Difference between Eastern and Western Orthodox

[All4Christ]

Also, OCA, Antiochian, Greek, ROCOR, etc are all jurisdictions in Orthodoxy with the same beliefs and doctrine.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Eastern Orthodox.
From about the 4th century onward, the Church was headed by five patriachates in Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople and Rome. Around the 11th century, Rome separated and became what is now the Catholic Church. The remaining patriarchates are what is known as the Eastern Orthodox Church

Same as every other Eastern Orthodox Church

So it just means an Orthodox church whose "parish" or Bishop is in Antioch?

But @Not David doesn't come from that area....?

 

[GodsGrace101]

oh you do learn by going. Orthodoxy's best teacher is the Liturgy. not just in what we say, but also in what we do.

and to your second point, I would say not exactly. justification is sanctification.

OK. I know what you mean now.

As to Justfctn and Sanctfctn, I could understand how being justified also sanctifies us (sets us apart).
But I understand sanctification to be a life-long procedure. I wanted to say effort...but being Christian doesn't feel like an effort to me. (sometimes it does).

 

[All4Christ]

OK. I know what you mean now.

As to Justfctn and Sanctfctn, I could understand how being justified also sanctifies us (sets us apart).
But I understand sanctification to be a life-long procedure. I wanted to say effort...but being Christian doesn't feel like an effort to me. (sometimes it does).

That life long process is what we call theosis

 

[ArmyMatt]

OK. I know what you mean now.

As to Justfctn and Sanctfctn, I could understand how being justified also sanctifies us (sets us apart).
But I understand sanctification to be a life-long procedure. I wanted to say effort...but being Christian doesn't feel like an effort to me. (sometimes it does).

if God is our justification, and He is infinite, then we can always become more justified.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I’d like to address what you mentioned about justification and sanctification more from the perspective of someone who previously was Protestant, but I am at work now and have had a crazy week. I will try to do so soon. Suffice to say, there are some things that can be seen parallel and others that are different regarding those doctrines. However - from a Pentecostal perspective - it wasn’t a big jump for me in that subject once I understood the language and concepts used.

Regaeding attending the Church to learn - in Orthodoxy, our hymnography teaches our faith, as well as various other things. It is really important for learning the faith, especially since books, learning and questions only give you part of the overall faith (its more than just theology)

I certainly did a lot of research before stepping into the church, but I learned a lot as well once I started to attend. My process was reading a lot, asking questions here and to other Orthodox Christians, starting to attend catechism classes right as I started visiting the church (before I decided to become a catechumen), and then when Pascha (Easter) came, I knew for sure that it was where God wanted me to be. It still took a long time after that though, as the catechism is designed to ensure you understand the faith before committing to it.

If you look at the first few pages of TAW, you will see the I posted way a LONG time before I became Orthodox it was a journey and still is a journey for me.

Thanks so much for such a helpful post.
What you say is exactly what I'm speaking about.
IOW,,,,before making any change, I want to be 95% sure of what I'm doing.

Protestantism makes me a little crazy due to all the arguing that goes on. I do believe there needs to be a governing body that keeps everyone on the right track. Kind of like a conductor that makes the band or orchestra make beautiful music.

I wonder what you mean by the statement that it's more than just theology.

I look forward to your post about Justfctn and Sanctfctn....I also have a feeling it's just different words but the same idea. Maybe.

Also, would you say that within the Orthodox church there are born again Christians and some that are not born again? This was true in the CC.

Thanks!

 

[GodsGrace101]

That life long process is what we call theosis

Theo sis....
Does this mean becoming like God?

 

[GodsGrace101]

if God is our justification, and He is infinite, then we can always become more justified.

I don't understand Justfctn then.
One cannot be more justified....
but one can be more sanctified.

It would take a bit of conversation....
I'm not sure you care to do this because your answers are always short. Maybe you don't have the time....

 

[All4Christ]

Theo sis....
Does this mean becoming like God?

Pretty much so when talking about it from a Protestant perspective. It is similar to sanctification in the Holiness side of Protestants (becoming Holy) finalized in the resurrection when at the end of our earthly life / last judgment, etc.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Pretty much so when talking about it from a Protestant perspective. It is similar to sanctification in the Holiness side of Protestants.

I attended a holiness church for about 10 yeas and it's my favorite Protestant denomination.

 

[All4Christ]

I attended a holiness church for about 10 yeas and it's my favorite Protestant denomination.

Yep, it was surprising how many things carried over.

 

[All4Christ]

I attended a holiness church for about 10 yeas and it's my favorite Protestant denomination.

Have a meeting now so I’ll be back later

 

[Phronema]

What to you mean by confession?

The Sacrament of Confession. It would be similar to what you're used to in a Roman Catholic church, but there are no booths. In our parish you confess in front of an icon of Christ, and only Father is present. Once the confession is over he will give spiritual advice to try and help you.

As for the frequency of confession that is something you'd need to speak with the priest of the parish you'd be attending about as it can differ from parish to parish, and jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Generally though I've been taught it's not good to approach the chalice casually, and to do so may be unto our condemnation.

See 1 Corinthians 11:27-29, and it's also referenced in our pre-communion prayers. This is the one I usually say per my Godfather's instruction.

A Prayer of St. John Chrysostom

I believe, O Lord, and I confess that thou art truly the Christ, the Son of the living God, who didst come into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. And I believe that this is truly thine own precious Body, and that this is truly thine own precious Blood. Wherefore I pray thee, have mercy upon me and forgive my transgressions both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, of knowledge and of ignorance; and make me worthy to partake without condemnation of thine immaculate Mysteries, unto remission of my sins and unto life everlasting. Amen.

Of thy Mystic Supper, O Son of God, accept me today as a communicant: for I will not speak of thy Mystery to thine enemies, neither will I give thee a kiss as did Judas; but like the thief will I confess thee: Remember me, O Lord, in thy Kingdom.

Not unto judgment nor unto condemnation be my partaking of thy Holy Mysteries, O Lord, but unto the healing of soul and body.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The Sacrament of Confession. It would be similar to what you're used to in a Roman Catholic church, but there are no booths. In our parish you confess in front of an icon of Christ, and only Father is present. Once the confession is over he will give spiritual advice to try and help you.

As for the frequency of confession that is something you'd need to speak with the priest of the parish you'd be attending about as it can differ from parish to parish, and jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Generally though I've been taught it's not good to approach the chalice casually, and to do so may be unto our condemnation.

See 1 Corinthians 11:27-29, and it's also referenced in our pre-communion prayers. This is the one I usually say per my Godfather's instruction.

A Prayer of St. John Chrysostom

I believe, O Lord, and I confess that thou art truly the Christ, the Son of the living God, who didst come into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. And I believe that this is truly thine own precious Body, and that this is truly thine own precious Blood. Wherefore I pray thee, have mercy upon me and forgive my transgressions both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, of knowledge and of ignorance; and make me worthy to partake without condemnation of thine immaculate Mysteries, unto remission of my sins and unto life everlasting. Amen.

Of thy Mystic Supper, O Son of God, accept me today as a communicant: for I will not speak of thy Mystery to thine enemies, neither will I give thee a kiss as did Judas; but like the thief will I confess thee: Remember me, O Lord, in thy Kingdom.

Not unto judgment nor unto condemnation be my partaking of thy Holy Mysteries, O Lord, but unto the healing of soul and body.

Thanks Phronema.
This is indeed very much like the practice of the CC.
The prayer is also very similar....

OH MY GOD, I AM HEARTILY SORRY FOR HAVING OFFENDED THEE BECAUSE I DREAD THE LOSS OF HEAVEN AND THE PAINS OF HELL. BUT MOST OF ALL, BECAUSE THEY OFFEND THEE MY GOD, WHO ART ALL GOOD AND DESERVING OF ALL MY LOVE.
I FIRMLY RESOLVE, WITH THE HELP OF THEY GRACE, TO CONFESS MY SINS, TO DO PENANCE AND TO AMEND MY LIFE. AMEN.

It's just that I've always had a problem with confession. This sacrament was not instituted for hundreds of years after Jesus' death and changed many times. It's difficult to accept everything a denomination teaches.

In orthodoxy, is it necessary to believe all the doctrines?

 

[Phronema]

Thanks Phronema.
This is indeed very much like the practice of the CC.
The prayer is also very similar....

OH MY GOD, I AM HEARTILY SORRY FOR HAVING OFFENDED THEE BECAUSE I DREAD THE LOSS OF HEAVEN AND THE PAINS OF HELL. BUT MOST OF ALL, BECAUSE THEY OFFEND THEE MY GOD, WHO ART ALL GOOD AND DESERVING OF ALL MY LOVE.
I FIRMLY RESOLVE, WITH THE HELP OF THEY GRACE, TO CONFESS MY SINS, TO DO PENANCE AND TO AMEND MY LIFE. AMEN.

It's just that I've always had a problem with confession. This sacrament was not instituted for hundreds of years after Jesus' death and changed many times. It's difficult to accept everything a denomination teaches.

In orthodoxy, is it necessary to believe all the doctrines?

As far as I'm aware it is, but there's a reason why. In the case of confession it's part of the spiritual medicine that the church is offering, and using to heal our broken state. Without confession there's no repentance, and with no repentance how could we hope to ever become more like Him?

That's part of the goal of theosis that All4Christ mentioned above. Our goal is to become more like Him. St Athanasius in "On the Incarnation", said "God became man so that man might become god”.

And I do believe there was confession in the early church. It's mentioned in the Didache which dates to around 70 A.D.

Edit : Also, let me add that I'd recommend taking it slow. Learn about the Orthodox church through the Divine Liturgy as Fr. Matt and others have suggested, also any catechumen classes offered by the parish, and ask the priest questions. Overall understanding the why behind some of the things that we do may help immensely.

 

[AMM]

So it just means an Orthodox church whose "parish" or Bishop is in Antioch?

But @Not David doesn't come from that area....?

yep, and that's because of immigration and missionary efforts. One of our saints, St Raphael of Brooklyn, was an Antiochian bishop (under the Patriarch of Antioch), but he ministered in the United States. Eventually that became the "Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America"

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't understand Justfctn then.
One cannot be more justified....
but one can be more sanctified.

It would take a bit of conversation....
I'm not sure you care to do this because your answers are always short. Maybe you don't have the time....

who says you can't be more justified?

 

[All4Christ]

Thanks Phronema.
This is indeed very much like the practice of the CC.
The prayer is also very similar....

OH MY GOD, I AM HEARTILY SORRY FOR HAVING OFFENDED THEE BECAUSE I DREAD THE LOSS OF HEAVEN AND THE PAINS OF HELL. BUT MOST OF ALL, BECAUSE THEY OFFEND THEE MY GOD, WHO ART ALL GOOD AND DESERVING OF ALL MY LOVE.
I FIRMLY RESOLVE, WITH THE HELP OF THEY GRACE, TO CONFESS MY SINS, TO DO PENANCE AND TO AMEND MY LIFE. AMEN.

It's just that I've always had a problem with confession. This sacrament was not instituted for hundreds of years after Jesus' death and changed many times. It's difficult to accept everything a denomination teaches.

In orthodoxy, is it necessary to believe all the doctrines?

Quick thing about confession - For confession, it actually was done in the very early church, except it was in front of the entire church. It even talks about it in scripture. It wasn’t identical but the concept was there even at that time. We also believe that it is God who forgives. The priest is a witness to our confession. That’s why we have the icon of Jesus in front.

 

[All4Christ]

Thanks Phronema.
This is indeed very much like the practice of the CC.
The prayer is also very similar....

OH MY GOD, I AM HEARTILY SORRY FOR HAVING OFFENDED THEE BECAUSE I DREAD THE LOSS OF HEAVEN AND THE PAINS OF HELL. BUT MOST OF ALL, BECAUSE THEY OFFEND THEE MY GOD, WHO ART ALL GOOD AND DESERVING OF ALL MY LOVE.
I FIRMLY RESOLVE, WITH THE HELP OF THEY GRACE, TO CONFESS MY SINS, TO DO PENANCE AND TO AMEND MY LIFE. AMEN.

It's just that I've always had a problem with confession. This sacrament was not instituted for hundreds of years after Jesus' death and changed many times. It's difficult to accept everything a denomination teaches.

In orthodoxy, is it necessary to believe all the doctrines?

There are a core set of dogmas / doctrines and some theologumen (areas that allow for different opinions). That’s one purpose of the catechism - to make sure you can agree or at least accept the core parts before fully committing to it with Chrismation.

 

[All4Christ]

It’s important to learn the beliefs and also learn why the Orthodox Church teaches them. There were things I originally disagreed with that I agreed with after praying and learning the “why”.