Did the Founding Fathers get anything Wrong?

[Hammster]

Maybe Christians should spend less time trying to use the government’s jackboot to get people to follow their deity’s will and more time bringing them to faith on their deity. That way people would follow their deity and those same people would go to paradise rather than eternal torture.

What I suggested really isn’t that important, it’s only one of the last things their messiah ordered them to do before he left the planet. And it’s only people’s eternal destination on the line. Not really important stuff at all.

Did you quote the person? I ask because you seem to be countering an argument that I’ve not made.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Did you quote the person? I ask because you seem to be countering an argument that I’ve not made.

Oh, you haven’t argued that we need laws that follow your deity’s will. Good. I was afraid you are one of those that want our nation’s laws that follow their deity’s will.

 

[Hammster]

Oh, you haven’t argued that we need laws that follow your deity’s will. Good. I was afraid you are one of those that want our nation’s laws that follow their deity’s will.

I do. But I’m not sure where the jackboot comment comes from.

 

[durangodawood]

I do. But I’m not sure where the jackboot comment comes from.

Thats the image people use sometimes as a symbol for government coercion.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

I do. But I’m not sure where the jackboot comment comes from.

For what purpose? Instead of worrying about the nation’s laws, why don’t you just bring people to faith in your deity? They would then follow the religious edicts you want them to follow and they would go to paradise. Win-win. And you are commanded to do it. Your deity doesn’t command you to make the laws of the nation follow their will. They command you to bring people to faith.

 

[Lukaris]

Lost my post… forget it.

 

[Hammster]

Thats the image people use sometimes as a symbol for government coercion.

I know. There will always be laws like that because not everyone agrees with every law.

 

[Hammster]

For what purpose? Instead of worrying about the nation’s laws, why don’t you just bring people to faith in your deity?

I can do both.

They would then follow the religious edicts you want them to follow and they would go to paradise. Win-win. And you are commanded to do it. Your deity doesn’t command you to make the laws of the nation follow their will. They command you to bring people to faith.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
— 1 Corinthians 10:31

That would include making laws.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

I can do both.

Work smarter, not harder. Faith in your deity gets people to live how you want them to. An earthly government isn’t needed to use their sword to get them to do what you want.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
— 1 Corinthians 10:31

That would include making laws.

I would recommend you go to your spiritual advisor and take a remedial course on your denominations history, especially how it came about. You’ll learn why having the government based on your religion ends up perverting your religion.

 

[Hammster]

Work smarter, not harder. Faith in your deity gets people to live how you want them to. An earthly government isn’t needed to use their sword to get them to do what you want.

I said I can do both.

I would recommend you go to your spiritual advisor and take a remedial course on your denominations history, especially how it came about. You’ll learn why having the government based on your religion ends up perverting your religion.

As long as I work on passing laws that glorify God, I’m good to go.

 

[durangodawood]

I know. There will always be laws like that because not everyone agrees with every law.

Yeah. Good thing jackboots are available to deter theft and murder.

But for people exercising their natural liberty re who or how to worship?

 

[jayem]

That “Lord” is Jesus Christ.

Of course. The same language is on my high school and college/grad school diplomas. For a long time, Jesus has been a calendar marker to separate BC (before Christ) from AD (anno domini--the year of the Lord. ) Which obviously refers to Jesus. His presumed dates are still in use. But the modern terminology is now BCE (before the Common Era) and CE (Common Era.) Which is religiously neutral.

 

[BCP1928]

I do. But I’m not sure where the jackboot comment comes from.

Because you will have to do it by force. Once you ally yourself with the government to enforce your moral code, you have essentially given up on evangelism. All you have left is force.

 

[Hammster]

Yeah. Good thing jackboots are available to deter theft and murder.

But for people exercising their natural liberty re who or how to worship?

I have no idea what your point is.

 

[Hammster]

Because you will have to do it by force. Once you ally yourself with the government to enforce your moral code, you have essentially given up on evangelism. All you have left is force.

Is there force being used now to uphold our laws?

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Is there force being used now to uphold our laws?

If you don’t want abortions to happen, just bring people to faith in Christ and they won’t have abortions, you don’t need a law to stop them. If you don’t want people to smoke marijuana, bring them to faith in Christ and they won’t smoke marijuana, no law needed. If you don’t want gay people to get married, bring them to faith in Christ and they will not get married, no law needed. Why is bringing people to faith in Christ not enough to get people to act the way you want them to?

 

[Brihaha]

If you don’t want abortions to happen, just bring people to faith in Christ and they won’t have abortions, you don’t need a law to stop them. If you don’t want people to smoke marijuana, bring them to faith in Christ and they won’t smoke marijuana, no law needed. If you don’t want gay people to get married, bring them to faith in Christ and they will not get married, no law needed. Why is bringing people to faith in Christ not enough to get people to act the way you want them to?

Let us not get carried away now. Some folks believe God created medicinal flora for the benefit of humanity. There's ten perfectly fine commandments to enforce before we go to extremes here haha.

 

[Hammster]

If you don’t want abortions to happen, just bring people to faith in Christ and they won’t have abortions, you don’t need a law to stop them. If you don’t want people to smoke marijuana, bring them to faith in Christ and they won’t smoke marijuana, no law needed. If you don’t want gay people to get married, bring them to faith in Christ and they will not get married, no law needed. Why is bringing people to faith in Christ not enough to get people to act the way you want them to?

We can do both.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

We can do both.

But why is the law against those needed then?

 

[Hammster]

But why is the law against those needed then?

Same reason there are laws that you agree with.