Unmasking Morality

[Jo555]

And this raises my point on morality.

1 timothy 4 Paul exhorts Timothy to teach and command.

You've put what Philippians says. So what do I do? What do I do?

I'm led by how best I can discern the Lord's Spirit leading me and i do feel He has laid this message in my heart to share.

I know Hope some. I don't have any issues with her questioning me. I can tell she feels strongly about her convictions and I don't mind addressing them if I can.

What I don't care for is nitpicking on non-essentials, and going around the same thing over and over again because there is a time we have to let the Spirit work.

But this is one of the issues that was strongly on my heart when I wrote this.

Like I know a Christian that tells me she doesn't have to open her mouth when someone accuses her of something because Jesus didn't open his mouth when He was accused and sent to the cross.

I said, well what about what He said about if you know of someone that has anything against you to try and be reconciled to them? She basically blew it off.

So what does she do? There are two references in scripture that she can go by.

She is to be led by the Spirit of God who sees all hearts and situations and will be her guide.

We hinder the flow of the Holy Spirit when we use our knowledge over his leading.

And, we can know where our hearts are at for the heart of the matter is the matter if the heart. If we are bitter, offended, ill-feelings, then we should deal with that because the Holy Spirit does not flow in contaminated waters.

As I said, i know Hope and don't have problems answering her concerns, but if it gets to nitpicking and I sense within that it is going no where productive I will tell her, as i have done before.

I should say though that I can only speak for myself and my heart. We all need to hear from Him for direction in our lives. He knows where we are all at, what is in our hearts, and how He's leading each.

Thanks for sharing. It's not that it isn't an important matter as IT IS, but not to be led by partaking of the knowledge of good and evil.

This is a great reminder for all though, moving forward.

 

[Jo555]

1 john 1:
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[b] sin.

Hope, as I said I would elaborate on light and darkness, it is similar to faith and love that we spoke of in the other thread.

It isn't one or the other. We have been given, by his Spirit, these things. We are children of light, but we don't always walk in the light as He is in the light, and we are growing in the revelation of who Jesus is. He is God's light, the living and breathing Word walking among us. That revelaion found in Christ transforms us into his image.

1 Cor 13
2 Cor 3

We see God's glory with unvelied faces.
With no veil, and no masks, we see and reflect the glory of the Lord.

One or the other thinking can hinder us seeing the word in application.

We have faith, and we are growing in it.
We have love, and are growing in it.
We have his light, and we are growing in his revelation.

Simply, God's Light, Jesus Christ lives in us, and we are growing in that revelation that transforms us into his image, but we don't always walk in the light as He is in the light.

 

[Jo555]

Intermission as need to move on to other things for today.

I like to add these sorts of things (see video) because life in Jesus should be a glorious party, even as we may walk through difficulty, but He's with us.

What is the point of all this if we can't enjoy life in Him?

I do like to add funnies too because I love laughter. Who doesn't? Helps lighten the mood too, but if it ever comes across offensive, for the love of God do let me know. Just see me. I'm just trying to bring some joy in all this.

Anyway, shared a lot and need to move on to other things, so here is an intermission to Rock the house and have some fun. It's ok. It's allowed, unless we are not operating in love.

 

[com7fy8]

Like I know a Christian that tells me she doesn't have to open her mouth when someone accuses her of something because Jesus didn't open his mouth when He was accused and sent to the cross.

I said, well what about what He said about if you know of someone that has anything against you to try and be reconciled to them? She basically blew it off.

I see that the first case is for a person who is falsely accused, like Jesus was.

The second is if someone has something against you and you are guilty of that thing.

So, they don't contradict . . . one case being an innocent person, the other being rightly accused.

Rules for how to care for a ewe lamb can't contradict with rules for how to relate with a rambunctious male sheep.

 

[Hoping2]

An unbeliever is spiritually dead, but they are not in total darkness for they have a knowledge of God in their conscience whether they acknowledge him as God or not.

A knowledge of the light doesn't put one in the light.

You are right to say there is light and darkness, and an unbeliever is in spiritual darkness, but he retains a knowledge of God in the form of good snd evil that operates on his conscience.

So what ?
Knowing men ski doesn't make one a skier.
Knowing God is not the same as being in God.

If he were in total darkness, he would be just like satan, getting immense pleasure out of tormenting others.

Isn't every sin a testimony of that ?

Some are more depraved than others though.

Neither are in the light.

Anyway, Romans 1 & 2 cover the darkness both believers and unbelievers can find themselves in and chptr 3 elaborates on why none can boast.

Believers walk in God, who is the light (1 John 1:5)

There is more to share on this, regarding the old being just a shadow of the new, etc, but short on time tonight. I may be able to find more time later.
It's what I said, they are in spiritual darkness, but you cut that portion out

There was no point in repeating it.

Agree. We are made in the image of God
The angels are not. It dawned on me shortly afterwards, There can be more to say on that though ...
There are shades of depravity in the conscience

There are only pure and impure.

A term I used loosely in regards to the reference in Romans. Not all that claim to believe are actually believers. I'll use the term profess to believe next time. Thanks for pointing that out. Very important.

OK.

I was referring to the way of old and those that still follow it. I'll have to get further into it soon, on those professing to believe, but still counting on gaining salvation by their works.
Thanks for the feedback. Have a blessed night.

Later...

 

[Hoping2]

Additionally, when I refer to the Twilight Zone, I liken it to knowledge, and partaking of it. Knowledge provides some light that can shape our conscience, but it is not the knowledge of God in our inner being revealed by his Spirit, through Jesus.

Not a very good metaphor, as we can grow in grace and knowledge, but a light is either on or off.

 

[Jo555]

Intermission as need to move on to other things for today.

I like to add these sorts of things (see video) because life in Jesus should be a glorious party, even as we may walk through difficulty, but He's with us.

What is the point of all this if we can't enjoy life in Him?

I do like to add funnies too because I love laughter. Who doesn't? Helps lighten the mood too, but if it ever comes across offensive, for the love of God do let me know. Just see me. I'm just trying to bring some joy in all this.

Anyway, shared a lot and need to move on to other things, so here is an intermission to Rock the house and have some fun. It's ok. It's allowed, unless we are not operating in love.

I see that the first case is for a person who is falsely accused, like Jesus was.

The second is if someone has something against you and you are guilty of that thing.

So, they don't contradict . . . one case being an innocent person, the other being rightly accused.

Rules for how to care for a ewe lamb can't contradict with rules for how to relate with a rambunctious male sheep.

I didn't see guilt specified in that story, but let us say that it was my misunderstanding, then what do we make of matthew 12?

Did he remain silent amongst accusations against him and his disciples?

He even called them a brood of vipers.
He saw their heart. They followed Him around looking for any opportunity accuse him. Appeared they were offended by Him going against their strict adherence to the law of Moses.

They couldn't even see that the law wasn't established to prevent good. They were serving the law, instead of realizing that the heart of the law, in Christ, walked among them touching, with love, all that opened their hearts to him.

 

[Jo555]

A knowledge of the light doesn't put one in the light.

So what ?
Knowing men ski doesn't make one a skier.
Knowing God is not the same as being in God.

Isn't every sin a testimony of that ?

Neither are in the light.

Believers walk in God, who is the light (1 John 1:5)

There was no point in repeating it.

There are only pure and impure.

OK.

Later...

God bless you Hope. I'm not going to get derailed by nitpicking.

I've already given you my replies to all that. See no reason to go on with you with it. I gave you my reply, you disagree, and I see no reason to continue, so as I've told you in the past with similar situation, let us agree to disagree.

I don't mind addressing your concerns, but I'm not going to continue in an endless cycle. The Lord has taught me to pick my battles and this one is not worth it.

 

[com7fy8]

They were serving the law, instead of realizing that the heart of the law, in Christ, walked among them touching, with love, all that opened their hearts to him.

In any case, certainly they weren't seeing who Jesus is.

I have understood that Jesus said they broke the Law, by adding rules and self-seeking interpretations.

And they feared that Jesus was a threat to their power game.

 

[Jo555]

In any case, certainly they weren't seeing who Jesus is.

I have understood that Jesus said they broke the Law, by adding rules and self-seeking interpretations.

And they feared that Jesus was a threat to their power game.

We may be preaching to the choir, but it is apparent that some need it.

Yes. They were offending with Him because He did good on the Sabbath and called God his Father, and wonderful things like that.

They wanted others to strictly serve the law, instead of realizing it was just there to prevent evil, not the good.that flows from the heart of God.

The law, like the police, was created to protect and serve them. They were not created to serve the law.

They also taught the traditions of men, over that of the law. Matthew 15:1-14.

And, they weren't happy that the crowds followed Jesus instead of them.

Until this day Jesus is still being prosecuted through his body of believers, by the modern day Pharisees, but God will turn it around for good.

We all need our Damascus Road experience for what we do to his body of believers, we do to Jesus.

 

[Jo555]

And wanted to get back to "not forsaking the assembly of the brethren".

I've seen this verse used to keep others in an unhealthy environment, like a church where they may be growing sick.

If we no longer have a desire to be there, and it persists, especially if you are growing sick, it is ok to go. There are other brethren the Lord can connect you with.

Furthermore, there are seasons the Lord will call us away for alone time with Him so He can do a work in us and teach us apart from outside influence.

Those words in Hebrews 10 paint a picture of a body of believers encouraging one another in the love of God in Christ. Some places do just the opposite, burdening others with a bunch of guilt, condemnation, and shame.

If we are in a healthy state ourselves God may just have us stay and take our grievance and intercede, but for others He may lead them out, eventually making divine connections with others.

The thing is to hear what He is speaking to each of us. If you are no longer happy there and have no desire to stay, you can pray, even so, that may already be a good indication it may be time to go. If you grieve and desire to stay, guard your heart against bitterness, and you can intercede and whatever else He may lay on your heart.

And do take time out to just hear from Him in communion with Him and as He opens his Word to you.

That is my favorite, so much so I can get selfish about it and He has to motivate me to get out amongst others. Then He makes divine connections as we grieve for what He grieves for and rejoice with Him too.

So I know many know this, but in case there is even one person being told they shouldn't leave a church they are getting sick in because we are not to forsake the assembly of the brethren. Sometimes we can be told it is the devil calling us out, when it is God moving us forward. How is His Spirit leading you personally within?

And remember, the church is not limited to the four walls of a church.

 

[Jo555]

In any case, certainly they weren't seeing who Jesus is.

I have understood that Jesus said they broke the Law, by adding rules and self-seeking interpretations.

And they feared that Jesus was a threat to their power game.

And we want to stress, as you so rightly proclaimed, that the Lord's Spirit uses his Word to reveal Himself to us and so we can become well acquainted with his will, and in that sense guide us. Think I said a bit more, but I believe pretty much the same thing you said in a prior post.

The problems arise when we use the knowledge to lead us rather than his Spirit leading us within.

For instance, Jesus, being at one with our Heavenly Father, was fully aware that the commandment to keep the Sabbath was not intended to prevent doing good on the Sabbath, and the teachers of the law condemned Him for it because although they knew the Word of God, they were not acquainted with his heart.

Just like no one is condemning the law, we just know it is fulfilled in the love of God in Christ.

 

[Jo555]

I'd like to dive into Romans soon on this same topic of morality. I'm going to start with Romans 1, 2, & 3 on this same topic. Not sure when I'll start as may take some time, but hope can get to it soon.

If you'd like to join in, that's great, but Do not expect me to get into an endless battle of pulling scriptures from here and there because i find that process unproductive and it can lead to confusion, and egomania, which is not of God. It can also jump straight from A to Z where a good deal of interpretation and application gets lost.

Again, I'm not preventing you from joining in and welcome it, but I plan on sticking to the progression in these chapters, not jumping around out of context.

I may share my input regarding what you share on it, but if we disagree, after a couple rounds, unless really necessary to elaborate, we will have to agree to disagree. At least, that is the route I will take.

And if anyone of us are no longer operating out of love for God and each other, then we are off and need to step back until our hearts are back on track.

As time permits, will be looking to dive into Romans, hopefully soon. In the meantime, I'll cover other areas as they are laid on my heart.

Think I'm done for today. Thanks all, and thanks for the input being offered in love so we can grow in all this.

 

[Johan2222]

I don't believe in a twilight zone.
I believe there is only light, and darkness.
God is light, (1 John 1:5), and sin is darkness, (Pro 4:19)

No lie is of the truth. You are reasoning against lies.

Those who have progressed to making themselves teachers of the nonsense you argue against cannot be reasoned with.

Titus 3.10 might be worth considering.

Proverbs 26.4,5 also.

1 Timothy 5:20 KJV
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Stumbling others is a great sin for which Jesus says we will pay very dearly.

Revelation 22:11 KJV
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

[Jo555]

First, what a game. What a game! The Eagles were soaring! And loved that they gave all glory to God!

Woot woot!

A prayer, that fits right into this thread.

Go long and be ready to receive ...

Ephesians 3:
16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

------------------------

1 John 4:
18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

2 Timothy 1:
7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline.

May you have a peaceful sleep secured in his love for you. I call it crazy love because it is abnormally insanely, wonderful.

 

[Hoping2]

No lie is of the truth. You are reasoning against lies.

Those who have progressed to making themselves teachers of the nonsense you argue against cannot be reasoned with.

Titus 3.10 might be worth considering.

Proverbs 26.4,5 also.

1 Timothy 5:20 KJV
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Stumbling others is a great sin for which Jesus says we will pay very dearly.

Revelation 22:11 KJV
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Thanks for the exhortation, but I take the lessons I see here so I can use them against the bad doctrines I encounter on the streets.
This is just practice !

 

[Jo555]

Just carrying this over from a post I submitted on another thread. Fits so nicely here. Added a bit more, and may elaborate more with more time.

Here we go:

As a Christian black and white does exists, in matters of the heart.

So if you hate your brother, you murdered him with no love in your heart for him. Some even say. "He's dead to me."

Jesus gave the example of king David and his troops taking of the set aside sacred food in the temple when they were hungry. Although in society that would be considered stealing, in Christianity that would not be considered stealing because it is first a matter of the heart. He didn't do it to cause harm.

And the scriptures do tell us to submit to the governing authorities because of their temp purpose in society, until God's love is made complete, so don't walk in a 7-11 and steal them potato chips if you are hungry, just saying, it is about what motivates us. What is in the heart.

Morals can help keep order and semblance in a society made up of many people with various backgrounds and beliefs, but it is no competition for the heart. The love of God alive in the heart is what counts and overcomes.

So, if you are a Christian, for clarity, the heart of the matter is always the matter of the heart.

Why are you doing what you are doing?

There are many routes on surface that can cloud the picture; can form a grey coloring. That is often what morality does and leads to pride and other bad fruit because it makes us feel superior to those that don't agree with us, but as the scriptures say in 1 Cor. 8:1, knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. And, morality is a function of natural man, but God's love is of the Spirit of God. It is who God is.

 

[Jo555]

Just carrying this over from a post I submitted on another thread. Fits so nicely here. Added a bit more, and may elaborate more with more time.

Here we go:

As a Christian black and white does exists, in matters of the heart.

So if you hate your brother, you murdered him with no love in your heart for him. Some even say. "He's dead to me."

Jesus gave the example of king David and his troops taking of the set aside sacred food in the temple when they were hungry. Although in society that would be considered stealing, in Christianity that would not be considered stealing because it is first a matter of the heart. He didn't do it to cause harm.

And the scriptures do tell us to submit to the governing authorities because of their temp purpose in society, until God's love is made complete, so don't walk in a 7-11 and steal them potato chips if you are hungry, just saying, it is about what motivates us. What is in the heart.

Morals can help keep order and semblance in a society made up of many people with various backgrounds and beliefs, but it is no competition for the heart. The love of God alive in the heart is what counts and overcomes.

So, if you are a Christian, for clarity, the heart of the matter is always the matter if the heart. That is where black and white exist. No grey there.

Why are you doing what you are doing?

There are many routes on surface that can cloud the picture can form a grey coloring. That is often what morality does and leads to pride and other bad fruit because it makes us feel superior to those that don't agree with us, but as the scriptures say in 1 Cor. 8:1, knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. And, morality is a function of natural man, but God's love is of the Spirit of God. It is who God is.

The surface should always be found in the deep recesses of God's heart of love. Then you will be on the right route.

 

[Jo555]

And these boys say it so well. Get your dancing shoes on because the rhythm will move your feet. Extra bonus.

 

[Jo555]

Saw one of the funniest lines in a movie tonight, and by one of my favorite actors, Charleston Heston. I mean, c'mon, Moses. "The Ten Commandments" is still my favorite movie. Even today's special effects don't hold a candle to it, imo, but it may be a good deal of the awesomeness is in the story we love because it is part of our story and the awesomeness of our God.

Anyway, the line in the movie he was in that I saw tonight was so funny I couldn't stop laughing, could barely breath I laughed so long and hard. And love that they gave him that line, cause I love him.

I was going to post, but didn't know how well it would be received so ... Passed on it. Thought it was kinda fitting though when we've lost our Head named Jesus.

I have learned to laugh at myself, even if I may first grieve about something, but then I take it to our Lord and lay it at his feet knowing I'm fully loved by Him, and accepted in Christ. He makes us beautiful even when we don't look too good.

Laughter is so good for the soul, especially when we live knowing we are loved by the Lord and accepted in Christ, mess and all. Thank you Jesus for opening that door for us. Forever grateful.

Not an excuse to be messy so don't shoot the messenger. Just saying, the joy of the Lord is our strength so let his love stretch your wings and soar.

That is all I have tonight. Love you all in Christ.

Somewhat off topic, but breaks like this are needed, imo.