Difficult Times Ahead

[Paidiske]

In light of 2 Timothy 3:1-7 what scriptures do you preach that describe how "we present the gospel?"

I'm not even sure what you're asking me here.

So let me say a bit more about what I mean. When people know that I'm a priest, the first thing they want to talk about is the clergy sexual abuse crisis. We have to deal with and process that, before I can say anything about why I, personally, am committed to an institution they see as (basically) a glorified paedophile ring, or to the gospel which is at the heart of the Church.

The way that we have handled the sexual abuse crisis, as well as the way we have attempted to dictate and control the sexual morality of non-Christians, have made us seem complete hypocrites, and our church communities completely dangerous moral vacuums.

So why would anyone want to explore faith or relationship with God in that context?

Does that sort of make a bit more sense of some of what I mean?

 

[Aabbie James]

I'm not even sure what you're asking me here

In light of 2 Timothy 3:1-7 what scriptures do you preach that describe how "we present the gospel?"

Which part do you not understand?

Given the fallen world described in Post#1 (2 Timothy 3:1-17) and your post describing "appallingly bad behaviour of many Christians..."

[how] "we present the gospel?" are your words from Post#18

Which scriptures inform your approach to preaching the Gospel?

There was provided one such scriptural example in Post#16 (Hebrews 4:12)

 

[Paidiske]

I don't think I have a prooftext that describes how to present the gospel; except perhaps Philippians 4:5.

 

[charsan]

Which of the following world-views is true?

I did not vote because nothing in your poll was my answer.

 

[Aabbie James]

I don't think I have a prooftext that describes how to present the gospel; except perhaps Philippians 4:5.

We can always go to these verses [go preach, go teach, spread the Word of God, to the end of the earth, preach the Gospel]: Matthew 9:13; Matthew 4:17; Mark 8:34; 2 Timothy 3:16–4:4; 2 Timothy 4:2; 2 Timothy 2:15; 2 Timothy 4:1–2; Ephesians 6:17; Acts 8:35; 1 Peter 3:15; Luke 24:27; Mark 16:15; Hebrews 4:12; Romans 1:16; Luke 24:47; John 3:16; and Philippians 4:5

 

[ViaCrucis]

With respect to rightly handling the Word of God I point us to the Apostle Paul's advice given to Timothy.

2 Timothy 2:15-16 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn’t need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth. But avoid irreverent, empty speech, for this will produce an even greater measure of godlessness.

I guess I'm not sure how you're connecting that passage to my post. Paul's advice to St. Timothy here concerns his vocation as a pastor, which covers a lot of things, including right preaching of the Gospel.

In a broader sense, "rightly dividing the word of truth" can be understood as exegetical; this is a prooftext used in Lutheran circles about the importance of good biblical exegesis, and is used to underscore the importance of the Lutheran dialectic of Law and Gospel. That is, to properly discern what is Law and what is Gospel, and not confuse the one for the other. This Law-Gospel Dialectic is a bedrock principle of Lutheran hermeneutics and theology.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Paidiske]

We can always go to these verses [go preach, go teach, spread the Word of God, to the end of the earth, preach the Gospel]: Matthew 9:13; Matthew 4:17; Mark 8:34; 2 Timothy 3:16–4:4; 2 Timothy 4:2; 2 Timothy 2:15; 2 Timothy 4:1–2; Ephesians 6:17; Acts 8:35; 1 Peter 3:15; Luke 24:27; Mark 16:15; Hebrews 4:12; Romans 1:16; Luke 24:47; John 3:16; and Philippians 4:5

I don't see most of these relating to what we were discussing, though; which is the need to adapt our attitude and language.

 

[Aabbie James]

I don't see most of these relating to what we were discussing, though; which is the need to adapt our attitude and language.

What do you see most of these relating too?

 

[Paidiske]

There's no one answer to that. You've listed verses from ten different books, by (at least) seven different authors, written in different times and places and contexts. The web of connections between them is complex and multi-layered (and that's before we consider how they relate to our own lives and contexts).

For example, I take Paul's comment about preaching in season and out of season; and then I consider the rest of my day, which includes a communion service in a nursing home, a workshop in a secular setting on what it means to "die well," and an interfaith forum on prevention of domestic violence. Which "season" does each of those occasions reflect, and how might I adapt my approach accordingly?

That's not a simple question with a one-size-fits-all snappy answer!

 

[Aabbie James]

There's no one answer to that. You've listed verses from ten different books, by (at least) seven different authors, written in different times and places and contexts. The web of connections between them is complex and multi-layered (and that's before we consider how they relate to our own lives and contexts).

For example, I take Paul's comment about preaching in season and out of season; and then I consider the rest of my day, which includes a communion service in a nursing home, a workshop in a secular setting on what it means to "die well," and an interfaith forum on prevention of domestic violence. Which "season" does each of those occasions reflect, and how might I adapt my approach accordingly?

That's not a simple question with a one-size-fits-all snappy answer!

Fundamentally, they're all contained within God's word, and preaching God's word, especially the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is what Jesus commanded all believers to do. Any scripture preached can be tied to the Gospel. That's message unbelievers need to hear.

 

[Paidiske]

Fundamentally, they're all contained within God's word, and preaching God's word, especially the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is what Jesus commanded all believers to do. Any scripture preached can be tied to the Gospel. That's message unbelievers need to hear.

But that says absolutely nothing about the attitudes and language with which we do that.

 

[Aabbie James]

But that says absolutely nothing about the attitudes and language with which we do that.

It wasn't meant too. It is meant to emphasize the call of all believers to preach the true Gospel of Jesus Christ to unbelievers; and that any passage can be tied to the Gospel message. The Holy Spirit of God dwells within all believers, and guides them into all truth; even as they deliver the Gospel message. Galatians 5:22-23 tells us that the Fruitfulness of God's Spirit is at work through believers.

 

[Paidiske]

So what does that imply in relation to the question you raised about attitudes and language?

 

[Aabbie James]

So what does that imply in relation to the question you raised about attitudes and language?

It means what it says.

Believers are called to preach the Gospel message to all unbelievers, from God's word, in the language of the Holy Scriptures, with the attitude that only God is Righteous and that we are all sinners before the Sovereign God, so that unbelievers hear the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, and that they might believe upon the LORD. There is no other salvation.

We are living in difficult times as Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 3:1-7.

The Bible says salvation is in Christ alone, right?

And that's what Romans 10 says, "You're saved by believing in Christ, but you can't believe in Christ unless you hear about Christ. You can't hear about Christ unless somebody preaches. And somebody is not going to preach unless they're sent." That is our mandate. That has been the mission of the church since the church was born on Pentecost and Jesus said, "You’ll receive the Holy Spirit, and you'll be witnesses unto Me in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the uttermost part of the earth."

 

[Aabbie James]

I did not vote because nothing in your poll was my answer.

Feel free to offer your answer in your own words.

 

[Aabbie James]

I guess I'm not sure how you're connecting that passage to my post. Paul's advice to St. Timothy here concerns his vocation as a pastor, which covers a lot of things, including right preaching of the Gospel.

In a broader sense, "rightly dividing the word of truth" can be understood as exegetical; this is a prooftext used in Lutheran circles about the importance of good biblical exegesis, and is used to underscore the importance of the Lutheran dialectic of Law and Gospel. That is, to properly discern what is Law and what is Gospel, and not confuse the one for the other. This Law-Gospel Dialectic is a bedrock principle of Lutheran hermeneutics and theology.

-CryptoLutheran

As I considered your closing sentence written in that post: "We should, at the very least, give the same level of serious to Holy Scripture" ... I was reminded of Paul's teaching to Timothy:

2 Timothy 2:15-16 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn’t need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth. But avoid irreverent, empty speech, for this will produce an even greater measure of godlessness.

 

[charsan]

Feel free to offer your answer in your own words.

I do not consider the Bible as authoritative like evangelicals do, I believe in the one the Bible reveals - Jesus Christ - that my belief is centered on. The Bible is center but not an authority

 

[Aabbie James]

I don't think I have a prooftext that describes how to present the gospel; except perhaps Philippians 4:5.

Perhaps? Are you sure?

 

[Paidiske]

Believers are called to preach the Gospel message to all unbelievers, from God's word, in the language of the Holy Scriptures, with the attitude that only God is Righteous and that we are all sinners before the Sovereign God, so that unbelievers hear the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, and that they might believe upon the LORD. There is no other salvation.

My bold. So, you are learning ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek,then, so that you might know the language(s) of the Holy Scriptures?

No? So then some adaptation and enculturation is allowed. What we are considering is, how much?

For example, I find that speaking about "sin" to people who don't have any understanding of faith is almost meaningless. They have no framework of meaning for that word except something like "sex-and-stuff-the-Christians-want-to-control-about-my-life." So harping on about sin is really unhelpful, because it reinforces their idea that I (and the Church) are out to control them and take their joy in life away. That is such an unhelpful distortion of the gospel that "sin" is a really bad starting point for the discussion of faith.

Not that it should be absent from what we talk about, but that it's not what I would lead with any more.

I'm getting the strong impression that you would therefore think that I'm somehow not presenting the "true Gospel," but from my point of view, I'm doing what I can to make sure that people encounter the gospel in a way which they can actually grasp and respond to positively.

 

[Aabbie James]

My bold. So, you are learning ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek,then, so that you might know the language(s) of the Holy Scriptures?

No? So then some adaptation and enculturation is allowed. What we are considering is, how much?

For example, I find that speaking about "sin" to people who don't have any understanding of faith is almost meaningless. They have no framework of meaning for that word except something like "sex-and-stuff-the-Christians-want-to-control-about-my-life." So harping on about sin is really unhelpful, because it reinforces their idea that I (and the Church) are out to control them and take their joy in life away. That is such an unhelpful distortion of the gospel that "sin" is a really bad starting point for the discussion of faith.

Not that it should be absent from what we talk about, but that it's not what I would lead with any more.

I'm getting the strong impression that you would therefore think that I'm somehow not presenting the "true Gospel," but from my point of view, I'm doing what I can to make sure that people encounter the gospel in a way which they can actually grasp and respond to positively.

There are numerous English translations available; and some teachers too, who are faithful to the gospel message. Sinners live in the framework of being "in the world." Paul preached that "we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God."

An unbeliever has no interest in hearing about salvation, but hearing about salvation and the true Gospel of Jesus Christ is their only hope. They must hear the gospel. If they reject it, that's on them. Jesus said "go and preach the gospel."

God's Holy Spirit will, in our Sovereign God's perfect timing, and from those He chooses, convict a sinner to believe in Christ, and be born again of the Spirit. It is the responsibility of the unbeliever to believe.