Difficult Times Ahead

[Aabbie James]

2 Timothy 3:1-7 But know this: Difficult times will come in the last days. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good, traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to the form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid these people! For among them are those who worm their way into households and capture idle women burdened down with sins, led along by a variety of passions, always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Is the Apostle Paul correct in his letter to Timothy?

Discuss...

Are you absolutely sure that you don't believe in absolute truth?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

2 Timothy 3:1-7 But know this: Difficult times will come in the last days. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good, traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to the form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid these people! For among them are those who worm their way into households and capture idle women burdened down with sins, led along by a variety of passions, always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Is the Apostle Paul correct in his letter to Timothy?

Discuss...

Are you absolutely sure that you don't believe in absolute truth?

All we have to do is to watch television and read the newspaper to see that Paul was absolutely right!

 

[Aabbie James]

All we have to do is to watch television and read the newspaper to see that Paul was absolutely right!

And Paul says it so much better...in scripture: 2 Timothy 3:1-7

 

[Paidiske]

I voted for your fourth option because I see that the attitude and language churches (and church leaders) use often alienates people from the gospel.

That does not mean I think we should cease to proclaim the good news, it means I think we need to pay attention to how we do that.

 

[Lost4words]

Difficult times ahead has been on the menu since Christianity was born. Every generation has been a witness to them.

 

[devin553344]

Paul appears to be describing the times now. At least from what I witness all around. Also the truth can be a very difficult thing to accept. Can be painful to accept and humbling.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Difficult times ahead has been on the menu since Christianity was born. Every generation has been a witness to them.

Truth. It has always been difficult for those who have been enlightened and come to know the eternal stakes of life. Even in plenty they hurt, knowing what the choosing of unbelief will cost others.

 

[Aabbie James]

Paul appears to be describing the times now. At least from what I witness all around. Also the truth can be a very difficult thing to accept. Can be painful to accept and humbling.

Matthew 11:28-30 "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

 

[ViaCrucis]

If by "word of God" you mean the unalterable, unfailing truth of Christ and His Gospel; and this which we can reliably find and encounter in the divinely inspired Scriptures should be held to, depended upon, and cleaved to in faith for Christ's sake--then I vote number 1.

But if the intended meaning is along more biblicist lines of thinking (e.g. rejecting science because of a woodenly literal interpretation of Genesis 1), then I don't think I can quite vote on any of the above.

I believe in the unfailing truth of the Gospel, not in contrived modernistic views of the Bible or in some sort of unrealistic belief in human moral or social progress.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Aabbie James]

If by "word of God" you mean the unalterable, unfailing truth of Christ and His Gospel; and this which we can reliably find and encounter in the divinely inspired Scriptures should be held to, depended upon, and cleaved to in faith for Christ's sake--then I vote number 1.

But if the intended meaning is along more biblicist lines of thinking (e.g. rejecting science because of a woodenly literal interpretation of Genesis 1), then I don't think I can quite vote on any of the above.

I believe in the unfailing truth of the Gospel, not in contrived modernistic views of the Bible or in some sort of unrealistic belief in human moral or social progress.

-CryptoLutheran

When do we take the Bible literally?

 

[Aabbie James]

If by "word of God" you mean the unalterable, unfailing truth of Christ and His Gospel; and this which we can reliably find and encounter in the divinely inspired Scriptures should be held to, depended upon, and cleaved to in faith for Christ's sake--then I vote number 1.

But if the intended meaning is along more biblicist lines of thinking (e.g. rejecting science because of a woodenly literal interpretation of Genesis 1), then I don't think I can quite vote on any of the above.

I believe in the unfailing truth of the Gospel, not in contrived modernistic views of the Bible or in some sort of unrealistic belief in human moral or social progress.

-CryptoLutheran

Is the Apostle Paul correct in his letter to Timothy?

 

[ViaCrucis]

When do we take the Bible literally?

I'd argue when it should be. The Bible isn't a homogenous or monolithic thing, it's a collection of many different kinds of books, written by many different people, across many centuries, in different cultures, under different circumstances. So we simply can't treat the Bible like it's some single homogenous book, it's a library of many different books. So by that fact alone it demands that we take the texts seriously on their own merits, not by imposing our own ideas upon the texts. It would be pretty wrong to walk into your local public library and try and read the Illiad the same way you would read a book on calculus or read a biography on Alexander the Great the same way you would read the Lord of the Rings. Different books, different literary genera, different intents by the authors, different ways of reading them in order to be faithful to the texts themselves.

We should, at the very least, give the same level of serious to Holy Scripture.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Is the Apostle Paul correct in his letter to Timothy?

Yes, Scripture is divinely inspired.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Walter and Deborah]

2 Timothy 3:1-7 But know this: Difficult times will come in the last days. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good, traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to the form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid these people! For among them are those who worm their way into households and capture idle women burdened down with sins, led along by a variety of passions, always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Is the Apostle Paul correct in his letter to Timothy?

Discuss...

Are you absolutely sure that you don't believe in absolute truth?

yes, Paul spoke by revelation to Timothy in the above scripture.

yes, I believe in that truth.

 

[Aabbie James]

I'd argue when it should be. The Bible isn't a homogenous or monolithic thing, it's a collection of many different kinds of books, written by many different people, across many centuries, in different cultures, under different circumstances. So we simply can't treat the Bible like it's some single homogenous book, it's a library of many different books. So by that fact alone it demands that we take the texts seriously on their own merits, not by imposing our own ideas upon the texts. It would be pretty wrong to walk into your local public library and try and read the Illiad the same way you would read a book on calculus or read a biography on Alexander the Great the same way you would read the Lord of the Rings. Different books, different literary genera, different intents by the authors, different ways of reading them in order to be faithful to the texts themselves.

We should, at the very least, give the same level of serious to Holy Scripture.

-CryptoLutheran

With respect to rightly handling the Word of God I point us to the Apostle Paul's advice given to Timothy.

2 Timothy 2:15-16 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn’t need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth. But avoid irreverent, empty speech, for this will produce an even greater measure of godlessness.

 

[Aabbie James]

I voted for your fourth option because I see that the attitude and language churches (and church leaders) use often alienates people from the gospel.

That does not mean I think we should cease to proclaim the good news, it means I think we need to pay attention to how we do that.

With respect to teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, when we use the term alienate, would we agree that many unbelievers will reject the true Gospel, and that to love an unbeliever is to teach them the true Gospel; and to hate the unbeliever is to teach them a false Gospel. The Holy Spirit of God's inspired author of Hebrews puts the matter rather bluntly:

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

 

[Aabbie James]

Yes, Scripture is divinely inspired.

-CryptoLutheran

So it is written...

 

[Paidiske]

With respect to teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, when we use the term alienate, would we agree that many unbelievers will reject the true Gospel, and that to love an unbeliever is to teach them the true Gospel; and to hate the unbeliever is to teach them a false Gospel.

I agree with that statement on face value, but I suspect that it leads you and I to very different outcomes in terms of behaviour. Many people are alienated because of the way we present the gospel, and because of the appallingly bad behaviour of many Christians, and we need to get those things right before we can expect any sort of positive response.

 

[Aabbie James]

2 Timothy 3:1-7 But know this: Difficult times will come in the last days. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good, traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to the form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid these people! For among them are those who worm their way into households and capture idle women burdened down with sins, led along by a variety of passions, always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

There will be many who call themselves Christians because they are taught a false Gospel and believe a false Gospel.

Luke 6:45-47 The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil treasure of his heart. For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say? I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them:…

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Why do we go and preach, proclaiming the gospel in the midst of the rejection we face in the world? We do that because there is a holy seed, a remnant, and they have to hear. May we be faithful to proclaim that message until such time that our Lord returns: to deal out retribution to those who do not obey the gospel, and bring eternal rest to those who do.

God loves us and sacrificed Christ to pay the penalty for our sins in His own body. Wondrous it is for us to be forgiven, cleansed, and even sent, for as long as there is somebody to talk to, to tell people that judgment is coming, but salvation is available.

 

[Aabbie James]

I agree with that statement on face value, but I suspect that it leads you and I to very different outcomes in terms of behaviour. Many people are alienated because of the way we present the gospel, and because of the appallingly bad behaviour of many Christians, and we need to get those things right before we can expect any sort of positive response.

In light of 2 Timothy 3:1-7 what scriptures do you preach that describe how "we present the gospel?"