Unmasking Morality

[Jo555]

Ok, so this one is an example of how the Lord's Spirit can guide us over being led by what we believe is more right, or holier, etc. And, He always leads by way of Jesus.

This is a long one, but God really used this in my life, maybe it can help another.

On that note, this is how He can often teach me what He is up to in my life and how He is leading me.

So some time ago when I had a friend / tenant living with me I was in my room seeking the Lord's presence.

Wonderful right? I mean once you've been touched by God, and even experienced times of being overwhelmed by Him, who doesn't want to stay there, and I was constantly seeking it.

I call it my God bubble. Those that have heard me speak of my "thinking I'm funny" delusional bubble, it's nothing like that.

The God bubble is very real, as I know many know, and you don't want to leave it. It's like just leave me here with you until I die in your presence.

And do know this isn't something that I experience constantly and everyday. In my life, although I do feel his presence from time to time, more not than do, there is a greater measure of his presence and longer in my life, depending on what He is looking to do, and what I may need at the time, of which He knows better than I do.

Other times it's just not there and it is a walk of faith and intimately acquainted with his love that we know He is still with us.

Don't compare your life with mine, whether you feel it in less measure, not at all of yet, or greater measure.

I hesitated to share this story to avoid all that, but God, his Spirit, has taught me much about what it can be like to follow Jesus and be led by his Spirit, as his Word says, by how He manifests his Spirit working in my life. So here we go, back to the story.

So my roommate is in the living room and watching tv and I'm in my room doing the "more holy thing" of seeking his presence.

Right?

Not so fast.

I'm seeking, but nothing. It was like the heavens were shut and I kept trying to break down the door, but there was no budging.

It was ice cold it could have snowed.

So I'm growing more frustrated and aggravated with God telling Him how can He shut me out, I mean I'm doing something so good and noble and I desire to be with Him.

Right?

Nothing.

So now I'm somewhat upset with God for ignoring me. I mean I'm his child and I love Him and just want to be in his presence. So, in frustration I'm like. I'm outta here. I'm going to go watch a movie with roomie.

And that is what I did, and we had a good time, talked about various things through it all too. It was night time so I eventually go back to my room to sleep, no thought of being touched by God. My thought-He apparently wants to ignore me tonight so no point in it

So I returned to my room just looking to go to bed and the presence of God hits me, like almost immediately. There it was.

I got the message right away, that my roommate needed that, time with someone / me and that is where He wanted me at the time.

Prior to that He had been showing me things like that too. How it was becoming all about me and it was time to grow up.

It was a season where He was showing me that He didn't want me spending all my time in my God bubble because there is a whole world He is trying to reach with his love and we are also his hands and feet in this world.

So this is not something we make a doctrine out of. It is wonderful to seek his presence. We are told to ask. knock, and seek in his Word.

Babies also need more attention from their parents. Those going through difficult situations on his behalf need a fuller measure. Why these things occur to some and not others, or more on this one and less on that one isn't necessarily about what we are doing right or wrong as we tend to think that way. Yes, there are things that can hinder his presence, like trying to work for it, or feeling shame as that can be us, within, holding God at arms length ...

Don't shoot the messenger. Not saying certain things are not shameful, like continuously practicing sin with no grievance, but shame doesn't move us forward (more can be said in that).

I'm just saying, when we feel shame, internally it can be like holding God at arms length when He wants us running into his arms so He can heal us.

You can see this on a larger measure too in revivals on a larger scale, or our own personal revival He puts us through. When it passes, or weakens, we can seek a formula to bring it back, but it is ultimately what He is looking to do.

And again, not saying if He has laid on our hearts to pray for revival that we don't. We always follow Him. If "He" has laid it on your heart, then He is the one working it in you and using you to help bring it into manifestation on Earth.

He doesn't need us, but He often chooses to work through man. He does the inner working. We work out what He has worked in.

Did some branching out trying to elaborate in areas, but the point is that we can take the Word of God and make it more into a doctrine to live our lives by when it is insight into who God is and his ways.

It is one thing to read about someone, and intimately knowing them.

Yes, His Spirit does use his Word for that process too. His Word is a light unto our path, but the Spirit doesn't flow in our lives by us trying to live in Christ through doctrine and in our own strength.

 

[Jo555]

Another lesson I had in being led by his Spirit was one time I had a dream that i was walking straight ahead. My brother pops up in front of me telling me about this guy throwing accusations at him. As he is telling me this a bus stops beside us and this guy is yelling from the bus, throwing accusations our way. So I'm still walking straight and I reach a crossroad and turn left. I then woke up.

I wondered about the dream because I did sense it was a God dream, and I wondered why did I go left. I didn't think about going left. I didn't stop at the crossroad and question which way I should go. I just went left.

Then I thought of how I started out going straight, which seems to be a good route, right? I mean the straight and narrow. Why did I change direction and go left? What are you trying to tell me Lord?

So a week later i visit a new church my brother told me about. We had a couple friends that went there too. Small congregation made up of 80 percent senior citizens. I love seniors so sounded good to me.

I went by myself. Don't think any of my friends were there that day, or my brother, but the lovely seniors.

So the pastor just calls me up. He says he has a word for me. So I'm like ok. I get up there and you can see it wasn't coming in too clear to him for like 30 seconds, but then this portion he gets out real clear, "And the Lord is going to take you to the left.

So I thought, oh, there it is. So it appears it's the Lord that is going to take me to the left ...

But then he says, "And the Lord will take you to the right."

So now I'm like, now what is he talking about. I went left, not right.

Then he ends with, "And you will know it was the Lord that took you."

It was a "will know" like something I would know after the fact.

And literally that is what happened to me for real. I ended up in another fellowship and I won't go into details, but there were things happening that grieved me so, and it was stifling with doctrines and such, then I was accused of insubordination to the leadership for telling them this story snd they hounded me to repent.

I loved them, but it was like why do I have to repent, I did nothing wrong. God bless them, none of us are perfect and you have to see the heart behind it if you can. I really felt they were trying to look out for me, but i was already so grieved with some things and I was being hounded how I needed to repent. I left.

So then eventually I end up in another fellowship which appeared to be the opposite of the other one. So i didn't go because of that, but i heard the message and it appeared to be more liberal, for lack of a better word, and a place you can breath. The overseer also talked a good message; a more progressive message that appeared to me more spirituality rather than doctrine that stiffles.
.
It didn't take me too long to see that it was the wrong spirituality. Oh boy, they appeared to be more off from the place whence I came. They appeared full of themselves and proud, looking down on the otherside as if they were better, and they appeared bitter and resentful.

I was like, this is not what I signed up for. I love the other side and I am not joining some crusade to take them down.

Through this had another God dream with Jesus which I'll keep to myself because you really have to know who to share these things with.

Some people will just take it and run with it and stone each other.

 

[Jo555]

Hit post too soon. Anyway, to end this story, the grieving. The grieving on each side was what drove me to go left, then right, until I eventually left and shortly after I realized God's Spirit was leading me through that, the grievances that cries out to God for redemption, rather than crucifixion.

Actually, I sensed it throughout, and He'd clue me in at times too, but I wasn't always certain. After that journey, due to all I learned and what came of it, I have no doubt it was the Lord.

Don't doubt I was grieving for things that were grieving Him too.

We should be grieving and taking it up in intercessory prayer, or however else the Lord may lead, not growing bitter and resentful.

Grieving can be part of the birthing process through his Spirit, but we can abort that process by giving way to ill-feelings.

And I've made my share of mistakes too. God knows I was not perfect through it all, but I paid attention to when I was off within and would take the time out I needed with the Lord to get back on track.

So much he taught me through it all. And I've heard similar stories shared by others, some grieving, some bitter.

 

[Jo555]

Romans 8:
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

 

[Jo555]

So I guess you can say I come from a Charismatic background, although I don't see that any different, but if it need be categorized for some.

It sure didn't start in a church, but as a kid in my room seeking God.

Others not so much, in regards to Charismatic. What counts is that we are coming from the right heart.

There is a difference between grieving, and being bitter, between being led by the love of God alive in our hearts, and selfish ambition, etc.

The Holy Spirit does not flow through the carnal nature, or as I like to say, dirty waters.

If our motives are pure. If we are motivated by the love of God alive in our hearts, that is the condition that the Spirit will use to connect us with Father's Heart, Himself, and we will walk and flow in the Spirit.

Galatians 5:
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

 

[Jo555]

Back to Romans 1,2,3, because this is a good place, imo, to begin with the conscience. This is part 1.

And i realize I may be preaching to the choir, but I have also come to realize many are also missing these things.

Let us begin.

The beginning of chapter 1 really shows Paul's deep love for others. Rome is calling and he's like a pa pa longing to be in their presence again to encourage his children and be encouraged by them.

It is a great example as to what it looks like to be driven by the love of God.

He then speaks of the gospel, which he proclaims without shame for it is the power of God unto salvation for those who believe.

17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[e] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

Paul then goes on to speak about unbelievers. He starts by stating that all of creation clearly gives witness to the existence of God, but we can suppress the truth.

All have a knowledge of God, but they don't acknowledge Him, choosing their own wisdom, they've become foolish and their hearts darkened. They choose to worship creation over the Creator. Therefore, God gave them over to their sinful desires and depraved minds.

The wrath of God is upon such people, for their hearts and minds are full of wickedness, and they approve of those that do the same.

Romans 2

As if knowing what would come next, looking down on those that don't acknowledge God and condemning them, Paul now goes on to address those that acknowledge God.

Paul sternly condemns such behavior from mere human beings, for at whatever point we judge another we are condemning ourselves for we do the same things. More in that in the continuance (pt 2).

He wants to make it clear that God's judgement is righteous judgement, and not human judgement, and it is based on truth.

Paul then goes on to say how serious a matter it is for a mere human being to pass judgement on another and do the same thing. In doing so, we can show contempt for God's kindness, forbearance, and patience that is meant to lead us all to repentance. Furthermore, neither will those who judge and do the same escape God's judgement.

Stubbornness and unrepentance is their folly.


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I'll stop here for now, but will continue soon. In the continuation we will get into the conscience and the knowledge of good and evil.

And remember, this is just the beginning of the story. So yes, there is much more to say on it, but instead of jumping from A right to W or Z, let's go with the unfolding progression so we don't lose interpretation and application.

If you disagree with what I have to share, or want to share more, that's fine, just know I'm going to stick with the progression because I find that in jumping around, interpretation and application can be lost and it can lead to confusion. And, we know confusion is not of God.

 

[Jo555]

To continue with our exploration of Romans 1,2,3.

So we have already established that it is sheer folly for mere human beings to pass judgement on others when we are committing the same sins ourselves.

This reminds me of John 3:17-21. Everyone knows John 3:16, but many miss how crucially important are the verses that follow afterward. God is did not send his son to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. The matter of condemnation is a matter of unbelief because some love the darkness over the light (Romans 1).

Moving on to the second half of our exploration ...

This next area in Romans I've seen used to advocate counting on works for salvation, but we must remember the progression in the story, especially Romans because it gives a summary of our Christian journey from beginning to end. So, Paul is establishing the promises for those that depart from evil and do good under the old covenant with the law.

This is the way of the law. Keep it and live. Don't keep it and die.

Romans 2:
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Obedience and righteousness still stands for today, but through the new covenant sealed by the blood of Jesus. But for now, let's not get too far ahead of the story and continue in progression.

But what of the Gentiles who were never given the law?

Now we are moving to conscience. The bible is clear that all of humanity have a knowledge of the law within their conscience and their natural man's heart. I call it a light for the knowledge of God is a light, a darkened, shadowy light in our conscience, but that word "light" offends some due to unbelievers being in spiritual darkness, therefore, even their good deeds are shrouded by darkness.

So I do not to offend unnecessarily, and to bring clarity so we are not going down a rabbit hole, for the rest of this exploration I will continue to use the term "a knowledge of God". Either term works.

More to say on that later for some of us professing to be in the light may still be in darkness.

Romans 2:
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Paul then goes on to show the foolishness of boasting in the knowledge and truth we have gained from the law when we ourselves are lawbreakers for the heart of the matter is the matter of the heart. As Jesus said on the sermon on the mount, if we hate our brethren, we've murdered him. If we lust, adultery, etc. And what is the result of this foolish thinking and boasting in the law?

Romans 2:
23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”[b]

Paul has build a case, through scripture and inspired by God, for all being sin-ridden. We are rotten from core to core. Then, as if addressing those that may question what is the point of being a Jew, he covers the advantages of being one, like being entrusted with the words of God and the recipients of the promises He has made to his people.

We are told that even if we are unfaithful, God is always faithful.

Some say God can't be boxed. I like to say that God can be boxed, to a degree. Who God is will never change. He is love, He is Faithful, He is good, etc. He can also be boxed in his promises. His promises are guaranteed. Everything else is up for change as He deems necessary.

I also see in layers, like regarding who God is and our personal journeys. I see corporate grace for his ultimate, corporate plan that He will carry through, and then there is grace for our personal journeys. We are told grace is given to the humble and if no humility (we can do nothing apart from Him), no grace to see us through.

I'm actually going to stop here and make this a three part exploration of Romans 1,2,3 and as it connects to morality and conscience. Trying not to make any part too long so we can take in the progressing portions.

 

[stevevw]

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As believers we are called to be like God, holy as He is holy. We were created for this, as sons and daughters embodied by his Spirit through Christ, totally dependent on Him accomplishing this.

Holiness is a matter of the heart; a heart born again by the Lord's Spirit and embodied by his Spirit.

Unfortunately, many of us are still being deceived into thinking we can be like God by partaking of the knowledge of good and evil, which equates to morality.

Morality is not holiness. Morality is a cheap carbon copy and an imposter.

Holiness through morality is a lie straight from the mouth of the enemy of our souls that is meant to entice our human nature into thinking we can be what we were already predestined to be, like God. It tells us we can be like God apart from Him.

Morality results in pride and death for we often compare our moral code with others and look down our noses at them (not that I've walked perfectly there myself).

Our standard is not our neighbor, or some moral and ethical code derived from partaking of the knowledge of good and evil. Our standard is the heart of God found in Christ.

Morality is not holiness. Morality poses as holiness, but is an imposter. It's deception that feeds our egos instead of our desire for union with God.

Let us unmask this deception and reveal it for what it is, an imposter meant to rob us of our destiny.

Let us see it for what it truly is, a deathtrap and a killer of humanity.

Morality is opposed to life in the Spirit. Its lie is as old as our beginnings in the Garden of Eden. Yet, why wouldn't the enemy keep using that lie if it is still working for him.

Unmask the lie in your life and tell it to take a hike.

2 Timothy 3:
3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

That almost sounds like Woke or PC lol. Thats a form of virtue signalling while at the same time indulging in the best this world has to offer. Lecturing about equality and fairness and championing the poor while piling up riches and power on earth as gods.

I think salvation is a two sided coin. We are transformed in heart and mind by the spirit of God and therefore our nature is now to please God.

But at the same time faith is dead without action. Without cultivating your faith and putting your trust in God.

We have a measuring guage for this which is the fruits of the spirit. You named the bad fruits but living in the spirit produces good fruits and these naturally flow not because of our own efforts but because Christ is living in us.

 

[Jo555]

That almost sounds like Woke or PC lol. Thats a form of virtue signalling while at the same time indulging in the best this world has to offer. Lecturing about equality and fairness and championing the poor while piling up riches and power on earth as gods.

I think salvation is a two sided coing. We are transformed in heart and mind by the spirit of God and therefore our nature is now to please God and not to keep the law to please God.

But at the same time faith is dead without action. Without cultivating your faith and putting your trust in God.

We have a measuring guage for this which is the fruits of the spirit. You named the bad fruits but kiving in the spirit produces good fruits and these naturally flow not because of our own efforts but because Christ is living in us.

Let me step aside and give you the floor. Digging it.

And yes. It is where Romans starts, therefore where I started regarding fruit. I didn't plan on going past chptrs 1,2,3, in this thread, but He does like to interrupt my plans.

I'm really having a desire to make another thread on Romans, starting on chapter 1 again. I'm hoping to start it soon.

It's a summary of our journeys so think it is a good one to dive into for that.