Did Yahshua Rise on the 7th Day Shabbat...

[HARK!]

Did Yahshua Rise on the 7th Day Shabbat...

...or could it have been another day of rest?

(CLV) Mk 16:9
Now, rising in the morning in the first (πρωτη) sabbath (σαββατου), He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

This thread serves as a study. Please support your assertions or rebuttals with verifiable references.

 

[HARK!]

@Yeshua HaDerekh @daq @Filippus @Torah Keeper @visionary @Humble Penny

 

[daq]

Did Yahshua Rise on the 7th Day Shabbat...

...or could it have been another day of rest?

(CLV) Mk 16:9
Now, rising in the morning in the first (πρωτη) sabbath (σαββατου), He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

Shalom Hark! Thank you for the invite.

Why Mark 16:9 since it is a somewhat disputed passage, (among scholars)? Not that I reject it but the wording here is different from the other Synoptics regarding what you appear to be highlighting in the text. For example the typical is one form or another of mia ton sabbaton, (Matthew 28:1, μιαν σαββατων, Mark 16:2, μια των σαββατων, and Luke 24:1, μια των σαββατων). There is some debate over these also: some say this phrase speaks of the first day of the week, (as usually translated), and others say it speaks of the weeks of Shabuot, (των σαββατων is plural).

PS: Also the same in John 20:1, (μια των σαββατων), and 20:19, (μια σαββατων). Either way, just thought I would throw those into the mix for starters.

 

[HARK!]

Shalom Hark! Thank you for the invite.

Shalom daq,

Thank you for joining us. For everyone whom I've invited so far, I believe that we are all objective and diligent in our studies. Here we should be able to put our minds together to seriously discuss this subject without having a lot of interruptions about Sunday sabbath, not under the law, and the like.

I hope that I haven't missed anyone who is diligently and objectively studying this subject out.

 

[HARK!]

Here is some information that I pulled from a thread that I created in 2020:

Bikkurim at the center of Hag Matzot

Let's look at Pesach and Hag Matzot first.

(CLV) Lv 23:5
In the first month ion the fourteenth day of the month between the evening hours is the passover to Yahweh.

Yahshua died on the torture stake on Pesach

(CLV) Lv 23:6
And on the fifteenth day of this month is the festival of unleavened bread to Yahweh. Seven days shall you eat unleavened bread.

The fifteenth day is when Yahshua was in the grave. for the first night.

(CLV) Lv 23:8
And you will bring near a fire offering to Yahweh seven days. On the seventh day is a holy meeting, when you shall do not occupational work at all.


(CLV) Ex 12:18
In the first month on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening, you shall eat unleavened bread until day twenty one of the month, in the evening.

Mag Matzot begins at sundown on the transition from the 14th to the 15th.

14 day (Yahshua in the grave) 15 night/day 16 night/day 17 night/day 18, 19, 20, 21 = 7 days


(CLV) Lv 23:7
On the first day you shall come to ›have a holy meeting, when you shall do no occupational work at all.


The first day, the 15th of Hag Matzot is a Shabbat.

14 day (Yahshua in the grave) 15 (Shabbat) night/day 16 night/day 17 night/day 18, 19, 20, 21 = 7 days

(CLV) Lv 23:10
Speak to the sons of Israel, and you will say to them, When you come into the land which I am giving to you and reap its harvest, you will bring a sheaf of the firstfruit of your harvest to the priest.

Bikkurim

(CLV) Lv 23:11
He will wave »the sheaf before Yahweh for acceptance on your behalf. From the morrow of the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

Bikkurim begins on the evening after the first Shabbat after the 15th


(CLV) Jn 20:1
Now, on one of the sabbaths, Miriam Magdalene is coming to the tomb in the morning, there being still darkness, and is observing the stone taken away from the door of the tomb.

Yahshua rose during the night, on the first Shabbat after the 15th.

14 day (Yahshua in the grave) 15 (Shabbat) night/day 16 night/day 17 (Shabbat) night/Yahshua rose/day 18, (Bikkurim) 19, 20, 21 (Shabbat)= 7 days

15 (Shabbat) night/day 16 night/day 17 (Shabbat) night/Yahshua rose/day
18, (Bikkurim)
19, 20, 21 (Shabbat)

​

It would put Yahshua in the grave before sundown on Wednesday.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Shalom Hark! Thank you for the invite.

Why Mark 16:9 since it is a somewhat disputed passage, (among scholars)? Not that I reject it but the wording here is different from the other Synoptics regarding what you appear to be highlighting in the text. For example the typical is one form or another of mia ton sabbaton, (Matthew 28:1, μιαν σαββατων, Mark 16:2, μια των σαββατων, and Luke 24:1, μια των σαββατων). There is some debate over these also: some say this phrase speaks of the first day of the week, (as usually translated), and others say it speaks of the weeks of Shabuot, (των σαββατων is plural).

PS: Also the same in John 20:1, (μια των σαββατων), and 20:19, (μια σαββατων). Either way, just thought I would throw those into the mix for starters.

in Greek, within the context of the passage, this means the 1st after the Sabbath...our Sunday. It has been that for as long as we have had the text...almost 2000 yrs. It would also be the day the omer was counted until Shavuot...

 

[daq]

in Greek, within the context of the passage, this means the 1st after the Sabbath...our Sunday. It has been that for as long as we have had the text...almost 2000 yrs. It would also be the day the omer was counted until Shavuot...

Isn't it true that protos is ordinal while mia, (heis), is cardinal?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Isn't it true that protos is ordinal while mia, (heis), is cardinal?

it is numerical 1...are you implying within that context it is 1 of the Sabbaths instead of the 1st after the Sabbath...ie Sunday? That phrase within that context has been translated by Greek/Koine speakers as being Sunday. No one within the Greek speakers or church have ever translated it as the 1st of the sabbaths as far as I know... @prodromos

 

[Ceallaigh]

It seems according to John 20 the resurrection took place on the first day of the week.

 

[HARK!]

It seems according to John 20 the resurrection took place on the first day of the week.

John 20 doesn't mention when he rose. It mentions when it was discovered that he rose.

 

[HARK!]

in Greek, within the context of the passage, this means the 1st after the Sabbath...our Sunday. It has been that for as long as we have had the text...almost 2000 yrs. It would also be the day the omer was counted until Shavuot...

What dialect were the autograph manuscripts of the Gospels written in? Has that dialect evolved since then? If it has; has that evolution been devoid of any doctrinal bias?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

It seems according to John 20 the resurrection took place on the first day of the week.

Yes, the way we look at it is that Yeshua was the 2nd Adam...Adam was created on the 6th day (Friday) and Yeshua was killed on the 6th day. God rested on the Sabbath as Yeshua did in the tomb. Sunday is the 1st day of Creation and was the day Yeshua rose...the 8th day!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

What dialect were the autograph manuscripts of the Gospels written in? Has that dialect evolved since then? If it has; has that evolution been devoid of any doctrinal bias?

Why does that matter...all the Greek church fathers for close to 2000 years say so and you know more then they do? I am impressed...

 

[HARK!]

Why does that matter...all the Greek church fathers for close to 2000 years say so and you know more then they do? I am impressed...

I didn't proclaim to know more than they do. Can you prove that they all said that? I'm not asking your to. Just show me where the first three said that, who they were, and when they said it. That will be at good start toward getting at the truth here. You do like the truth; don't you?

 

[HARK!]

was
Yes, the way we look at it is that yeshua was the 2nd Adam...Adam was created on the 6th day (Friday) and Yeshua was killed on the 6th day. God rested on the Sabbath as Yeshua did in the tomb. Sunday is the 1st day of Creation and was the day Yeshua rose...the 8th day!

Yahshua said that he would be in the grave for three days and three nights. I'm not questioning your superior math skills; but can you please show me your work for arriving at that answer?

Please be patient with me. You might have to walk me through it. It's been about 40 years since I've worked with imaginary numbers.

 

[daq]

it is numerical 1...are you implying within that context it is 1 of the Sabbaths instead of the 1st after the Sabbath...ie Sunday? That phrase within that context has been translated by Greek/Koine speakers as being Sunday. No one within the Greek speakers or church have ever translated it as the 1st of the sabbaths as far as I know... @prodromos

I'm not even sure we are now speaking about the same passage. Sabbath in the Mark passage from the OP is genitive singular, (sabbatou), and why would I think "1st", (cardinal), when protos is ordinal? The reason I brought up the other passages is because those are the phrases rendered as cardinal, but they write out "first (day) of the week". Those are the passages that scholarship says was the old way of counting the days of the week by cardinal numbers instead of naming the days of the week.

For example, אחד בשבת, "one in Shabbat".
Matthew 28:1 Commentaries: Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yahshua said that he would be in the grave for three days and three nights. I'm not questioning your superior math skills; but can you please show me your work for arriving at that answer?

Please be patient with me. You might have to walk me through it. It's been about 40 years since I've worked with imaginary numbers.

We have been through this. He also said on the 3rd day. Friday...1...Sabbath...2...Sunday 3. very simple. it was an idiom...3 days and 3 nights...besides that, the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus said it was that day the 3rd day since the events ocurred. Don't invite me to your threads if you are going to be rude...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I'm not even sure we are now speaking about the same passage. Sabbath in the Mark passage from the OP is genitive singular, (sabbatou), and why would I think "1st", (cardinal), when protos is ordinal? The reason I brought up the other passages is because those are the phrases rendered as cardinal, but they write out "first (day) of the week". Those are the passages that scholarship says was the old way of counting the days of the week by cardinal numbers instead of naming the days of the week.

For example, אחד בשבת, "one in Shabbat".
Matthew 28:1 Commentaries: Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Ma y Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

1st of the week or day 1 was still Sunday...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I didn't proclaim to know more than they do. Can you prove that they all said that? I'm not asking your to. Just show me where the first three said that, who they were, and when they said it. That will be at good start toward getting at the truth here. You do like the truth; don't you?

Many Fathers were at Nicea and they all agreed regarding it...go read about it! Unanimously, the bishops gathered at the Council decided to keep the feast on a Sunday. They wanted to retain the symbolism of the Resurrection falling on the day which is both the first day of the week and the eighth day.

 

[HARK!]

We have been through this. He also said on the 3rd day. Friday...1...Sabbath...2...Sunday 3. very simple. it was an idiom...3 days and 3 nights...besides that, the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus said it was that day the 3rd day since the events occured.

I could explain away all the words of scripture by declaring them to be idioms.

Here is what I have:

τριτην ταυτην ημεραν αγει αφ ου ταυτα εγενετο
third this DAY it-IS-LEADING FROM WHICH these BECAME

Let's count this out.

Let's start with today.

Today is Wednesday
One day from now will be Thursday.
Two days from now will be Friday.
Three Days from now will be σαββατου.