no "bara" taking place with the bodies. Look at a multi mineral complex on a jar and you will see that out bodies need elements of the earth to be replenished.

In Genesis Two those bodies were not created out from nothing. Both animal's and Adam's body were 'molded and formed' out from the ground.

We are always told how the Lord made Adams body out from the elements of the earth. But, it also says the same thing happened for the animals that live on the surface of the earth.

The bodies for the animal souls God had created "out from nothing" in Genesis One, were provided in the next chapter. We do not find God creating out from nothing any longer once Genesis One ends. It actually says that God "rested" from creating out from nothing.

"Now the Lord God had (jatsar) formed out of the ground
all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought
them to the man to see what he would name them; and
whatever the man called each living creature, that was its
name. So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds
in the sky and all the wild animals." Gen 2:19-20​

Animal bodies were designed to live and function according to how the earth was created. Same goes for the human body living on earth.

The body is an "organic biological machine" that is the physical manifestation of the invisible soul that animates that body. No need for odd differences between mans and animals bodies, unless God creates special attributes into a creature that He wishes to reveal something about His creative ability.

Unless we cut through the ambiguous wording we see in many English translations this factor found in the exacting Hebrew will often times be missed. Some Bible readers have even assumed that there were two different creations with Genesis One and Two. Not so. Not same things taking place in each chapter. The Hebrew meaning of words holds the key.

 

[parousia70]

When Adam fell only certain animals took on ferocity.

Prior to the fall of Adam all animals were vegetarians.

"Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face
of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it.
They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth
and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along
the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give
every green plant for food.” And it was so." Gen 1:29-30​

Not all animals became carnivores after the fall of Adam. Only some. Many animals after the fall of Adam remained herbivores.

Likewise. In the previous creation before this one? God gave angels dominion over the prehistoric creation (like Adam was given dominion over this one). After Satan and his angels fell? Then only some of the prehistoric animals the angels had dominion over, took on ferocity and becoming carnivores.

Fascinating How all those vegetarians turned carnivores were created originally with attributes equipping them specifically for a carnivorous lifestyle isn't it? I mean, What are the Odds?

Sharks were created with Flesh Ripping teeth before the fall.
Spiders were created with Bloodsucking fangs before the fall.
Mosquitos...Pirahanas... the Venus Fly Trap, etc..
All created originally, before the fall, with Carnivorous specificity.

Amazing.

 

[GenemZ]

Fascinating How all those vegetarians turned carnivores were created originally with attributes equipping them specifically for a carnivorous lifestyle isn't it? I mean, What are the Odds?

Sharks were created with Flesh Ripping teeth before the fall.
Spiders were created with Bloodsucking fangs before the fall.
Mosquitos...Pirahanas... the Venus Fly Trap, etc..
All created originally, before the fall, with Carnivorous specificity.

Amazing.

It might explain why we have that mysterious non functional appendix that flairs up at times when its infected and has to be removed. Its possible that when man was originally created the appendix was functional and produced enzymes, etc.. that were needed to subside solely on vegetation.

Sharks were not created with flesh ripping teeth in the beginning. Remember how the serpent used to move adeptly on all fours before the fall. God instantly made the serpent legless. God also transformed the entire creation after the fall to reflect the nature that had became manifest because of the fall. Thorns and thistles did not exist either before Adam's fall, and suddenly began to pop up. God transformed the creation accordingly.

And, in the future? When the Lord restores the world. There will be no more meat eating creatures once again.

"The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
and a little child will lead them.
"The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox." (Isa 11:6-7)​

 

[The Barbarian]

It might explain why we have that mysterious non functional appendix that flairs up at times when its infected and has to be removed.

Actually, it produces WBC, and is a place where the normal flora of the gut can remain when the intestinal tract is infect, to re-establish a normal flora there later.

Sharks were not created with flesh ripping teeth in the beginning.

I don't see that in scriptures anywhere.

Remember how the serpent used to move adeptly on all fours before the fall. God instantly made the serpent legless.

That's not in there, either.

God also transformed the entire creation after the fall to reflect the nature that had became manifest because of the fall. Thorns and thistles did not exist either before Adam's fall, and suddenly began to pop up. God transformed the creation accordingly.

And that's not there.

 

[GenemZ]

Actually, it produces WBC, and is a place where the normal flora of the gut can remain when the intestinal tract is infect, to re-establish a normal flora there later.

Rewrite that please.... Other than white blood cells... it appears to be somewhat broken English. If you do? I might learn something.

I don't see that in scriptures anywhere.

OK... you can't see it. ok...

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Actually, it produces WBC, and is a place where the normal flora of the gut can remain when the intestinal tract is infected, to re-establish a normal flora there later.

Rewrite that please.... Other than white blood cells... it appears to be somewhat broken English. If you do? I might learn something.

What a difference an "ed" makes.

Sharks were not created with flesh ripping teeth in the beginning.

I don't see that in scriptures anywhere.

Remember how the serpent used to move adeptly on all fours before the fall. God instantly made the serpent legless.

That's not in there, either.

God also transformed the entire creation after the fall to reflect the nature that had became manifest because of the fall. Thorns and thistles did not exist either before Adam's fall, and suddenly began to pop up. God transformed the creation accordingly.

I don't see that in scriptures anywhere.

OK... you can't see it. ok...

If you have to add things to the text to make your idea work, isn't that an important clue?

 

[GenemZ]

Barbarian observes:
Actually, it produces WBC, and is a place where the normal flora of the gut can remain when the intestinal tract is infected, to re-establish a normal flora there later.
What a difference an "ed" makes.

The appendix is now just a vestigial appendage that can become infected. That's all you are saying. It currently has no real important function. When man was solely vegetarian it most likely had a function in producing completed proteins.

I don't see that in scriptures anywhere.
That's not in there, either.
I don't see that in scriptures anywhere.

So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this,
you are cursed more than all cattle, and more than every beast of
the field; on your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust all the
days of your life." Gen 3:14

​

You can't see that? The serpent was not crawling on its belly prior to the cursing.

Its not there to be seen by some then. Alright. Some people are also color blind.

Determination without intellectual honesty can not succeed without tyranny.

If you have to add things to the text to make your idea work, isn't that an important clue?

The Bible is not one single text. It works as a whole.

The following was written to the regenerate believer. Its how it happens.

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more
and more in knowledge and depth of insight.
Philip 1:9​

As it stands right now you can not possess what you will defy and demand proof that you will not be able to accept. If you could? You would have believed in Jesus Christ before all else. The real Jesus. Not the paganized wimpy Jesus.