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Did you just willfully chew out Peacebyjesus?.
Am I supposed to think highly of this A.T. Robertson because you do?
I have never heard of the man.
I have quoted Apostles, and you don't believe them, you don't respect my position on the issue, but I am supposed to honor yours?
I don't think we have anything further to discuss.
You have a good evening.
It's a little of both... we can walk on the spirit now but we are still trapped in fleshly bodies. Just look in the mirror... have you aged? Is there decay? Disease? Death? The wages of sin is death and we still die which means Yeshua has paid the price and earned the right to perfect us, but we remain (at this time) imperfect. When he comes we will be changed, until then we are what we are.
Kind of going way off from where I commented and where you still haven't responded. Bottom line, we have not been perfected, not made incorruptible, the work is not done. We are still in a fallen state, still decaying, still dying, still exposed to all manner of unrighteousness. We do belong to Him now... we seek perfection... we seek His will over the world... but we won't live out our lives without falling short at some point. That is a fact because... we have not been perfected yet.I really don't think Paul meant in verse 8:8 that our body can never please God. I believe he was referring to the flesh, meaning carnal mind which hasn't been regenerated, don't you? That can never please God. But then he says in 8:9 but we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if we have the Holy Spirit, otherwise we don't belong to Christ. That is not referring to the physical body, but what will go on even after we receive our immortal body.
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I personally have no regard for the Supposed Translations of today.
Kind of going way off from where I commented and where you still haven't responded. Bottom line, we have not been perfected, not made incorruptible, the work is not done. We are still in a fallen state, still decaying, still dying, still exposed to all manner of unrighteousness. We do belong to Him now... we seek perfection... we seek His will over the world... but we won't live out our lives without falling short at some point. That is a fact because... we have not been perfected yet.
I have repeatedly pointed out that we have not been perfected, we have not been made incorruptible. We still decay, get disease, die. And yet you make it sound like we can't fall short... kind of confusing to me because if we haven't been perfected we are, by definition, imperfect.I'm sorry, what haven't I responded to. Can you ask me again? Or give me the #?
I have repeatedly pointed out that we have not been perfected, we have not been made incorruptible. We still decay, get disease, die. And yet you make it sound like we can't fall short... kind of confusing to me because if we haven't been perfected we are, by definition, imperfect.
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Of TODAY
It is only apples and oranges because you changed the subject. I said we can still sin and that Paul spoke in present tense when he said he was the chief sinner. That stands against your paradigm and you took issue and then to back up why Paul (and I) have this view, I pointed out that we haven't been perfected yet and until we are, we will fall short from time to time. Not in rebellion, just from being fallen. You skipped over that and went straight to something that has nothing to do with this topic. Being lost now, I will back out.I see it as apples and oranges. We are talking about two different things, our body of flesh which will decay, and our soulish flesh our carnal nature which is what becomes a "new creation." Its not an all or nothing.
It is only apples and oranges because you changed the subject. I said we can still sin and that Paul spoke in present tense when he said he was the chief sinner. That stands against your paradigm and you took issue and then to back up why Paul (and I) have this view, I pointed out that we haven't been perfected yet and until we are, we will fall short from time to time. Not in rebellion, just from being fallen. You skipped over that and went straight to something that has nothing to do with this topic. Being lost now, I will back out.Be blessed sis.
Do you think that conversion is not a willful act, or is salvific if it is not (cf. Acts 8:36,37)? And that likewise denying the Lord by formally (signified by circumcision) freely volitionally converting to a false gospel as in this case is not also a willful act? But this could be a case of some being deceived into thinking that this was not inconsistent with salvation by faith, which Paul thus tells them it surely is.PeaceByJesus said: ↑
Christians are warned (n being addressed as Christians) against committing will-full (versus out of weakness) sin:
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:1-4)
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So is the above addressing Willful Sin or, Unknown Sin?
As one who is attempting to engage in a debate, which substantially rests upon the meaning of 1John 3:9 and the like, then you should know or at least respect esteemed scholars in Greek Biblical language..
Am I supposed to think highly of this A.T. Robertson because you do?
That is consistent with your arguments for your heresy.I have never heard of the man.
That is sheer ignorance. Every cult quotes apostles, as the devil himself quotes Scripture to deceive souls as you insolently have, using texts in isolation, and which is manifest by comparing Scripture with Scripture, which makes it clear being a believer does not mean one absolutely ceases to sin, but that (writing to "my little children"), "if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." (1 John 2:1)I have quoted Apostles, and you don't believe them, you don't respect my position on the issue, but I am supposed to honor yours?
Since you do not engaging in reasonable discussion, but arrogantly assert, or wrest Scriptures, and dismiss what refutes you thereby, then you made that to be the case.I don't think we have anything further to discuss.
If so... why would Paul use present tense "I am" when referring to himself as a sinner? He wasn't rebellious, we know that, but he also knew he could fall short because he... and us... still exist in a fallen state. We are not like Adam walking in the cool of the day with the Lord, but we 'will' be.Oh, okay. Well I believe the apostles meant we can be perfect now. What that perfection entails is through perfect love. But we can do nothing without the infilling of the Holy Spirit.
I'll say good night for now, brother.
Well, I agree that we disagree and that is a mature attitude for us both to accept.I mean all I can say is I disagree with you as well... in fact you're view is more extreme then the one i'm against.
Some believe that we are still sinners even those who are saved but even they don't believe in declaring it.
I believe in declaring "being then made free from sin ye are a servant of righteouenss" and "now unto him who is able to keep me from falling".
There isn't a right/wrong answer to this as far as I can tell though, people in every faith are divided on this issue IK people in my faith for example who believe hey we are all still sinners and some who don't believe in walking in that as I do, and both are mightily used by God.
Same goes with people in other faiths, some people in the keep sin title thing some do.
Additionally, a mistake isn't the same as a sin... btw a sin is a mistake but a mistake against God, it's not like being late for class....or making a poor financial decision.
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