Did the early church worship on Sabbath?

[reddogs]

No one has gone against God. Anything they did was with the full authority of Jesus Christ.

Please, give us the text with Christs words, so we know its not from man.

 

[prodromos]

Please, give us the text with Christs words, so we know its not from man.

It's from Christ's body, the Church, who He gave authority.

 

[daq]

Further testimony that the early Church worshiped on Sunday:

From the Apology of St. Justin ( Martyr) about 150 AD

Chapter 67. Weekly worship of the Christians​

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christour Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

​

CHURCH FATHERS: The First Apology (St. Justin Martyr)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

www.newadvent.org

Going back to your previous quote from the Didache:

Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

When an author quotes from a scripture text he is essentially confirming the Prophet or author of the text he quotes from, unless he makes a stipulation, which we never see anywhere when scripture is quoted in the Apostolic writings, (the only exception I can think of off hand being where Paul quotes a Greek poet and makes that plain).

Therefore, seeing the quote from Malachi in the Didache, should we treat that author and his work any differently? Of course not because if he is stripping a quote from Malachi and does not agree with other things written by the Prophet then he is essentially a heretic. This is probably one of the reasons why Markion the heretic found it necessary to cut out all of the Tanach quotes in the writings of Paul: for surely he knew that those quotes were tantamount to an affirmation of the authors and the books from which those quotes came, (which Markion detested).

Because of this there are really only several ways to take what the author of the Didache has actually done: that is that either he has shown his support for the Torah and everything else in the book of Malachi, or he is a heretic and thief, pilfering from the book of Malachi while not upholding the Torah, or the person reading his work does not understand and is using it to put words into the mouth of the author of the Didache.

Malachi actually brings the Nations or Gentiles into the fold of Yisrael by what he says in the first chapter, and specifically the passage quoted in the Didache, which you have quoted. All one needs to do is read the book of Malachi to the end, and it isn't very long either, but the answer to what I offer here comes in the final chapter in the closing words.

Malachi 1:11-14 KJV
11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.
12 But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the LORD is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.
13 Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the LORD of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the LORD.
14 But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the LORD of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen.

Malachi 4:4-6 KJV
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Malachi therefore includes the Gentiles in this because of what he says in the first chapter, which is quoted in the Didache. Why does the Prophet admonish the hearer and reader to remember the Torah of Mosheh? By other context in the book of Malachi that would be for the reason that when Meshiah comes he will be expounding the Torah, Prophets, and Writings, in all his teachings, which we now have written down for us in the Gospel accounts. And according to both the Torah, (Deut 18:15-19), and Peter who quotes from that passage in Acts 3:22-23, anyone who will not hearken to the Testimony of the Meshiah will be destroyed from among the people.

Since Paul was not a cherry picker, and neither were any of the other Apostles in any of the Apostolic writings, then the author of the Didache and his work should not be treated any differently: for if he was cherry picking, and ignoring context, and pilfering from the book of Malachi the Prophet so as to concoct his own new doctrine, then his work is to be rejected.

If therefore one truly seeks to treat the Didache with the respect it surely appears to deserve: then the author is upholding all the words of Malachi the Prophet, and therefore also upholding the Torah, and that includes the Shabbat, and these things are inclusive of the Gentiles according to both the Didache and the Word of the Father through Malachi the Prophet.

 

[reddogs]

It's from Christ's body, the Church, who He gave authority.

Gods Word is true, but that of man depends on self, so we can see the issue......

Acts 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

 

[reddogs]

No one has gone against God. Anything they did was with the full authority of Jesus Christ.

Please give us the text from Gods Word then...

 

[HTacianas]

Please give us the text from Gods Word then...

It's right here.

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It's right here.

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Should we apply this to worshiping other gods? stealing? coveting? Where does it end, if we can override God's holy commandments that He wrote and He spoke.

1 John 5:14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

Proverbs 28:9 One who turns away his ear from hearing the law,
Even his prayer is an abomination.

We should consider all scripture.

 

[HIM]

It's right here.

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

While you are waiting for a reply you might want to look at the overall context which is judgement not moving the goal post.


Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Matthew 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

 

[HTacianas]

While you are waiting for a reply you might want to look at the overall context which is judgement not moving the goal post.


Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Matthew 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

You're right that it is judgement, but it is judgement by the Church. Verses 15-17 grant the power of excommunication. Verse 18 is the power to "bind and loose". To bind and loose is an authority held only by the most senior rabbis of the time, and it means to make a decision with an indisputable authority. Verses 18 and 19 are authorities given to the Apostles assembled. If they assemble and decide a matter by majority vote it is binding. That is where the authority of an Ecumenical Council comes from.

 

[Gary K]

It's from Christ's body, the Church, who He gave authority.

So God gave men the right to change his law? Odd, because Jesus said this:

Matthew 5: 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Have heaven and earth passed away yet?

 

[Lukaris]

The Lord did condense the understanding of the law and prophets in the golden rule ( per Matthew 7:12 in which the details are given in Matthew 7:1-11). Jesus said on the 2 great commandments hang all the law & prophets ( Matthew 22:36-40). The Lord gave the rich young man the same instruction St. Paul gives us in the commandments ( see Matthew 19:16-31 and Romans 13:8-10).

This is what we need to understand in whether we observe the Sabbath the way Moses did or whether we worship on the Sunday resurrection day. While I defend the Sunday worship, I am not rejecting the validity of those who keep the sabbath.

 

[reddogs]

It's right here.

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

And yet if they are taken hold of the devil like Judas, and corrupted as we see the church of Rome, then what.

 

[prodromos]

Gods Word is true, but that of man depends on self, so we can see the issue......

Acts 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

You have taken Acts 5:29 very much out of context.

The apostles were brought in and made to appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. “We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.”
Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings!

 

[reddogs]

You have taken Acts 5:29 very much out of context.

The apostles were brought in and made to appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. “We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.”
Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings!

When a corrupted council declares true believers to be slaughtered, who do you chose to obey...

The Sixteenth-Century Massacre of the Waldensians of Mérindol

As the Reformation developed in France in the first half of the 16th century, there were several episodes of severe repression which preceded the Wars of Religion (1562-1598). These were times of great...

www.worldhistory.org

Who were the Waldensians, and what did they believe? | GotQuestions.org

 

[daq]

When a corrupted council declares true believers to be slaughtered, who do you chose to obey...

The Sixteenth-Century Massacre of the Waldensians of Mérindol

As the Reformation developed in France in the first half of the 16th century, there were several episodes of severe repression which preceded the Wars of Religion (1562-1598). These were times of great...

www.worldhistory.org

Who were the Waldensians, and what did they believe? | GotQuestions.org

From your link:

"While the early Waldensians still considered themselves Roman Catholic, they soon ran into problems with the established church for two reasons: they had no formal training as clergy, and they were handing out Bibles in the vernacular (instead of Latin). Church officials told Waldo and his Pauperes (“Poor”) to stop preaching without the consent of the local clergy."

Hmmm, seems not much has changed.

 

[prodromos]

When a corrupted council declares true believers to be slaughtered, who do you chose to obey...

The Sixteenth-Century Massacre of the Waldensians of Mérindol

As the Reformation developed in France in the first half of the 16th century, there were several episodes of severe repression which preceded the Wars of Religion (1562-1598). These were times of great...

www.worldhistory.org

Who were the Waldensians, and what did they believe? | GotQuestions.org

That has nothing to do with you quoting Scripture out of context, and if you look at my profile you will understand your point is moot.

 

[HIM]

You're right that it is judgement, but it is judgement by the Church. Verses 15-17 grant the power of excommunication. Verse 18 is the power to "bind and loose". To bind and loose is an authority held only by the most senior rabbis of the time, and it means to make a decision with an indisputable authority. Verses 18 and 19 are authorities given to the Apostles assembled. If they assemble and decide a matter by majority vote it is binding. That is where the authority of an Ecumenical Council comes from.

Context dictates it is for everyone. Verse 18:20 implies a much broader group than that what you say. It references everybody. And that is part of the context.
And secondly, to imply that the text has to do with anything other then judgement in respect to wrong doing is to say more than that is there.

 

[HTacianas]

And yet if they are taken hold of the devil like Judas, and corrupted as we see the church of Rome, then what.

I am not a member of the Church of Rome so it doesn't bother me. I'd rather look at the entirety of Christianity. But, if you think the Church of Rome is corrupt, let's see what Jesus had to say about corrupt religious leaders:

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,

Mat 23:2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.

Mat 23:3 “Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

 

[HTacianas]

Context dictates it is for everyone. Verse 18:20 implies a much broader group than that what you say. It references everybody. And that is part of the context.
And secondly, to imply that the text has to do with anything other then judgement in respect to wrong doing is to say more than that is there.

So, if context dictates everything (at least as you imply the context to be) and it applies to everyone, does everyone have the authority to make judgements binding on the Church? If two people in Chicago make a decision, then two people in Atlanta make a decision the complete opposite, what is truth?

 

[daq]

I am not a member of the Church of Rome so it doesn't bother me. I'd rather look at the entirety of Christianity. But, if you think the Church of Rome is corrupt, let's see what Jesus had to say about corrupt religious leaders:

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,

Mat 23:2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.

Mat 23:3 “Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

Several so-called church fathers admitted that Matthew was originally written in either Hebrew or Aramaic and the statement you've quoted only appears in Matthew.

Shem Tov Hebrew Matthew
Mat 23:3 ועתה כל אשר יאמר לכם שמרו ועשו ובתקנותיהם ומעשיהם אל תעשו שהם אומרים והם אינם עושים

ועתה כל אשר יאמר לכם ~ "[and] Therefore all which he says to you"

Who therefore do you suppose translated this passage into the Greek texts we now have?

This is why it doesn't make any sense when rendered into English: for the Greek text isn't even rendered correctly from what was most likely in the original Hebrew or Aramaic text.

The Scribes and the Pharisees sit in the seat of Mosheh: therefore whatsoever he says to you, (Mosheh), that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

The actual argument is that Mosheh is the greater authority among mortal men because they themselves sat in his seat or chair, (an actual symbolic stone seat which has been found in a few ancient synagogues), and thus they automatically confess that Mosheh is the higher authority, not themselves, by virtue of the fact that they sit in his seat. Therefore if their interpretations of the Torah are faulty then their interpretations will be overturned: which is indeed what was done away with, their faulty interpretations of the Torah.

The passage in the form which you have quoted it is merely just another churchy translation of a more ancient Hebrew or Aramaic text: and of course those who did this would want their adherents to believe their interpretation of the passage, for if the Master says in this passage to do everything the Scribes and Pharisees said, then surely now you will obey the will of your new hierarchy, the church and its leadership.