Did Yahshua and his Disciples Abstain from Meat?

[HARK!]

" Fasting implying abstinence was ordained by law for the Day of Atonement (Leviticus 16:29 sq.)

What is implied, and what you infer, are not necessarily the same.

Over the years I collected lots of information on this subject. I'm Torah observant; so this is a very important subject to me.

This comes from my folder on the scripture associated with this Moed:

This is all of the scripture, that I'm aware of, which outlines Yom Kippurim.


(CLV) Lv 23:26
Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying:

(CLV) Lv 23:27
Then on the tenth of this seventh month, it is the day of propitiatory shelters. It shall be a holy meeting for you, and you will humble (וְעִנִּיתֶם) your souls and bring near a fire offering to Yahweh.

(CLV) Lv 23:28
You shall do not work at all ion this very day, for it is the day of propitiatory shelters so as to make a propitiatory shelter over you before Yahweh your Elohim.

(CLV) Lv 23:29
For every soul who is not humbled (תְעֻנֶּה) on this very day will be cut off from his kinsmen.

(CLV) Lv 23:30
And every soul who does any work on this very day, I will destroy that soul from among his people.

(CLV) Lv 23:31
You shall do not work at all. It is an eonian statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

(CLV) Lv 23:32
It is a sabbath of cessation for you, and you will humble (וְעִנִּיתֶם) your souls. On the ninth day ›of the month in the evening, from evening until evening shall you cease for your sabbath.

==============================================================

(CLV) Num 29:7
On the tenth of this seventh month you shall come to have a holy meeting, and you will humble (וְעִנִּיתֶם) your souls; you shall do not work at all.

(CLV) Num 29:8
You will bring near an ascent offering to Yahweh, a fragrant odor, one bull calf of the herd, one ram, seven year-old he-lambs (flawless shall they bbe for you),

(CLV) Num 29:9
and as their approach present of flour mingled| with oil, three tenths for the young bull, two tenths for the one ram,

(CLV) Num 29:10
a tenth, a tenth for each he-lamb of the seven lambs,

(CLV) Num 29:11
and one hairy goat as a sin offering aside from the sin offering of the propitiatory shelters and the regular ascent offering with its approach present and their libations.

================================================================

(CLV) Lv 16:1
Yahweh spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron when they came near before Yahweh and died.

(CLV) Lv 16:2
Yahweh said to Moses: Speak to Aaron your brother that he must not come at just any time into the holy place, inside the curtain before the propitiatory shelter which is on the coffer, so that he may not die, for in the cloud shall I appear over the propitiatory shelter. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:3
In this way shall Aaron come into the holy place: with a bull calf of the herd, as a sin offering, and a ram as an ascent offering. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:4
The holy linen tunic shall he put on, and linen breeches, they shall be over his flesh, and with a linen sash shall he gird himself, and with a linen turban shall he be turbaned; they are holy garments. He will bathe his flesh in water and put them on. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:5
From the congregation of the sons of Israel shall he take two hairy goats as a sin offering and one ram as an ascent offering.

(CLV) Lv 16:6
Aaron will bring near the young bull of the sin offering which is for himself, and he will make a propitiatory shelter about himself and about his house. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:7
He will take the two hairy goats and stand them before Yahweh at the opening of the tent of appointment. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:8
Then Aaron will cast lots over the two hairy goats, one lot for Yahweh and one lot for the goat of departure. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:9
Aaron will bring near »the hairy goat over which the lot for Yahweh comes up and make it a sin offering. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:10
Yet the hairy goat over which the lot for the goat of departure comes up, it shall stay alive before Yahweh to make a propitiatory shelter over it and to send it away as the goat of departure to the wilderness. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:11
Aaron will bring near the young bull of the sin offering which is for him, and he will make a propitiatory shelter about himself and about his house. He will slay the young bull of the sin offering which is for himself. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:12
Then he will take a full firepan of embers of fire off the altar from before Yahweh and both his hands full of thin incense spices, and he will bring it inside the curtain; (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:13
he will put the incense on the fire before Yahweh, and the cloud of incense will cover the propitiatory shelter which is on the testimony, so that he may not die. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:14 He will take some of the blood of the young bull and spatter it with his finger on the face of the propitiatory shelter eastward, and before the propitiatory shelter shall he spatter some of the blood seven times with his finger. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:15
He will slay the hairy goat of the sin offering which is for the people, and bring its blood inside the curtain and do with its blood just as he did with the blood of the young bull, and spatter it on the propitiatory shelter and before the propitiatory shelter. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:16
Thus he will make a propitiatory shelter over the holy place because of the uncleannesses of the sons of Israel and because of their transgressions, for all their sins. So shall he do for the tent of appointment that is tabernacling with them in the midst of their uncleannesses. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:17
Not human at all shall come to be in the tent of appointment when he enters to make a propitiatory shelter in the holy place until his coming forth. He will make a propitiatory shelter about himself and about his household and about the whole assembly of Israel.

(CLV) Lv 16:18
Then he will come forth to the altar which is before Yahweh and make a propitiatory shelter over it. He will take some of the blood of the young bull and some of the blood of the hairy goat, and he will put it on the horns of the altar round about. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:19
He will spatter some of the blood on it with his finger seven times and cleanse it and hallow it from the uncleannesses of the sons of Israel. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:20
When he has finished making a propitiatory shelter- for the holy place and the tent of appointment and the altar, he will bring near the live hairy goat. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:21
Aaron will support his two hands on the head of the live hairy goat, confess over it all the depravities of the sons of Israel and all their transgressions in all their sins, and he will put them on the head of the hairy goat and send it away by the hand of a ready man to the wilderness. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:22
Thus the hairy goat will bear on it all their depravities to an inaccessible land, and he will send the hairy goat free into the wilderness.

(CLV) Lv 16:23
Then Aaron will enter the tent of appointment and strip off the linen garments which he put on when he came- into the holy place, and he will leave them there. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:24
He will bathe his flesh in water in a holy place, put on his garments, go forth, and he will make his ascent offering and the ascent offering of the people and thus make a propitiatory shelter about himself and about the people. (Yahshua's job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:25
The fat of the sin offering shall he cause to fume on the altar.

(CLV) Lv 16:26
The one sending the hairy goat free as the goat of departure, he shall rinse his garments, and he will bathe his flesh in water, and afterward he may come into the camp.

(CLV) Lv 16:27
As for the young bull of the sin offering and the hairy goat of the sin offering, whose blood was brought to make a propitiatory shelter in the holy place, one shall bring them forth outside the camp, and they will burn in fire their hides and their flesh and their dung.

(CLV) Lv 16:28
The one burning them shall rinse his garments, and he will bathe his flesh in water, and afterward he may come into the camp.

(CLV) Lv 16:29
It will come to be for you as an eonian statute: In the seventh month on the tenth of the month you shall humble (תְּעַנּוּ) your souls, and not work at all shall you do, the native or the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

(CLV) Lv 16:30
For ion this day shall one make a propitiatory shelter over you to cleanse you from all your sins. Before Yahweh shall you be clean.

(CLV) Lv 16:31
It is a sabbath of cessation for you, and you will humble (וְעִנִּיתֶם) your souls; it is an eonian statute.

(CLV) Lv 16:32
The priest whom one is anointing and whom one is consecrating to serve as priest- instead of his father, will make a propitiatory shelter. He will put on the linen garments, the holy garments, (Yahshua?)

(CLV) Lv 16:33
and he will make a propitiatory shelter over the holy sanctuary. Over the tent of appointment and the altar shall he make a propitiatory shelter; over the priests and over all the people of the assembly shall he make a propitiatory shelter. (Yahshua's Job?)

(CLV) Lv 16:34
This will come to be for you as an eonian statute to make a propitiatory shelter over the sons of Israel because of all their sins, once a year. And he did just as Yahweh had instructed Moses.

In every case, the word humble seems to fit this definition:

6700 II.עָנָה (ʿā∙nā(h)): v.; ≡ Str 6031; TWOT 1651, 1652—1. LN 25.223–25.250 (qal) be afflicted, disturbed, oppressed, i.e., be in a state of feeling anxiety and distress (Ps 116:10; 119:67; Isa 31:4; Zec 10:2+), note: for a focus on the state of trouble itself, and not just the feeling, see also domain LN 22.1–22.14; (nif) afflicted, suffering, oppressed (Ps 119:107; Isa 53:7; 58:10+); (piel) afflict, oppress, mistreat (Ge 15:13); (pual) be afflicted, have hardships (Ps 119:71; 132:1; Isa 53:4+); (hif) afflict, oppress (1Ki 8:35; 2Ch 6:26; Ps 55:20[EB 19]+); (hitp) suffer affliction (1Ki 2:26; Ps 107:17+); 2. LN 88.51–88.58 (nif) humble oneself, i.e., pertaining to a state of unpretentious attitudes or behavior, often implying that the humble one has a proper awareness of one’s proper (lower) status before God or in society (Ex 10:3+); (pual) deny oneself (Lev 23:29+); (hitp) humble oneself, submit (Ge 16:9; Ezr 8:21; Da 10:12+); 3. LN 88.271–88.282 (piel) rape, formally, humble, violate sexually a female, often by force or coercion, implying a dishonoring of the female and her families and clans (Ge 34:2; Dt 21:14; 22:24, 29; Jdg 19:24; 20:5; 2Sa 13:12, 14, 22, 32; La 5:11; Eze 22:10, 11+); 4. LN 68.34–68.57 (hif) silence, cease, stop, i.e., cause a state to cease to exist or be ineffective, as an extension of conquering or subduing an opponent (Isa 25:5+), note: Ru 1:21; 2Sa 22:36 some sources parse as 6699 qal 1

 

[HARK!]

People will either accept what is written or they won't:

New King James Version
Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

New King James Version
Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover.

 

[HARK!]

I already gave scripture that it was a passover meal.

New King James Version
Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

New King James Version
Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover.

 

[HARK!]

Again who made the video?

Go watch it and find out. I really don't care who made it. Like I said before; I picked this one because it was short; and it covered a lot of information that I wanted to get out on the table. If you are really interested in this subject; and for some reason you have a problem with this particular producer; go watch another video on this subject. There are much better ones to be found. Most of the really good ones are much longer.

 

[HARK!]

Yes, but it begs the question. Was the Last Supper a Passover meal?

We often think, almost unconsciously, that it was one. That's because the evidence is there that the Apostles had been told to prepare such a meal. However, the undeniable 'new twist' that Christ put on that particular meal he had with his followers ("This is my body" etc.) suggests that it was not.

(CLV) 1Co 11:23
For I accepted from the Lord, what I give over also to you, that the Lord Yahshua, in the night in which He was given up, took bread (αρτον),

(CLV) 1Co 11:24
and giving thanks, breaks it and said, "This is My body, broken for your sakes. This do for a recollection of Me."

Artos; Strong’s G740 (common definition)- http://studybible.info/strongs/G740

Food composed of flour (leaven) mixed with water, allowed to rise, and baked. The Israelites made it in the form of an oblong or round cake, as thick as one's thumb, and as large as a plate or platter; hence it was not to be cut but broken.


If it was Passover he, by Torah, would have been eating ἄζυμος

G106 ἄζυμος - Strong's Greek Lexicon

 

[HARK!]

The texts I quoted showed they had lamb. If they did not eat the lamb then they were disobeying God's word.

If Yahshua ate artos on Pesach; he broke the law. He didn't. He was in the tomb on the first day of unleavened bread.


(CLV) 1Co 11:23
For I accepted from the Lord, what I give over also to you, that the Lord Yahshua, in the night in which He was given up, took bread (αρτον),

(CLV) 1Co 11:24
and giving thanks, breaks it and said, "This is My body, broken for your sakes. This do for a recollection of Me."

Artos; Strong’s G740 (common definition)- http://studybible.info/strongs/G740

Food composed of flour (leaven) mixed with water, allowed to rise, and baked. The Israelites made it in the form of an oblong or round cake, as thick as one's thumb, and as large as a plate or platter; hence it was not to be cut but broken.

If it was Passover; he, by Torah, would have been eating ἄζυμος

G106 ἄζυμος - Strong's Greek Lexicon

 

[Dkh587]

Tread lightly on this topic, because the teaching that eating clean animals is a sin, and is very sneaky.

the Messiah & Apostles ate meat. We have recordings of the Messiah eating fish and giving people fish to eat.

 

[HARK!]

Tread lightly on this topic, because the teaching that eating clean animals is a sin, and is very sneaky.

the Messiah & Apostles ate meat. We have recordings of the Messiah eating fish and giving people fish to eat.

I am treading lightly. I started this thread because i don't have all of the answers to questions that have been puzzling me. I've received some useful information in this thread; but since it got derailed, by refutations to what I DO have answers on; I did some more research, to jog my memory as to where to find the scripture for what I do know. Well, in the process I found some web pages that leave me with even more questions. That's the way it is with me. I get starved in a drought of what to research next, then comes a little trickle, then comes the tsunami.

Shalom

 

[HARK!]

it was not. It was a seudah hamafsekhet

I won't confirm nor deny that; but I'll add that possibility to my notes.

I've gathered some evidence that it was a Chagigah; but I haven't fully studied that one out.

 

[ewq1938]

He was in the tomb on the first day of unleavened bread.

They did not eat the Passover in the tomb. They were in a house in an upper room.

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
Luk 22:9 And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
Luk 22:10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
Luk 22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
Luk 22:12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
Luk 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.


Mat_26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

 

[HARK!]

They did not eat the Passover in the tomb. They were in a house in an upper room.

New King James Version
Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

New King James Version
Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover.

 

[HARK!]

Jesus Descended From Judah Not Levi (Hebrews 7:13-14)

I've been looking at this carefully to come up with a rebuttal. I can't find one. I have gone to many churches, in various States, where this claim was made. I've seen it purported on the web; but the only references sited by these sources are books that I haven't read. I won't repeat that claim again; unless I can back it up with a reliable source. Thanks for plucking another suspected myth from my understanding of Yahshua.

Here is the source that ended my search:

Was Mary a Levite, making Jesus both King and Priest? » Reasons for Hope* Jesus

 

[Dkh587]

I am treading lightly. I started this thread because i don't have all of the answers to questions that have been puzzling me. I've received some useful information in this thread; but since it got derailed, by refutations to what I DO have answers on; I did some more research, to jog my memory as to where to find the scripture for what I do know. Well, in the process I found some web pages that leave me with even more questions. That's the way it is with me. I get starved in a drought of what to research next, then comes a little trickle, then comes the tsunami.

Shalom

What are some of the questions that puzzle you?

 

[ewq1938]

New King James Version
Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

New King James Version
Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover.

Barnes:

All the circumstances, also, lead us to suppose that he observed it at the usual time and manner, Mat_26:17, Mat_26:19. The only passage which has led to a contrary opinion is this in John; but here the word passover does not, of necessity, mean the paschal lamb. It probably refers to the Feast which followed the sacrifice of the lamb, and which continued seven days. Compare Num_28:16-17. The whole feast was called the Passover, and they were unwilling to defile themselves, even though the paschal lamb had been killed, because it would disqualify them for participating in the remainder of the ceremonies (Lightfoot).

 

[Dkh587]

Jesus, as explained in Luke and Mark, was a Benjamite through both Joseph and Mary, not a Levite. John the Baptist was a Levite because his father was a Levite. John the baptist was not Jesus' brother, he was his cousin.

Why on earth would you claim that Jesus was a Levite when Paul in Hebrews explains the significance of his not being a Levite. That's what prevented him from being a priest while on earth. The law would have forbidden it.

The Messiah is from the line of David, which consequently makes him of tribe of Yahudah(Judah). Where are you getting that he is from the tribe of Benjamin?

Hebrews 7:14

For it is evident that our Master sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

 

[Dkh587]

The broiled fish: Yes, I'm aware of that verse; but if you look at the accounts of the four Gospels and who saw Yahshua, where and when, this account seems out of place. I'm not saying that it's a forgery; but it doesn't seem to match the other accounts. Do fish count as reptiles?

The wine: I thought about that too. Does new wine, or grape juice, technically count as wine? Now it was Passover, long after grape season; so I don't know how this could have been new wine. This doesn't seem to fit with Eusebius' accounts.

Good points. These are the type of issues that prompted me to get others involved.

What is the problem with the Messiah eating fish? If we base it on the Torah and Prophets, there’s no issue. Eating meat is permitted by God.

the arguments against eating meat are usually based on appealing to emotion.

even God himself ate meat:

Genesis 18:6-8

And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.

And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.

And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

the doctrine of forbidding people to eat clean animals is a doctrine of demons:

1 Timothy 4:1-14

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

 

[HARK!]

Barnes:

All the circumstances, also, lead us to suppose that he observed it at the usual time and manner, Mat_26:17, Mat_26:19. The only passage which has led to a contrary opinion is this in John; but here the word passover does not, of necessity, mean the paschal lamb. It probably refers to the Feast which followed the sacrifice of the lamb, and which continued seven days. Compare Num_28:16-17. The whole feast was called the Passover, and they were unwilling to defile themselves, even though the paschal lamb had been killed, because it would disqualify them for participating in the remainder of the ceremonies (Lightfoot).

Exodus 12

5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. (sundown, 15th of Abib) 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or boiled in water, but roast it over a fire—with the head, legs and internal organs. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning

14 “This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the Lord—a lasting ordinance. 15 For seven days you are to eat bread made without yeast. (The Passover Lamb is eaten on the first day of unleavened bread 15th of Abib)

17 “Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread, because it was on this very day that I brought your divisions out of Egypt. Celebrate this day as a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. 18 In the first month you are to eat bread made without yeast, from the evening of the fourteenth day until the evening of the twenty-first day. 19 For seven days no yeast is to be found in your houses. And anyone, whether foreigner or native-born, who eats anything with yeast in it must be cut off from the community of Israel. 20 Eat nothing made with yeast. Wherever you live, you must eat unleavened bread.”

 

[HARK!]

What are some of the questions that puzzle you?

They're piling up by the minute. This has been going on for over a month; and as of starting this thread, it's expanding exponentially.

I'll send you a PM.

 

[ewq1938]

(The Passover Lamb is eaten on the first day of unleavened bread 15th of Abib)

This is correct.

Mar_14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Mat_26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

Luk_22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

 

[HARK!]

1 Timothy 4:1-14
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Good one!