Did Paul Do This?

Big Drew

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Interesting to me...as I was reading the Bible this morning, I read this verse...maybe it wasn't on my mind other times when I've seen it and that's why it didn't register...isn't it awesome that we can gain something new each time we look at scripture?

1 Corinthians 11

17 But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. 18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, 19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.
 
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loNe

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Jesus told the disciples . . . Jews . . . to teach everything He commanded, to "all the nations", in Matthew 28:19-20, which I understand includes us Gentiles. Jesus started with Jews, but now their cup is running over to us :) Paul himself says we have been grafted in with the Jews > Romans 11:16-18. There are branches of Jews who have been broken away from the olive tree, and we Gentiles have been grafted in where certain Jesus-refusing Jews have been broken away. So, we have joined the true Jews who have been circumcised in their hearts > Romans 2:28-29.

So, what do you mean by a "kingdom message" which is no longer for people, now?

Even though we are no longer under the Law, Paul uses the Law, in various epistles, to minister to us who are children of God. And he says all scripture is "profitable". Our Apostle Paul says this in his New Testament epistle to Timothy > 2 Timothy 3:16.

But the gospel of grace does not stop at Jesus on the cross. Paul says "we shall be saved by His life," in Romans 5:10.

And "we shall be saved by His life."

Plus, our Apostle John says we have been perfected in His love making us "as He is" "in this world." (in 1 John 4:17). And this fits with how Jesus in His Sermon on the Mount says we need to be blessed . . . in our character . . . "poor in spirit", "meek", "pure in heart" . . . in Matthew chapter five. And what Jesus says is a match with how James says true wisdom is > James 3:17. So, what Jesus has preached is also in the message of James and Paul and other epistle writers. Our Sermon on the Mount is certainly still "profitable". And the Lord's prayer in John chapter seventeen is still for us . . . all Jesus in His own prayer has claimed for us who hear the words of the disciples > and Jesus prayed all this before He suffered and died for us, on the cross.

In Peter's message in Acts 2 Peter preached the resurrection of Jesus. And in Matthew 26:28 Jesus said the drink of the Lord's Supper is "My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for the remission of sins." (in Matthew 26:28) So, before His death, already Jesus had told them His blood would be shed for the remission of sins. So, the disciples were clearly told this before Paul was even saved!!! :)

But before Jesus died, He told them His blood "is shed for the remission of sins."

All Scripture is "profitable" (in 2 Timothy 3:16). Well, Jesus said His blood "is shed for the remission of sins." This is certainly applicable for us. Also, all Jesus says in the Sermon on the Mount is applicable for us. And you might read Paul's love chapter . . . 1 Corinthians 13 . . . which is a match with how Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount says we all need to become in love.

^^ it's arepeating Fault in christians
a crack
like an old LP going constantly in the same faulty groove

"we", love, are not "heathens" .

and Jesus, did NOT start out with 'jews'.
Get your terms [and therefore concepts!] right.
And learn the difference between a judahite and a jew.


we, love, are from the 10 tribes.

"heathens" , are in the far-east , arctic, africa, whatever.

As long you keep getting these basics wróng,
whatever you say, will have no Legal Right.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Interesting to me...as I was reading the Bible this morning, I read this verse...maybe it wasn't on my mind other times when I've seen it and that's why it didn't register...isn't it awesome that we can gain something new each time we look at scripture?

1 Corinthians 11

17 But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. 18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, 19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.
Yes, Paul was concerned that meetings of Christians in local church capacity should be profitable rather than the reverse. Good to keep in mind, yes.
 
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faroukfarouk

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If I'm not mistaken, N.T. Wright is a theologian that falls into this "New Perspective" camp...if I'm correct on that, I haven't really found much in Wright's theology that I disagree with...listening to some of his podcasts and reading some of his books is what made me realize I needed to try to place myself back in the 1st century as much as possible, by studying the history of the time and place, to be able to fully grasp the teachings of the New Testament...though, admittedly, that's a lot easier said than done.
I've heard a lot about NT Wright. Which is different from saying that I'm familiar with his writings.
 
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loNe

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.. i deeply, deeply Loathe that type thinking of millions of christians, who are so sentimentally Weak inside, that they consider it 'christian aka what Jesus taught', to be like a fearful dog whisking it's tail and trying to get subordinately closer,
because they mistake that sentimental Cowardness with 'a fruit from the spirit', without ever understanding what silly Trap they talked themselves into !

we
are
not
heathens

it isNOT in scripture like that,
and paul NEVER intended to say that :
the context has been deformed --- deliberately :
[and guess by who]

.. we most certainly aren't grafted in in the tribe of jews !
..He is só Furious about that silly thinking, concocted by those latter themselves, having millions of christians obeying Lies,
[well i promised the kind Mod i wouldn't use that specific word again] ,

its a Lie
and He wants that souls wake up !
 
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W2L

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.. i deeply, deeply Loathe that type thinking of millions of christians, who are so sentimentally Weak inside, that they consider it 'christian aka what Jesus taught', to be like a fearful dog whisking it's tail and trying to get subordinately closer,
because they mistake that sentimental Cowardness with 'a fruit from the spirit', without ever understanding what silly Trap they talked themselves into !

we
are
not
heathens

it isNOT in scripture like that,
and paul NEVER intended to say that :
the context has been deformed --- deliberately :
[and guess by who]

.. we most certainly aren't grafted in in the tribe of jews !
..He is só Furious about that silly thinking, concocted by those latter themselves, having millions of christians obeying Lies,
[well i promised the kind Mod i wouldn't use that specific word again] ,

its a Lie
and He wants that souls wake up !
A coward would never humble themselves as a child. It takes a man to do that. At some point you see the futility of contention.
 
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loNe

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..what is the Gospel ?
is it "bringing the bible to every possible Amazone tribe"..?
No.
- though many are busy with that, it is PAST TENSE :
because God will do that all in a fraction of time : when the Change comes.
so it's a side issue.

..is the Gospel "that everyone gets saved"...?
No.
that's a side-issue ; all good, but a side issue.

what is the Gospel then ????
- now, has come the Kingdom --- new Eden. Rev.



...but how, pray tell, that will come ; His world,
when millions succumb Cowardly to a tribe who works for the ENEMY :

because they never asked themselves
what is real Juda -- called Judahites [ and nót ***]....?
 
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loNe

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[i was wrong before - it wasn't jubilees but Jasher ;
i don't mind - if you only knéw how many times i was wrong..
- but do read,]

63 And Judah's anger was kindled against Joseph when he spoke this thing, and his eyes dropped blood with anger, and he said unto his brethren, How doth this man this day seek his own destruction and that of all Egypt!



64 And Simeon answered Joseph, saying, Did we not tell thee at first that we knew not the particular spot to which he went, and whether he be dead or alive, and wherefore speaketh my lord like unto these things?



65 And Joseph observing the countenance of Judah discerned that his anger began to kindle when he spoke unto him, saying, Bring unto me your other brother instead of this brother.



66 And Joseph said unto his brethren, Surely you said that your brother was either dead or lost, now if I should call him this day and he should come before you, would you give him unto me instead of his brother?



67 And Joseph began to speak and call out, Joseph, Joseph, come this day before me, and appear to thy brethren and sit before them.



68 And when Joseph spoke this thing before them, they looked each a different way to see from whence Joseph would come before them.



69 And Joseph observed all their acts, and said unto them, Why do you look here and there? I am Joseph whom you sold to Egypt, now therefore let it not grieve you that you sold me, for as a support during the famine did God send me before you.



70 And his brethren were terrified at him when they heard the words of Joseph, and Judah was exceedingly terrified at him.



71 And when Benjamin heard the words of Joseph he was before them in the inner part of the house, and Benjamin ran unto Joseph his brother, and embraced him and fell upon his neck, and they wept.


..don't you see the beauty of that ?
and that THIS is "the one staff" of Ez 37 ?

don't you see that Juda - judahite - is Spelled, at the moment ?

thinking he is "the one real true heir of God " :
yet blind for understanding he is powered by Sorcery...?

..his constant blending himself in to this [*tribe*] shóws he's Blind, still !

When
will he admit
that the 10 tribes -- so many christian souls by the West -
are his brother......?

and admit , finally, that this brother saw a long time ago, already, how Blind and stubborn he kept himself ?
read the story !
 
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Christina C

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If I'm not mistaken, N.T. Wright is a theologian that falls into this "New Perspective" camp...if I'm correct on that, I haven't really found much in Wright's theology that I disagree with...listening to some of his podcasts and reading some of his books is what made me realize I needed to try to place myself back in the 1st century as much as possible, by studying the history of the time and place, to be able to fully grasp the teachings of the New Testament...though, admittedly, that's a lot easier said than done.

N T Wright wrote an interesting book on Paul entitled "What Paul really said" - I'm reading it at the moment.
What Saint Paul Really Said: Was Paul of Tarsus the Real Founder of Christianity?: N. T. Wright: 9780802871787: Amazon.com: Books
 
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loNe

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heartache
last post i promise
..- look please,

..you know the line "..and the violent will take the Kingdom by force"
right
but He is adressing His' !
what He means, is, that His souls need to go outwards :
to realize their position He gave them ;
and NOT submit to the false religious constructs of [*that tribe*] ,
masking as if it were the concept which God gave !!

He
loves each and everyone of you who fights
but He wants you to take your Legal Positions

especially the males - because they are the ones targeted by lucifer :
if they cherish the false Legal positions, lucifer wins, anyway !
...since, simply put, male represents the legal Right ;

so know your terms
understand what you talk about
don't mix terms up :
every word, you as [christian] male say,
has, and affects the realm around us :

and if it are lies what you say [read: think],
because of False ideas you got Tricked into telling others,
you provide the Legal Right for lucifer to continue his matrix.


You wanted to know how ancient-egypt knew how their matrix is continued by the very words we think ...?
there it is.
 
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loNe

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....my girl told me dozens of times the vision she had
God's throne
and a long row of waiting males in front of that

..and by each one He asked 'why didnt you represent me'
and they hung their head in shame - and then the next

i don't want that !
i could not face any of you,
knowing that either i or you would be ever in that situation !

...His desire is to have His eden back

not all the nonsense around it

i beg you take it seriously -
cause He aids anyone supporting His desire
 
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rockytopva

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The Apostle Paul Said..

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. - 2 Corinthians 3:6

If I could go back in time and have a chat with the guy I would warn him of killing that very Spirit. Churches without the Holy Spirit can be as somber as a funeral home and for him to be careful.
 
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Brother, in my opinion...Christians would still find reasons for dissension and dis-unity even if we didn't have Paul's epistles in the Bible.

I read a post in these forums that basically said, "Many Christians interpret the Bible any way they want to interpret the Bible."

Personally, I believe that there is one correct way to interpret the Bible....though I haven't learned how to correctly interpret the Bible yet
There are ones who have doctorates in theology and divinity and still feel they are still learning to interpret the Bible correctly. Hermeneutics is a very comprehensive and challenging area of involvement, because it not only involves studying the text itself, but also the original languages, history and culture around the time the text was authored. People who base an interpretation based just on the text they see in front of them could be correct, and then they could be wrong. For example, to use the New Testament as a non-negotiable, hard and fast lawbook, is ignoring the history and changes of culture that have occurred since the time it was written. Hermaneutics also compares things that are written in different parts of the Bible and how they affect other sections. For example, how has the Law of Moses applied to Christian believers? What has taken place between what Jesus taught His disciples and what happened after the Day of Pentecost? How does Paul's letters extend the teachings of Jesus in the gospels? Why are different sections written and who are they written to? Which parts of the Bible are there for our general education about the ways of God with people, and which parts are directed at us as specific instruction? These are the challenges that hermaneutics presents us. It is a fascinating and time consuming study with great rewards of insight and understanding.
 
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Saint Nod

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I love it when churches can agree to disagree and put their differences aside in order to minister together. A Pentecostal church I used to be a member of would often join together with a Methodist and a Baptist church to minister in the park across from the housing projects in our town...no need to argue when we're showing the love of Christ to the world.
I heartily agree! Have a great day Big Drew!
 
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These are the challenges that hermeneutics presents us. It is a fascinating and time consuming study with great rewards of insight and understanding.

Although I have not studied NT Greek or Hebrew in seminary yet, I was required to take just one hermeneutics class in seminary.... In my opinion, I think that one hermeneutics seminary class is grossly insufficient....
 
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miknik5

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^^ it's arepeating Fault in christians
a crack
like an old LP going constantly in the same faulty groove

"we", love, are not "heathens" .

and Jesus, did NOT start out with 'jews'.
Get your terms [and therefore concepts!] right.
And learn the difference between a judahite and a jew.


we, love, are from the 10 tribes.

"heathens" , are in the far-east , arctic, africa, whatever.

As long you keep getting these basics wróng,
whatever you say, will have no Legal Right.
Are these "righteous" words?

How
do you define a heathen?
 
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sparow

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In 1 Corinthians Paul speaks about divisions in the Church. How some were saying they were of Paul, others Apollos, others Cephas. When addressing this he asked, "Are we not all of Christ?" Meaning just because it was the message of Paul or Apollos that lead someone to Christ, that doesn't mean they are a follower of Paul or Apollos.

In 2 Peter, Peter writes that some of things Paul writes about are hard to understand and some folks twist them like they do other scriptures.

In thinking about this I realized that a lot of division we have amongst ourselves does come from Paul's writings.

Part of the error within some dispensational thought, for example, is that Paul preached a separate Gospel of Grace for the gentiles.

The Calvinist idea of election and predestination is heavily based on the book of Romans.

Sola Fide from Galatians.

The Continuist vs Cessationist debate comes from opposing views of 1 Corinthians.

The rapture from Thessalonians...

I can go on...but I wonder what it is about Paul's letters that have caused so much division? What is it about them that makes them hard to understand? Does it just seem like there's more division based on his teachings because he wrote the majority of the NT?

I have wondered if we didn't have Paul's epistles in the Bible if we would be more unified. Not that I'm saying we should disregard them...because there is much truth to be found in his words...nor do I think that Paul is to blame, but our interpretations of what he said...but is there a remedy?

Luke 12:51 (NKJV)
51 Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.

The rejection of Paul by a few could be such a division in the family of Christ.
 
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com7fy8

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The rejection of Paul by a few could be such a division in the family of Christ.
But what we do to the least of Jesus' disciples, we do to Jesus. So, if one rejects Paul, then that one is rejecting Jesus > Matthew 10:40, Luke 9:48, John 13:20. And Paul says if anyone rejects what God has Paul give to us, they do not reject man but they reject God > 1 Thessalonians 4:8. And Jesus' sheep hear His voice > John 10.

People can reject what is true because they do not know Jesus Christ's voice. Possibly, they have gotten bonded with a church leader who has brought them to what does not really save them, and then they will hear the voice of that leader and others with similar ideas and practices. They can make an idol of whomever they bond with . . . like how spouses and friends and sisters and brothers of wrong people can be so sure there is nothing wrong with the wrong people. We can be in denial that we have been fooled.

And I can fool my own self; I don't need any help!!

So, only God can really enlighten me and correct me and change me into being pleasing to Him and loving the way He wants. His example of how He is in love can prove how wrong I am. Possibly, if someone has not been exposed to how God is, that person has no real proof that he or she is wrong. When Job saw Jesus, no words were necessary: Job repented in sackcloth and ashes, seeing how he was not really right . . . in comparison with Jesus :)
 
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sparow

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Perhaps you didn't read the OP correctly...but I'm not exposing others to my folly...I'm questioning the many different beliefs that have come out of Paul's writings...I'm not saying the letters are not inspired...as mentioned in the OP, even Peter said that Paul's writings could be interpreted to mean different things to different people...I'm not rejecting Paul's writings just pondering why there are so many different, and contradictory, beliefs surrounding them.


Have you read this: http://www.barriewilson.com/pdf/Taking-Paul-at-His-Word.pdf

The author may not be Christian but he is a university professor with a Phd in theology; I was impressed with this paper but disappointed with others he wrote.
 
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sparow

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But what we do to the least of Jesus' disciples, we do to Jesus. So, if one rejects Paul, then that one is rejecting Jesus > Matthew 10:40, Luke 9:48, John 13:20. And Paul says if anyone rejects what God has Paul give to us, they do not reject man but they reject God > 1 Thessalonians 4:8. And Jesus' sheep hear His voice > John 10.

People can reject what is true because they do not know Jesus Christ's voice. Possibly, they have gotten bonded with a church leader who has brought them to what does not really save them, and then they will hear the voice of that leader and others with similar ideas and practices. They can make an idol of whomever they bond with . . . like how spouses and friends and sisters and brothers of wrong people can be so sure there is nothing wrong with the wrong people. We can be in denial that we have been fooled.

And I can fool my own self; I don't need any help!!

So, only God can really enlighten me and correct me and change me into being pleasing to Him and loving the way He wants. His example of how He is in love can prove how wrong I am. Possibly, if someone has not been exposed to how God is, that person has no real proof that he or she is wrong. When Job saw Jesus, no words were necessary: Job repented in sackcloth and ashes, seeing how he was not really right . . . in comparison with Jesus :)


Jesus warned the apostles, "beware lest you be deceived," and in Revelation He declares "all" are deceived. Jesus said, He wouldn't do anything unless He told the apostles first; Paul was a surprise to them; Paul is the prophet who testifies of himself.
 
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