Did Yahshua and his Disciples Abstain from Meat?

[Al Touthentop]

You say Jesus kept the law perfectly... but there are commandments that are only for women... so he couldn’t “keep” those in the way you are thinking of “keeping” commandments.

He couldn't keep them at all. He wasn't a woman so those commandments did not apply to him.

also, the Messiah was not a Levite, nor was he a priest according to the order of Levi, so he couldn’t keep commandments given specifically to Levitical priests...

And this is relevant why? He kept the law perfectly.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Paul took a vow to prove that he lived in obedience to the law of God(aka the law of Moses)

The Nazarite oath was not in obedience to the law of Moses. It was optional.

 

[Dkh587]

The Nazarite oath was not in obedience to the law of Moses. It was optional.

He took the vow so people would know that he kept the law of Moses/God

Acts 21:24

Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

you said the Law of God/Moses was not kept after Christ, and we have Paul on record proving that he indeed kept the law of Moses/God after Christ. You were wrong.

 

[ewq1938]

He took the vow so people would know that he kept the law of Moses/God

Acts 21:24

He was forced to do that by a mob of angry Jews. They couldn't even wait until it was finished and drug Paul out to kill him.


Act 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;


DO WHAT WE TELL YOU TO DO!


Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

The leaders of this multitude of people tell Paul what they want him to do...and if you want to live, you do what a multitude of people tell you to do...this is a mob.

The Nazarite vow was not completed because Paul definitely didn't sacrifice any animals:

Num 6:9 And if any man die very suddenly by him, and he hath defiled the head of his consecration; then he shall shave his head in the day of his cleansing, on the seventh day shall he shave it.
Num 6:10 And on the eighth day he shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons, to the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
Num 6:11 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, and make an atonement for him, for that he sinned by the dead, and shall hallow his head that same day.
Num 6:12 And he shall consecrate unto the LORD the days of his separation, and shall bring a lamb of the first year for a trespass offering: but the days that were before shall be lost, because his separation was defiled.
Num 6:13 And this is the law of the Nazarite, when the days of his separation are fulfilled: he shall be brought unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
Num 6:14 And he shall offer his offering unto the LORD, one he lamb of the first year without blemish for a burnt offering, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish for a sin offering, and one ram without blemish for peace offerings,
Num 6:15 And a basket of unleavened bread, cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, and wafers of unleavened bread anointed with oil, and their meat offering, and their drink offerings.
Num 6:16 And the priest shall bring them before the LORD, and shall offer his sin offering, and his burnt offering:
Num 6:17 And he shall offer the ram for a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, with the basket of unleavened bread: the priest shall offer also his meat offering, and his drink offering.
Num 6:18 And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put it in the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings.

As you can see, animals have no part of this until the 8th day.



Act 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,
Act 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
Act 21:29 (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)
Act 21:30 And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut.

Yet still during the 7th day Paul was taken out of the Temple and did not return. Is the timing of this co-incidence? hmmmm....also note this mob of people are now violent to Paul proving they were to be feared all along!


Act 21:31 And as they went about to kill him, tidings came unto the chief captain of the band, that all Jerusalem was in an uproar.
Act 21:32 Who immediately took soldiers and centurions, and ran down unto them: and when they saw the chief captain and the soldiers, they left beating of Paul.

So they were beating Paul with the intention of killing him but the Roman's stopped this.

 

[Dkh587]

He was forced to do that by a mob of angry Jews. They couldn't even wait until it was finished and drug Paul out to kill him.


Act 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;


DO WHAT WE TELL YOU TO DO!


Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

The leaders of this multitude of people tell Paul what they want him to do...and if you want to live, you do what a multitude of people tell you to do...this is a mob.

The Nazarite vow was not completed because Paul definitely didn't sacrifice any animals:

Num 6:9 And if any man die very suddenly by him, and he hath defiled the head of his consecration; then he shall shave his head in the day of his cleansing, on the seventh day shall he shave it.
Num 6:10 And on the eighth day he shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons, to the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
Num 6:11 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, and make an atonement for him, for that he sinned by the dead, and shall hallow his head that same day.
Num 6:12 And he shall consecrate unto the LORD the days of his separation, and shall bring a lamb of the first year for a trespass offering: but the days that were before shall be lost, because his separation was defiled.
Num 6:13 And this is the law of the Nazarite, when the days of his separation are fulfilled: he shall be brought unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:
Num 6:14 And he shall offer his offering unto the LORD, one he lamb of the first year without blemish for a burnt offering, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish for a sin offering, and one ram without blemish for peace offerings,
Num 6:15 And a basket of unleavened bread, cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, and wafers of unleavened bread anointed with oil, and their meat offering, and their drink offerings.
Num 6:16 And the priest shall bring them before the LORD, and shall offer his sin offering, and his burnt offering:
Num 6:17 And he shall offer the ram for a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, with the basket of unleavened bread: the priest shall offer also his meat offering, and his drink offering.
Num 6:18 And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put it in the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings.

As you can see, animals have no part of this until the 8th day.



Act 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,
Act 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
Act 21:29 (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)
Act 21:30 And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut.

Yet still during the 7th day Paul was taken out of the Temple and did not return. Is the timing of this co-incidence? hmmmm....also note this mob of people are now violent to Paul proving they were to be feared all along!


Act 21:31 And as they went about to kill him, tidings came unto the chief captain of the band, that all Jerusalem was in an uproar.
Act 21:32 Who immediately took soldiers and centurions, and ran down unto them: and when they saw the chief captain and the soldiers, they left beating of Paul.

So they were beating Paul with the intention of killing him but the Roman's stopped this.

It wasn’t a mob telling Paul to take the vow, it was THE BRETHREN.

You are clearly not even reading the text, because you don’t even know that it was James & the Brethren talking to him and telling him to take the vow so they(the mob) will know that he is not teaching disobedience to the law of God/Moses, and that he himself lives in obedience to the law of Moses/God

with all due respect, you need to pay more attention when you read.

 

[Al Touthentop]

But all the prophesies were not fulfilled regarding His second coming. Heaven and earth are not "ages...

True enough. Jesus is coming but he isn't staying to rule on earth. On the day he arrives to collect everyone, the earth is burned up.

He took the vow so people would know that he kept the law of Moses/God

Acts 21:24


you said the Law of God/Moses was not kept after Christ, and we have Paul on record proving that he indeed kept the law of Moses/God after Christ.

No, he taught against the keeping the law as we read in Galatians, Romans and Hebrews, because Christ established a new covenant. It was James who said those words, not Paul. And James tells what it was that Paul preached. But they wanted to appease the Jews there so they would listen to what Paul had to say. Paul kept the law while he was under it. But he didn't preach that we were to keep the law of Moses.

Now hear Pilate in his letter to Tiberius about Jesus:

"Among the various rumors that came to my ears there was one in particular that attracted my
attention. A young man, it was said, appeared in Galiee preaching with a noble unction a new
law in the name of God who had sent him. " (http://theancientbridge.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/his_letter.pdf)

John the baptist ushered in this new law but it wouldn't become the new covenant until Christ was resurrected, after having kept the law perfectly and having nailed it to the cross.

 

[ewq1938]

It wasn’t a mob telling Paul to take the vow, it was THE BRETHREN.

He was forced to take this vow and the people got so stirred up they still wanted to kill him and later when he addressed the people to explain how he became Christian, they continued to want him dead.

This is no example of Paul somehow continuing to practice Judaism like he did before he became Christian.

 

[Dkh587]

He was forced to take this vow and the people got so stirred up they still wanted to kill him and later when he addressed the people to explain how he became Christian, they continued to want him dead.

This is no example of Paul somehow continuing to practice Judaism like he did before he became Christian.

Nobody forced Paul to take a vow. You make Paul out to be a weak flip-flopper with this strange doctrine you’re teaching.

Stop making stuff up - we just read that James, the Christian Brethren & Elders told Paul to prove the mob wrong, that he keeps the law of God/Moses.

 

[Dkh587]

True enough. Jesus is coming but he isn't staying to rule on earth. On the day he arrives to collect everyone, the earth is burned up.


No, he taught against the keeping the law as we read in Galatians, Romans and Hebrews, because Christ established a new covenant. It was James who said those words, not Paul. And James tells what it was that Paul preached. But they wanted to appease the Jews there so they would listen to what Paul had to say. Paul kept the law while he was under it. But he didn't preach that we were to keep the law of Moses.

Now hear Pilate in his letter to Tiberius about Jesus:

"Among the various rumors that came to my ears there was one in particular that attracted my
attention. A young man, it was said, appeared in Galiee preaching with a noble unction a new
law in the name of God who had sent him. " (http://theancientbridge.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/his_letter.pdf)

John the baptist ushered in this new law but it wouldn't become the new covenant until Christ was resurrected, after having kept the law perfectly and having nailed it to the cross.

Paul proved the crowd wrong, showing them that he indeed kept the law of God, therefore, we are to follow Paul’s example, and keep the law of Moses, as he did. The Messiah and Paul kept the law of God, so if we reject the law of Moses, we are not following their example, because they walked in, and taught obedience to the law of God.

they did not teach disobedience to God’s law, otherwise, they are worthy of death. You say Messiah kept the law of God perfectly, which I agree with(that he kept what applied to him), and yet the same law you say he kept, also condemns false prophets who teach God’s children not to obey the law of Moses/God.

If Paul tells you to disobey God’s law, he is a false prophet.

Are you accusing Paul of being a false prophet?

 

[ewq1938]

Nobody forced Paul to take a vow. You make Paul out to be a weak flip-flopper with this strange doctrine you’re teaching.

No that applies to your exegesis with this version of Paul who cannot make up his mind as to what religion he practices. Paul taught against the law of Moses and in favor of the law of the New Covenant.

 

[ewq1938]

Paul proved the crowd wrong, showing them that he indeed kept the law of God

He was forced to do it and the crowd figured that out and drug him out to be killed. How exactly did he show them he kept the law of Moses? If he did they wouldn't have wanted to kill him. It was because he did not keep it and was forced to enter into this vow that was the reason they wanted him dead.

Let's face the truth. Saul was zealous for Judaism and very against Christ and Christians. He helped them get arrested and killed. He suddenly converted to Christianity and taught it and against his old ways and Jews considered him a traitor and wanted him dead. Being a Roman citizen was mainly what kept him alive.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Paul proved the crowd wrong, showing them that he indeed kept the law of God, therefore, we are to follow Paul’s example, and keep the law of Moses, as he did. The Messiah and Paul kept the law of God, so if we reject the law of Moses, we are not following their example, because they walked in, and taught obedience to the law of God.

You are being literally absurd. Especially when we can read Paul telling us that the new covenant has replaced the old.

If Paul tells you to disobey God’s law, he is a false prophet.

Are you accusing Paul of being a false prophet?

Paul never told anyone to disobey God's law. God's law is the law of Christ. It is impossible to disobey a law that is not in effect. It's also impossible to be justified by obeying it since it has no more authority.

I'm not calling Paul a false prophet. You don't accept Paul's words though. That's a shame.

 

[Dkh587]

He was forced to do it and the crowd figured that out and drug him out to be killed. How exactly did he show them he kept the law of Moses? If he did they wouldn't have wanted to kill him. It was because he did not keep it and was forced to enter into this vow that was the reason they wanted him dead.

Let's face the truth. Saul was zealous for Judaism and very against Christ and Christians. He helped them get arrested and killed. He suddenly converted to Christianity and taught it and against his old ways and Jews considered him a traitor and wanted him dead. Being a Roman citizen was mainly what kept him alive.

That’s not what Acts says - that’s just a bunch of eisegesis from you.

 

[tampasteve]

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