Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

[SBC]

There is a false doctrine for every evil desire a believer may have to be snatched out from the Scriptures.

You should know.

The one that appeals your pride?

I didn't say that. YOU DID. Read again YOUR WORDS. YOU own your words, not me.

Is thinking you can not sin...

I didn't say that. YOU DID. Read again YOUR WORDS. YOU own your words, not me.

And, that those believers who know they can sin, are not saved.

I didn't say that. YOU DID. Read again YOUR WORDS. YOU own your words, not me.

Pride is a terrible sin.

And? WHO is talking about that? YOU.
I am not interested in YOU identifying YOUR sin.

You must have a very limited scope of what sins are if that be the case. Very limited.

Review your own words, you own them, not me.
And now you want to sum up your limitations.

Why are you confessing YOUR sins, and YOUR limitations, with YOUR words, to me?
IF you are seeking forgiveness....
Go confess YOUR sins, YOUR limitations, with YOUR words, to the Lord, not me.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

Col 2:8-15

When Sin is the Transgression of the Law, how does someone who is DEAD to the Law, Sin?

Further HOW DOES someone who is DEAD Sin?

To bad, they didn't FEEL that STING of a crucifixion DEATH, to understand it's meaning.

To bad, they are Dead men walking, KEEPING their badge of bodily SIN, alive and kicking. ugh!

To bad, they missed the MYSTERY revealed. Their BODY IS DEAD. Dead men know NOTHING,
and they endlessly, and repeatedly, and successfully, PROVE, dead men KNOW nothing!

To bad, they missed the MYSTERY revealed. Men born of God, are SPIRITUALLY BORN, not BODILY BORN!

To bad, they missed the MYSTERY revealed. "spirits" born of God, HAVE NEVER SINNED. THEY CAN NOT SIN!!! They are "spirits" born of Gods Seed.

DUH!!! Gods SEED is pure, holy, uncorrupted, without sin!!!

Pretty sad, some men, want to HANG ON TO, WALK IN, TESTIFY OF, DWELL ON, their DEAD crucified body!

When Scripture clearly teaches, to receive His SEED, receive His birthing of a pure spirit, a spirit that CAN NOT SIN, and WALK in their spirit, WITH His Spirit.

What can be worse than revealing their lack of understanding?

Testifying, AGAINST men, who do understand, and testify of their belief and trust in Gods TRUTH!

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JLB777]

It's not a process, it's been accomplished on the Cross for us, by Jesus.

Transformation is a process.

Maturing in Christ is a process.

Growing up into the fullness and stature of Christ is a process that requires Pastors and teachers, apostles and prophets, as well as evangelists to accomplish, which is why God has them in the church.

11 And He Himself gave some to beapostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, Ephesians 4:11-14


You will have to do better than state your opinion, in the face of all the scripture I quoted.

Please address each scripture that I quoted and prove to everyone in this thread, that the scriptures I used don't really mean what they say.

• For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might becomethe righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

Those who are "in Christ" have the authority and power and right to become sons of God, which is what John teaches us.

To become sons of God, or to become the righteousness of God in Christ, denotes a process, which requires our co-operation as well as our diligence.

• But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12

We who are "in Christ", are called to be transformed into the image of Christ by the renewing of our mind, which is our responsibility to co-operate with the Spirit of grace

• I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans 12:1-2

Here are just some of the things we are to be doing, as born again believers who are in Christ, to bring about this maturing and transformation into sons of God; into the righteousness of God in Christ, since God has given us all things that pertain to this very end: godliness and eternal life.


2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 2 Peter 1:1-9

Key Passage -

• But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.

19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2;19-21

Key Passage -

• Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1


Key Passage -

• let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

God has given us His grace to accomplish these things, which is His Spirit; The Spirit of Grace.


Here is what Grace teaches us about this matter:

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.

• the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

JLB

 

[SBC]

Transformation is a process.

Maturing in Christ is a process.

You confuse two things.
One JIMINZ was speaking specifically of Jesus' accomplishment.

JIMINZ said: ↑
It's not a process, it's been accomplished on the Cross for us, by Jesus.

You are speaking of a man's accomplishing.

Christ accomplishED. (in man)
Men are accomplishING. (in understanding)

Two different entities. mankind and the Lord
Two different actions. quick/done and ongoing per an individuals own speed

God Bless,
SBC

 

[PeaceByJesus]

And since that has already been acknowledged....
Kinda hard not to notice, sin, forgiven with animals blood, sin, sin, sin, he sins, she, sins, everybody, sin, sin, sin, for 4,000 years, taught, spoken, sin, sin, sin.

Once again, that is out of context from what I said and substantiated, which was that of believing brethren in the church/born again believers being called and or treated as sinners, who could and did sin, be chastened for such, exhorted not to, and be forgiven when they confess, which they are called to do. Eyes have thee but see not.

and exhorting them not to sin, and to confess when they do as needing forgiveness, and that provision is made for their forgiveness when they confess,

Exhorting them not to sin? Gee, what a concept. And the forgiveness....oh yes, don't forget that, "yearly" festival!! Forgive, forgive, forgive. TRADITIONS! ANIMALS BLOOD!

And what? How did the majority of the men do? Obviously not so good, since they "practiced" sinning, and forgiving with ANIMALS BLOOD!

Once again, that is out of context from what I said and substantiated, which outside of David, was contextually that of NT believers in the church.

and that God sometimes needs to chasten them for sinning, nor would they even need forgiveness, or be called sinners,

Awe, a consequence for SINNING. Gee, what a concept. Certainly not like the WORLD today, whereby NOT doing right, and doing WRONG, is routinely, rewarded!

Once again, that is out of context from what I said and substantiated, which was contextually that of NT believers in the church.

then it is obvious "whosoever is born of God, can not sin" cannot mean what you assert.

Now, see what happens when, you attempt to speak on behalf of God, when you do not know or understand the Truth? Referring to your comment....

First of all, you are not speaking on behalf of me. Because what I was speaking of, was in direct relationship to Scripture. You are speaking on behalf of God.

More arrogance. You insist on making your interpretation as being the word of God, ignoring what the original language conveys, along with interpretive texts.

Secondly, as you skipped on past, men for 4,000 years, were SINNING, being forgiven, with ANIMAL'S BLOOD.

Even at the time of Jesus' arrival on earth; Men were still sacrificing ANIMAL'S BLOOD.
Even after Jesus' departure; Men were still sacrificing ANIMAL"S BLOOD.

Once again, that is out of context from what I said and substantiated, which was contextually that of NT believers in the church.

Apparently, you are unaware of HOW Scripture it taught. Because IF you knew, you would KNOW, it is taught, to men by association of what MEN in their little pea brain can relate to.

Do you think God arrived on scene, and ANNOUNCED, He is the "FATHER" of all men?
No, that was Moses, who was taught, "A" Father, is the head of a family, a people, a tribe. It was Moses, who FIRST declared God in Heaven, is the "FATHER" of all.
Do you think God arrived on scene, and ANNOUNCED, He is the "FATHER" of all men?
No, that was Moses, who was taught, "A" Father, is the head of a family, a people, a tribe. It was Moses, who FIRST declared God in Heaven, is the "FATHER" of all.

So about the Disciples/ Apostles, the men Jesus chose to go and teach.
Who WERE they "teaching"? Gee...
Oh ya, MEN who were STILL, making BLOOD ANIMAL Sacrifices, for forgiveness of WHAT? "their sins"!!

And Paul, who was he teaching? Oh ya, the Gentiles, WHO HAD NEVER, practiced Animal Sacrifices, for forgiveness of their sins!

So about the Disciples/ Apostles, the men Jesus chose to go and teach.
Who WERE they "teaching"? Gee...
Oh ya, MEN who were STILL, making BLOOD ANIMAL Sacrifices, for forgiveness of WHAT? "their sins"!!
And Paul, who was he teaching? Oh ya, the Gentiles, WHO HAD NEVER, practiced Animal Sacrifices, for forgiveness of their sins!
So, WHO is the scripture speaking TO, about committing SINS?
The answer IS; Everyone who; continues to "get" their forgiveness from Animals Blood, and everyone who, is not committed to Christ.
And why does the concept of committing SINS, being spoken to THEM, resonate with them? Gee, does 4,000 years of tradition, ring a bell?
So, WHY, 70 years after Jesus ascended, did the Jews STOP, sacrificing Animals Blood?
Because, they all of a sudden, believed Jesus was their Messiah?
No, Because ALL OF A SUDDEN, their Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed. And according to Jewish Law, the sacrifice must be made, in the Temple in Jerusalem.
So, WHY, didn't the Gentiles, immediately, get the concept of Jesus' BLOOD, replacing, Animals' Blood?

Gee, hummm. Oh ya, duh. Gentiles were NOT STEEPED in knowledge of the "Jewish" God, they hadn't been making ANY blood sacrifices. WOW, what a new concept. Getting WASHED in another mans BLOOD!! Sounds inviting doesn't it?

So what a JOB for Paul, eh? Paul, a Jew with a Jewish mother, himself a Jewish Pharisee, and himself a Roman citizen, with a Roman father..... Teaching Gentiles, OLD LAWS, that do not APPLY, while teaching a NEW WAY, that does APPLY.

Many Gentiles were eager to listen to Paul, and believe in Christ. But then, do not forget, their own history. Steeped in the knowledge of God, right? Wrong.

So, were some Gentiles BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit.....without knowing all the "do's and don't's". Gee, HOW COULD THAT BE? Doesn't God require a man to be perfect, BEFORE, he is Baptized with the Holy Spirit? No.

So, do you WONDER why Paul Continued and Kept teaching Gentiles, in submission to Christ, HOW to serve Christ, according to His Way?

Are you, a NEWLY converted saved and born again person? Did you learn HOW TO serve the Lord, BEFORE, you converted? Were you an ADULT, before you had heard anything ABOUT the Jewish God? Because THAT was the times, in which Paul taught Gentiles: and they were taught by familiar terms.

It appears SIN, is a familiar term to you, "since", you appear content to "own it", and "appears" you are in agreement with some others, who, CONTINUE to sin.

The often reproofs of you has reduced you to rambling rhetoric and more misrepresentation (or blindness) of what i said, and wresting of Scripture. What I said and substantiated (and can provide more of) as regards this was clearly contextually that of NT believers in the church redeemed by Christ.

Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. (James 4:5-10)

All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (1 John 5:17)

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (2 Timothy 2:19)

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults [sins: Eph. 1:7; 2:5; Col_2:13] one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (James 5:14-16)

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)

... ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11) Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (1 Corinthians 6:16-19)

...he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32)

Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. (1 Timothy 5:19-20)

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:7-10)

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (1 John 2:1)

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father...Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. (Galatians 4:6; 5:1-2) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. (Galatians 5:16)

Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath...And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:26,30)

There are more, but all of these show that believers - as referring to those who are born again - can sin, and none are addressed to those who are not born again (unless you think descriptions like "the Spirit that dwelleth in you" refers to the unregenerate), and such have a choice whether to walk in the Spirit over the flesh, or grieve the Spirit by sinning. And since they can and do sin, then forgiveness and cleansing is provided for them as they confess their sins and walk in fellowship with Christ and each other.

Apparently, you MISS, the importance of CHRIST'S BLOOD. It was a ONE TIME event, that He gave HIS BLOOD, for forgiveness of ALL SIN.

See, His BLOOD, has a FOREVER Power, unlike the temporary and necessity to repeat, Animal's Blood.

Jesus' BLOOD is the LAST Sacrifice, for forgiveness of SIN.

When a man submits to the Lord, to be washed IN JESUS' BLOOD - it's a done deal.
The man is forgiven ALL of His SINS. THAT is why Scripture teaches;

Matt 26 [28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Apparently, you MISS what I write. No amount of pasting of texts which affirm believers have forgiveness of their sins show that believers no more have any need for repentance and confession of sins.

Once again, one of many shown are written to redeemed believers:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (1 John 1:7-10; 2:1)

It really is of NO CONSEQUENCE to me, that you reject what Scripture teaches.

And while what I have said may benefit you, it is moreso, for bystanders; since it has escaped your notice. I am not the one objecting to Scriptures, you are.
It is not about "interpretation", and solely, is about understanding, specifically Gods Understanding. Not mine, not yours.
Mark 7 [13] Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
God Bless, SBC

Rather, this is what manifestly applies to you, for all to see. Why should ye be stricken any more? (Isaiah 1:5)

 

[SBC]

There are more, but all of these show that believers can sin,

So? Who said they couldn't?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JIMINZ]

Rom 6:2,3
2) God forbid. How shall we,
that are dead to sin,
live any longer therein?
3) Know ye not,
that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


When SIN is the Transgression of the Law, how does someone who is DEAD to SIN, Sin?

 

[GenemZ]

I said, Scripture says, a man born of God can not sin.
I said I believe scripture.

That is what I said.



The thoughts of my heart:
is I believe in the Lord, and TOLD Him.
is I trust the Lord is Faithful.
is I trust what Scripture says is true.
is ONCE, I became born of God, I am forever, WITH, the Lord.
is God has made me WHOLE, body, soul, spirit.
is God has given me FULL faithfulness to Him only.
is God KEEPS me in FULL faithfulness to Him only.
is I can never again SIN, stand against the Lord.

The intents of my heart:
is to reveal the truth of what the Lord has done for me
is all men sin, and some men might choose to be freed from SIN.
is all men who choose to be freed from SIN, and be in standing WITH the Lord, can do
...so, by also calling on the Lord and confessing their belief in Him, and He shall also
...free them from Sin, and their standing be WITH the Lord forever.

It appears, some men choose, to call on the Lord, submit to the Lord, be forgiven their Sins, and yet testify, they CONTINUE, to stand against the Lord, by CONTINUING to Sin.

Scripture says, IF they are born of God, they can no longer Sin, they can not Sin.
Yet some men claim, they are born of God, and continue to Sin.

Some men, will defy Scripture, call it wrong, misunderstood, attempt to change what it says, accuse others who trust to believe Scripture.........IN AN ATTEMPT, to justify, their own claims, of being born of God, and continuing to Sin.

I do not believe, men born of God, continue to Sin......
THEY testify THEY DO continue to Sin.

So, we have men, WHO are speaking, WHOM anyone can hear or read what they say -
So, a man in disbelief, a man just submitting to Christ, a man with little knowledge and understanding of Scripture ~ listening to such testimonies....

Understands what?
Gods Christ's BLOOD, is no different than Animal's BLOOD?
NOTHING CHANGED?

But the TRUTH IS, everything within a man changed.
Christ's BLOOD, given ONCE, forgives all sin of a man, who believes and trusts Him.
And the Seed of God, within a man, changes a man, forever.

WHAT CHANGE? By some men's teaching, WHAT changed within a man? Nothing!
They continue to Sin, stand against the Lord, and repeatedly ask God to forgive them.

So, only such men, can explain, to an other, HOW Christ's BLOOD, the Seed of God, fails in KEEPING a man FREED from Sin, and WHY, since nothing changes, they should bother to convert.

Explain that Gene -
Explain WHY a man should become forgiven, converted, freed of sin, when you teach; you don't believe it.

What I am asking YOU, is, Why should a man, listen to you, become interested in conversion, when you give them two opposites, of your belief?

Freed from sin, but not really?

God Bless,
SBC

In a nutshell.

Here is what I believe is your error in thinking.

"Scripture says, IF they are born of God, they can no longer Sin, they can not Sin.
Yet some men claim, they are born of God, and continue to Sin."

I claim that believers are still "able" to sin. Not, that they will continue to sin.

When you get that much, maybe I can elaborate.

 

[SBC]

In a nutshell.

Here is what I believe is your error in thinking.

"Scripture says, IF they are born of God, they can no longer Sin, they can not Sin.
Yet some men claim, they are born of God, and continue to Sin."

I claim that believers are still "able" to sin. Not, that they will continue to sin.

When you get that much, maybe I can elaborate.

I claim that whosoever is born of God can not sin.

Since we are not making the same claim, what is to elaborate on that point?

How about some more claims?

What exactly is the WHOLE of God?

What exactly is the WHOLE of man?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[GenemZ]

I claim that whosoever is born of God can not sin.

Since we are not making the same claim, what is to elaborate on that point?

How about some more claims?

What exactly is the WHOLE of God?

What exactly is the WHOLE of man?

God Bless,
SBC

Are you telling everyone here that for you?

Its impossible for you to sin (according to what you believe the Scriptures tell us?)

 

[SBC]

Are you telling everyone here that for you?

I claim that believers are still "able" to sin. Not, that they will continue to sin.

Are you telling everyone here that for you?

Its impossible for you to sin (according to what you believe the Scriptures tell us?)

Why do you feel the need to reword what I claim regarding myself?
Are my to the point claims difficult to understand?

What exactly is the WHOLE of God?

What exactly is the WHOLE of man?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[GenemZ]

Are you telling everyone here that for you?



Why do you feel the need to reword what I claim regarding myself?
Are my to the point claims difficult to understand?

What exactly is the WHOLE of God?

What exactly is the WHOLE of man?

God Bless,
SBC

You tell us... since you are the only one here who seems to know.

Your claim bounces all over the place. You cite Scripture with an assumed understanding... and then tell us? "That settles it!" Its based upon ignorance of what the Scriptures actually mean. Yet? You assume we all share in the same over simplified approach you take which makes its expedient for you to get your way. You are accountable.... but you think you can not be wrong, nor are not lacking understanding in what you quote? You want your own little clique? A mutual; admiration society? Fine. There will always be someone who will be like minded in their flesh and will fully agree with you.

But, you are going to lose your rewards if you continue as you have been going. If that was not at stake? I would just ignore you and leave you on your own.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15


11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which
is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear;
for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will
test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has
built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned,
he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.​

You're heading for a BIG barn fire. But? You will be saved.

If it were impossible to sin if one were genuinely saved? Then there could be no loss of eternal rewards. Verse 15 tells us all that you have been wrong in your stubborn assumption.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

PeaceByJesus said: ↑

There are more, but all of these show that believers can sin,

So? Who said they couldn't?

You did: "I claim that whosoever is born of God can not sin."

Despite your attempted sophistry, I defined what I meant by "believers," "which was that of believing brethren in the church/born again believers believers being called and or treated as sinners, who could and did sin, be chastened for such, exhorted not to, and be forgiven when they confess, which they are called to do. Eyes have thee but see not."

"There are more, but all of these show that believers can sin, and none are addressed to those who are not born again..."

Wresting my words as well as Scripture is all too typical for you, as has been well exposed, as such souls are fit to be left to their delusions.

 

[SBC]

You tell us... since you are the only one here who seems to know.

Your claim bounces all over the place.

No. My words and my claims are constant.

The bouncing all over, is when people use their words and pretend, they are speaking for me. Like you do.

You cite Scripture with an assumed understanding... and then tell us?

I claim what applies to me, and use scripture that my position is in agreement with.

If it doesn't apply to you, so what? It doesn't affect me.

"That settles it!"

Why does it bug you, that I trust the Lord is faithful and true?

Its based upon ignorance of what the Scriptures actually mean.

And the point of your accusation is to identify yourself as the authority on Scriptural meaning?

Yet?
You assume we all share in the same over simplified approach you take

I have never assumed I share in the over simplified approach you take.

which makes its expedient for you to get your way.

Calm yourself. Don't me upset, because my way is not your way.

You are accountable....

And? So? Nothing has indicated otherwise.

but you think you can not be wrong,

For untwisting your thinking for me, and actually stating the truth of the matter, as I have said. I trust the Lords TRUTH, (and no I do not think He is wrong.) I agree with Him.

nor are not lacking understanding in what you quote?

As I have said before; I trust the knowledge of the Scripture is true, and I trust the understanding the Lord gives me.

It does not affect me, if you disagree.

You want your own little clique? A mutual; admiration society? Fine.

That really wasn't necessary for you to share your thoughts, your words or your wants.

There will always be someone who will be like minded in their flesh and will fully agree with you.

And?
Not a phenomenon, my friends and I often fully like-minded agree we will grills steaks together.....and then in like-minded agreement we actually eat the steaks we grill! lol

But, you are going to lose your rewards if you continue as you have been going.

Oh no!!
I am going to lose rewards for trusting and believing and following the Way of the Lord?

That's some weird kind of new gospel you preach.

You're heading for a BIG barn fire. But? You will be saved.

I know where I walk.
But you, humm...

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

PeaceByJesus said: ↑

There are more, but all of these show that believers can sin,

You did: "I claim that whosoever is born of God can not sin."

Despite your attempted sophistry, I defined what I meant by "believers," "which was that of believing brethren in the church/born again believers believers being called and or treated as sinners, who could and did sin, be chastened for such, exhorted not to, and be forgiven when they confess, which they are called to do. Eyes have thee but see not."

And? Why does what "YOU" define have anything whatsoever to do with me?
You are trying to APPLY "your defining", to what I believe, THEN, attempt to pretend, I agree with you, I don't.

I said, BORN OF GOD. Not one of your definitions said that. But yet you went on and on and on Scripture after Scripture attempting to prove, my belief was wrong....while all the time USING YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING BY YOUR OWN WORDS AND DEFINING OF YOUR OWN WORDS.

Wresting my words as well as Scripture is all too typical for you, as has been well exposed, as such souls are fit to be left to their delusions.

You are EXPOSED - YOU are the one who wants to argue against your own words, and pretend you are arguing against me.

I can only presume, you can not actually claim you are BORN OF GOD, because in the SAME Scripture, it says whosesoever IS Born of God, can not sin.

And it is obvious, by ALL the scriptures you post, you really WANT to be counted among believers WHO DO SIN.

Well friend, there ARE many believers WHO DO SIN.
And THEN there ARE believers WHO BECOME BORN of GOD, and they CAN NOT SIN.

I know where I STAND, and WHY.
And you are abundantly clear where you STAND, and WHY.

And No, I have no desire for my standing to be UN-BECOMING, and stand with you.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[GenemZ]

Why does it bug you, that I trust the Lord is faithful and true?

Bug me? You know how that sounds to others who have no doubt that they are saved?
You sound like some captured Christian by some invading power who wants you to denounce your faith.

Its weird to hear. As if we are some alien invading army seeking to destroy Christians wanting to make them denounce their faith in Christ. Does it bug me?

But, that's what you.. in a sense... have made this into.

Tell me? Why does it bug you, that I trust the Lord is faithful and true, and know I can sin and will always be forgiven if I would only do what 1 John 1:9 tells all of us?

You are condescending in what you have chosen to troll us with. Its actually being mean mean to others by what you do.

If believers can not sin if they are born of the Spirit? Then why did Paul tell believers who were born of the Spirit the following?

To put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness." (Ephesians 4:22-24)​

You are in total denial, sir!

You can't handle the reality and the pressures of the very real spiritual warfare we are in. So, you have chosen to try to escape into a little world where you pasted cherry picked passages on the wall next to your bed.

 

[SBC]

Bug me? You know how that sounds to others who have no doubt that they are saved?

What bugs you has nothing to do with the salvation of other men.

You sound like some captured Christian by some invading power who wants you to denounce your faith.

Its weird to hear. As if we are some alien invading army seeking to destroy Christians wanting to make them denounce their faith in Christ. Does it bug me?

But, that's what you.. in a sense... have made this into.

Tell me? Why does it bug you, that I trust the Lord is faithful and true, and know I can sin and will always be forgiven if I would only do what 1 John 1:9 tells all of us?

You are condescending in what you have chosen to troll us with. Its actually being mean mean to others by what you do.

Here's quick link to a thesaurus, that should help you find some more derogatory names to call me. Maybe you could just make a tidy list, and get it out of your system, since your attempt at comedy is a fail.

Thesaurus by Merriam-Webster

If believers can not sin if they are born of the Spirit? Then why did Paul tell believers who were born of the Spirit the following?

That distinctly looks like you are asking me two questions.
I distinctly remember asking you two questions several posts ago.

You are in total denial, sir!

You can't handle the reality and the pressures of the very real spiritual warfare we are in. So, you have chosen to try to escape into a little world where you pasted cherry picked passages on the wall next to your bed.

Won't you consider using the thesaurus, and forego all your weird psychobabble?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[GenemZ]

Won't you consider using the thesaurus, and forego all your weird psychobabble?

God Bless,
SBC

For I am going to forgo you.. I have seen enough false teachers to not need to see another one go through his antics. I have to find the Ignore feature for this forum.

 

[JLB777]

You confuse two things.

Again you present no scripture, just opinion.

You confuse two things.
One JIMINZ was speaking specifically of Jesus' accomplishment.

JIMINZ said: ↑
It's not a process, it's been accomplished on the Cross for us, by Jesus.

You are speaking of a man's accomplishing.

Christ accomplishED. (in man)
Men are accomplishING. (in understanding)

Two different entities. mankind and the Lord
Two different actions. quick/done and ongoing per an individuals own speed

God Bless,
SBC

More opinion without addressing each point I have made with the supporting scriptures that I presented.

It's obvious where your "doctrine" comes from.


JLB

 

[PeaceByJesus]

And? Why does what "YOU" define have anything whatsoever to do with me?
You are trying to APPLY "your defining", to what I believe, THEN, attempt to pretend, I agree with you, I don't.

I said, BORN OF GOD. Not one of your definitions said that. But yet you went on and on and on Scripture after Scripture attempting to prove, my belief was wrong....while all the time USING YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING BY YOUR OWN WORDS AND DEFINING OF YOUR OWN WORDS.

Dude, this is not rocket science:

Does Paul's address the Corinthians as those who, "are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God," (1 Corinthians 6:11) and "your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" (1 Corinthians 6:19) denote born again believers?

Yes.

Does he also call them carnal and chasten them for their sinful ("works of the flesh:" Galatians 5:19-21) sectarianism and strife, glorying in men (1 Corinthians 3:3,4,20) and infighting, and defrauding their brethren (1 Corinthians 6:1-8) and for being "puffed up" and their toleration of sin (1 Corinthians 5:1,2) and warn them against fornication in which they would join Christ to a harlot ("take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot") and defile the temple of God since "your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own"? (1 Corinthians 6:19)

Yes. But somehow if born again believers cannot sin then having the Holy Spirit dwelling in them does not mean they are born again, or the Holy Spirit left them before they did, in which case Paul is mistaken that if they engaged in fornication then they would take the members of Christ - since the Holy Spirit was in them - and join His body to a harlot.

Absurd.

Does "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? (James 4:4-5) denote born again believers?

Yes.

Does the Holy Spirit also call the same believers sinners? Yes. "Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded." (James 4:8)

Yes.

In the next chapter is James addressing the unregenerate when he exhorts "my brethren" (Ja. 5:10) to "Confess your faults [sins Eph. 1:7; 2:5, Col. 2:13] one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much"? (James 5:16)

No.

Is John addressing the unregenerate when he states,

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"? (1 John 1:8-2:1)

NO, as has been shown, this is directly addressed to believers.

You are EXPOSED - YOU are the one who wants to argue against your own words, and pretend you are arguing against me.

You are simply blowing smoke in the face of what refutes you.

I can only presume, you can not actually claim you are BORN OF GOD, because in the SAME Scripture, it says whosesoever IS Born of God, can not sin.

Which fallacious conclusion is compelled by your recalcitrant refusal to accept that whosesoever IS Born of God, can not sin does not mean cannot sin at all, but as the Greek conveys, refers to practice, what characterizes a born again believer, which is the only conclusion that is correct (outside of saying the spiritual man within does not sin) in the light of the whole of Scripture and under the New Covenant.

You might as well argue that "He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father" (John 14:12) can only mean one thing, that those who do not perform greater supernatural miracles than Christ are not born again.

And it is obvious, by ALL the scriptures you post, you really WANT to be counted among believers WHO DO SIN.

Oh, how i wish and pray to be one who never does, but am thankful that God is still working on me, and for the wonderful promise, "that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ," (Philippians 1:6) instead of relegating all to the heap of the unregenerate who believe on the Lord Jesus for salvation and thus repent of their sins after being convicted by God.

And i pray that the esoteric elitists who sinfully claim they do not sin, even when they "trespass" against others will see the error of their ways.

Well friend, there ARE many believers WHO DO SIN.

And THEN there ARE believers WHO BECOME BORN of GOD, and they CAN NOT SIN.

Repeating your unholy mantra will not make it true, though that delusion may bring you comfort. And the only real believers in Christ are those who are born again, yet as shown, Scripture addresses the same as souls who may sin as such, grieving the Spirit within them.

I know where I STAND, and WHY. And you are abundantly clear where you STAND, and WHY.

And adding mind reading to your repertoire of ramblings is consistent with your esoteric elitism.

And No, I have no desire for my standing to be UN-BECOMING, and stand with you.God Bless, SBC

Your standing is UN-BECOMING in the sight of the word of God, especially since your delusion includes the absurdity that trespassing against others is not a sin against God ("I sin no more, any kind of sin...Trespass AGAINST men? Yes. Sin AGAINST God? No.") and relegating those who oppose you to being unregenerate.