Did Yahshua Rise on the 7th Day Shabbat...

[daq]

Guess you must have missed the obvious fact that before God created time and the world that there were no seasons before Genesis 1:1? Sigh...

And in regards to what season God began the world in see post #201.

If there were no seasons then why did you use spring time, and all the beautiful plants and flowers, and the supposed correlation to the third day of creation, in support your hypothesis? Moreover, whether you realize it or not, right now in the southern hemisphere it is summer.

 

[daq]

@daq Dear brother I have one simple question:

Does life begin with your death?

A silly question on the surface I know...but what I find funny about the line of reasoning of those who believe that the year begins in the fall, and the day begins in the evening, or even midnight:

It's like saying God starts your life with you dead...and then brings you to life? Or even hilarious still that you begin your day when it's time to sleep.

These things are contrary to the natural order of things and isn't supported by Scripture.

Before Adam was given the breath of life to live: he never existed.

Allegorize that.

I see you have once again lost your cool. Some people just cannot handle their theories being put into question.

 

[Humble Penny]

If there were no seasons then why did you use spring time, and all the beautiful plants and flowers, and the supposed correlation to the third day of creation, in support your hypothesis? Moreover, whether you realize it or not, right now in the southern hemisphere it is summer.

Lol! There were no seasons before Genesis 1:1...you claim that creation began in the autumn with no proof.

The season of spring began on Day 3 with the sign of plant life ha ha ha...not with leaves falling from trees and withering trees.

 

[Humble Penny]

I see you have once again lost your cool. Some people just cannot handle their theories being put into question.

Or some refuse to take the post #195 test...

 

[klutedavid]

Samuel the Prophet is not the Torah. However both passages you quoted contain hodesh, not yerach, and the LXX renders both verses as the second (day) of the month, (μηνος), not "new moon", which is strictly an English translation based on Sanhedrin authority and Pharisaic teachings. Moreover verses five and eighteen also contain hodesh, not yerach, and in both of those instances the LXX renders hodesh as new month, (νουμηνια/νεομηνια), not new moon, just as it does most everywhere else with hodesh, and this is the same word likewise used in the Apostolic writings.

1 Samuel 20:5 OG LXX
5 και ειπεν δαυιδ προς ιωναθαν ιδου δη νεομηνια αυριον και εγω καθισας ου καθησομαι μετα του βασιλεως φαγειν και εξαποστελεις με και κρυβησομαι εν τω πεδιω εως δειλης

1 Samuel 20:18 OG LXX
18 και ειπεν ιωναθαν αυριον νουμηνια και επισκεπηση οτι επισκεπησεται καθεδρα σου

1 Samuel 20:27 OG LXX
27 και εγενηθη τη επαυριον του μηνος τη ημερα τη δευτερα και επεσκεπη ο τοπος του δαυιδ και ειπεν σαουλ προς ιωναθαν τον υιον αυτου τι οτι ου παραγεγονεν ο υιος ιεσσαι και εχθες και σημερον επι την τραπεζαν

1 Samuel 20:34 OG LXX
34 και ανεπηδησεν ιωναθαν απο της τραπεζης εν οργη θυμου και ουκ εφαγεν εν τη δευτερα του μηνος αρτον οτι εθραυσθη επι τον δαυιδ οτι συνετελεσεν επ αυτον ο πατηρ αυτου

Colossians 2:16 T/R
16 μη ουν τις υμας κρινετω εν βρωσει η εν ποσει η εν μερει εορτης η νουμηνιας η σαββατων

Colossians 2:16 W/H
16 μη ουν τις υμας κρινετω εν βρωσει και εν ποσει η εν μερει εορτης η νεομηνιας η σαββατων

μηνος = G3376 μην = a month
G3561 νουμηνια/νεομηνια = G3501 νεος (new) + G3376 μην (month)

σεληνη = G4582 selene = the moon
G4583 σεληνιαζομαι = moon-struck (Mat 4:24, 17:15)

I just consulted the Greek LXX and copied the Greek text in 1 Samuel 20:5

I then translated the Greek into English and the phrase, 'new moon', is what is written in the Greek text. Where did you get your Koine Greek translation of 1 Samuel 20:5 from?

Your suggestion:

The Greek word, μηνος = G3376 μην = a month
G3561 νουμηνια/νεομηνια = G3501 νεος (new) + G3376 μην (month)

μην is not in the Koine Greek LXX (1 Samuel 20:5).

 

[daq]

I just consulted the Greek LXX and copied the Greek text in 1 Samuel 20:5

I then translated the Greek into English and the phrase, 'new moon', is what is written in the Greek text. Where did you get your Koine Greek translation of 1 Samuel 20:5 from?

Your suggestion:

The Greek word, μηνος = G3376 μην = a month
G3561 νουμηνια/νεομηνια = G3501 νεος (new) + G3376 μην (month)

μην is not in the Koine Greek LXX (1 Samuel 20:5).

It's true, G3561 noumenia/neomenia is a compound word formed with G3501 neos, which means new, and G3376 men, which is a month. There is nothing in that compound word about the moon. Like I said, that's strictly English translations based on a Sanhedrin Pharisaic understanding of the calculation of the year according to the lunar cycle. In other words it is strictly based on tradition and not what is actually in the texts. Just because a lexicon may say that noumenia is a new moon doesn't make it true. The word literally means new month.

 

[klutedavid]

It's true, G3561 noumenia/neomenia is a compound word formed with G3501 neos, which means new, and G3376 men, which is a month. There is nothing in that compound word about the moon. Like I said, that's strictly English translations based on a Sanhedrin Pharisaic understanding of the calculation of the year according to the lunar cycle. In other words it is strictly based on tradition and not what is actually in the texts. Just because a lexicon may say that noumenia is a new moon doesn't make it true. The word literally means new month.

I simply translated the Koine Greek text. I did not follow any tradition in doing that. The LXX Koine Greek version of, 1 Samuel 20:5 , does not mention, 'month', in the Koine Greek.

 

[daq]

I simply translated the Koine Greek text. I did not follow any tradition in doing that. The LXX Koine Greek version of, 1 Samuel 20:5 , does not mention, 'month', in the Koine Greek.

I already quoted it once and I know what it says:

1 Samuel 20:5 OG LXX
5 και ειπεν δαυιδ προς ιωναθαν ιδου δη νεομηνια αυριον και εγω καθισας ου καθησομαι μετα του βασιλεως φαγειν και εξαποστελεις με και κρυβησομαι εν τω πεδιω εως δειλης

νεομηνια = new month

 

[Filippus]

Feast of Unleavened Bread/Passover
14th Day of Abib (Tuesday)
1st Day of Unleavened Bread/Passover (evening)
Christ is buried before evening.
Christ dies on cross at 9th Hour (i.e. 3 p.m.)
Christ crucified at 6th Hour (i.e. 12 p.m.)
Christ sentenced by Pilate (late morning)
Christ stands before Herod (mid morning)
Christ stands before Pilate (morning)

I can see and follow your reasoning.

Before a Tuesday or Wednesday crucifixion can even be considered, you will require two Sabbaths in a row.

The Wednesday plus Thursday Sabbath and because you have placed the crucifixion on a Tuesday you only have one Annual on Wednesday. Eliminating the whole argument.

On the other hand, the Thursday crucifixion relies on the 15th or the 21st to fall on a Friday, allowing for an annual and weekly double Sabbath explained by John 19:31.

I have seen that you are examining the link between the resurrection and the sixth day, but have you explored the link between the crucifixion and the sixth day?

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

But should we believe the timeline of the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus? They said THAT day (Sunday) was the 3rd day since the events happened. The day those events happened would have been on erev Shabbat.

As you know it all depends on where you start your reference count.

 

[Filippus]

Are you replying to me? Not sure what you are doing...I said that Aviv 15 was a Shabbat that year...

No, I was simply adding more info showing the 50-day link between Firstfruit and Shavuot, Shavuot also falling on the 15th.

 

[Filippus]

I'm not sure of the purpose of presenting those calendars which have more days than a lunar cycle; so I didn't include them in the quote.

This doesn't seem to work for Shavuot

What is 51/~28?

The 26th is Firstfruit. The 1st day after unleavened bread
The 28th second month the 40th day or Ascension.

 

[Filippus]

So is the 15th "during the feast"?

Then were gathered together the chief priests, and the elders of the people, unto the court of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas; and they took counsel together that they might take Jesus by subtlety, and kill him. But they said, Not during the feast, lest a tumult arise among people.

Exactly my point!

On the festival, points directly to the 14th when the people prepared the lambs for the Pesach that evening of the 15th, He was crucified several days later.

 

[HARK!]

The 26th is Firstfruit. The 1st day after unleavened bread
The 28th second month the 40th day or Ascension.

(CLV) Lv 23:6
And on the fifteenth day of this month is the festival of unleavened bread to Yahweh. Seven days shall you eat unleavened bread.

(CLV) Lv 23:7
On the first day you shall come to have a holy meeting, when you shall do not occupational work at all.

(CLV) Lv 23:8
And you will bring near a fire offering to Yahweh seven days. On the seventh day is a holy meeting, when you shall do not occupational work at all.

(CLV) Lv 23:9
Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying:

(CLV) Lv 23:10
Speak to the sons of Israel, and you will say to them, When you come into the land which I am giving to you and reap its harvest, you will bring a sheaf of the firstfruit of your harvest to the priest.

This is Bikkurim.

(CLV) Lv 23:11
He will wave the sheaf before Yahweh for acceptance on your behalf. From the morrow of the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

From the morrow of the Shabbat. This is the first day of the week, no? The day after Shabbat? How could YHWH be calling day 1 of Hag Matzot the Shabbat in this case?

Let's test by my understanding Let's call this day one in out count, the first day of the week.

If you wish to put together a proof which fits your understanding; I'll be happy to review it.

(CLV) Lv 23:12
On the day when you cause the sheaf to wave you will offer a flawless year-old he-lamb as an ascent offering to Yahweh,

(CLV) Lv 23:13
together with its approach present of two tenths of an ephah of flour mingled with oil, a fire offering to Yahweh, a fragrant odor, and its libation of wine, a fourth of a hin.

(CLV) Lv 23:14
Not bread or toasted grain or groats of the new crop shall you eat until this very day, until you bring- the approach present of your Elohim. It shall be an eonian statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

(CLV) Lv 23:15
You will count off for yourselves from the morrow of the sabbath, from the day you bring the sheaf of the wave offering: there shall be seven flawless sabbaths.

Let's count from day one.

1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat

7X7=49

(CLV) Lv 23:16
Until the morrow of the seventh sabbath you shall count off fifty days; then you will bring near an approach present of new grain to Yahweh.

The first day of the week (day 1, one day,)

7X7=49+1=50

 

[Filippus]

(CLV) Lv 23:6
And on the fifteenth day of this month is the festival of unleavened bread to Yahweh. Seven days shall you eat unleavened bread.

(CLV) Lv 23:7
On the first day you shall come to have a holy meeting, when you shall do not occupational work at all.

(CLV) Lv 23:8
And you will bring near a fire offering to Yahweh seven days. On the seventh day is a holy meeting, when you shall do not occupational work at all.

(CLV) Lv 23:9
Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying:

(CLV) Lv 23:10
Speak to the sons of Israel, and you will say to them, When you come into the land which I am giving to you and reap its harvest, you will bring a sheaf of the firstfruit of your harvest to the priest.

This is Bikkurim.

(CLV) Lv 23:11
He will wave the sheaf before Yahweh for acceptance on your behalf. From the morrow of the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

From the morrow of the Shabbat. This is the first day of the week, no? The day after Shabbat? How could YHWH be calling day 1 of Hag Matzot the Shabbat in this case?

Let's test by my understanding Let's call this day one in out count, the first day of the week.

If you wish to put together a proof which fits your understanding; I'll be happy to review it.

(CLV) Lv 23:12
On the day when you cause the sheaf to wave you will offer a flawless year-old he-lamb as an ascent offering to Yahweh,

(CLV) Lv 23:13
together with its approach present of two tenths of an ephah of flour mingled with oil, a fire offering to Yahweh, a fragrant odor, and its libation of wine, a fourth of a hin.

(CLV) Lv 23:14
Not bread or toasted grain or groats of the new crop shall you eat until this very day, until you bring- the approach present of your Elohim. It shall be an eonian statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

(CLV) Lv 23:15
You will count off for yourselves from the morrow of the sabbath, from the day you bring the sheaf of the wave offering: there shall be seven flawless sabbaths.

Let's count from day one.

1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Shabbat

7X7=49

(CLV) Lv 23:16
Until the morrow of the seventh sabbath you shall count off fifty days; then you will bring near an approach present of new grain to Yahweh.

The first day of the week (day 1, one day,)

7X7=49+1=50

HARK!

I have read your feed and agree, do you even see my point or are you trying to correct something?

 

[Filippus]

Ex 19 :1 In the third month after the children of Israel had left the land of Egypt, the very same day, they came into the Wilderness of Sinai. (the 15th of the 1st month)

In other word the 15th of the third month.

 

[Filippus]

I disagree that your arguments are objective, for example, you just skipped right over what I said in what you just quoted.

Ezekiel 40:1 KJV
1 In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the LORD was upon me, and brought me thither.

Ezekiel 40:1 TS2009 (W/Footnotes)
1 In the twenty-fifth year of our exile, at Rosha haShanah,b on the tenth of the new moon, in the fourteenth year after the city was stricken, on that same day the hand of יהוה came upon me and He brought me there. Footnotes: aHead. bOf the year.

Is this Abib/Nisan 10? or is it Ethanim/Tishri 10? Modern Judaism would obviously say that Rosh haShanah is Tishri 1, Yom Teruah, and therefore it is the 10th of the seventh month, Yom haKippurim.

And yet you just skip over such things and ignore them as though they are insignificant. However if this is indeed the 10th of the seventh month then the Prophet is calling Ethanim/Tishri the head of the year.

Would it not be that he says this because of the creation of the world? And again, this puts your reasoning for starting your calendar on the fourth day of the week in doubt: for you say it starts with the fourth day of the week because of the fourth day of creation, but it may indeed be that the creation should be understood to have occurred in Autumn.

I'm not saying either way, but what I am saying is that your hypothesis really doesn't have much merit: and if you want to argue that the passage above is speaking of Abib/Nisan then you surely have an uphill battle.

Ex 12:1 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, “This (Abib/Nisan) month shall be the beginning of months to you; it is to be the first month of the year to you.

The annual count is still reconned on the Genisis Civil year, but the feasts are celebrated on the Exodus sacred calendar.

So yes the creation should be understood to have occurred in Autumn.

 

[HARK!]

HARK!

I have read your feed and agree, do you even see my point or are you trying to correct something?

The Sabbath is the seventh day of a seven day week. The number of days in a year is not equally divisible by seven; but the 7th day Shabbat is always on the seventh day of the week. However, Hag Matzot always begins on the 15th day of the month. How do you reconcile Bikkurim falling on the same day of the month every year; if the weekly cycle is independent of , and out of sync (in whole numbers) with, the yearly and monthly cycles?

 

[Humble Penny]

Ex 12:1 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, “This (Abib/Nisan) month shall be the beginning of months to you; it is to be the first month of the year to you.

The annual count is still reconned on the Genisis Civil year, but the feasts are celebrated on the Exodus sacred calendar.

So yes the creation should be understood to have occurred in Autumn.

View attachment 311411

Have you considered that none of these names were used before Moses freed the children of Israel from Egypt? And concerning the season the year begins I cover that in post #195.

 

[HARK!]

Have you considered that none of these names were used before Moses the children of Israel from Egypt?

(CLV) Ex 23:13
You shall beware in all that I say to you. And the name of other elohim you shall not mention; let it not be heard coming out of your mouth.