Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

[1stcenturylady]

It was a statement.

I didn’t ask you to comment for me on your beliefs.

You have already said that you have never told a lie to anyone or ever wanted something someone else has even in thought or ever been angry or unloving to anyone.

Although somehow you managed to bear false witness against me, so your Bible must be different then mine, because you sinned against me.

So I’m not sure you should tell me how God views what I do.

Seems you apply scripture very liberally. I do not

Just because I don't lie, and I did discern your false motives, doesn't mean I deserve your obvious provoking. If you don't like what I believe, or you can't maintain a righteous standard of living and are embarrassed, doesn't mean nobody can.

 

[1stcenturylady]

No 1 John 1:8 is very clear--"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

If you claim to be without sin you are sadly mistaken. Why else would we ask God "to forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"?

"We" is anyone who claims to be a Christian, even those who are not, and have no truth in them. Let's see if when you read in context you can see the difference between those who are truly Christian, and those who just say they are.

1 John 1:6-10
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[RaymondG]

Again, we all sin, both by omission and commission. Are you claiming to be without sin?

I Am what God says I am. I can, of my own self, do nothing. But I understand your message. Go and continue to sin....because whether you think you wont or not.....you will sin....just remember to repent after.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I Am what God says I am. I can, of my own self, do nothing. But I understand your message. Go and continue to sin....because whether you think you wont or not.....you will sin....just remember to repent after.

Raymond, did any of the apostles teach to "Go and continue to sin....because whether you think you wont or not.....you will sin....just remember to repent after."?

Didn't Jesus teach to "Go and sin no more"? Not "Go and continue to sin." And didn't Jesus give us the Holy Spirit to empower us? What was the power for? Just gifts, or to make us truly righteous in thought and deed?

 

[RaymondG]

Raymond, did any of the apostles teach to "Go and continue to sin....because whether you think you wont or not.....you will sin....just remember to repent after."?

Didn't Jesus teach to "Go and sin no more"? Not "Go and continue to sin." And didn't Jesus give us the Holy Spirit to empower us? What was the power for? Just gifts, or to make us truly righteous in thought and deed?

Why are you asking me this? I was summarizing someone else's interpretation, which also happens to be the opinion of many christian as well......although not stated as bluntly..... It is more like...."Try your best not to sin......just know you will fail.....this is why we have the blood."

 

[1stcenturylady]

Why are you asking me this? I was summarizing someone else's interpretation, which also happens to be the opinion of many christian as well......although not stated as bluntly..... It is more like...."Try your best not to sin......just know you will fail.....this is why we have the blood."

Sorry, It sounded like you were agreeing with him. My bad.

 

[Archivist]

I Am what God says I am. I can, of my own self, do nothing. But I understand your message. Go and continue to sin....because whether you think you wont or not.....you will sin....just remember to repent after.

I have not said that we should purposely sin. But we are going to do so because we are weak human beings. We all sin, and not one of us can say that we are without sin.

 

[Archivist]

"We" is anyone who claims to be a Christian, even those who are not, and have no truth in them. Let's see if when you read in context you can see the difference between those who are truly Christian, and those who just say they are.

1 John 1:6-10
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

And you are entitled to your interpretation. However, if you say you are without sin you deceive yourself because none of us is without sin.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I have not said that we should purposely sin. But we are going to do so because we are weak human beings. We all sin, and not one of us can say that we are without sin.

Weak? You mean our flesh is weak to put it in the language of scripture?

Romans 8:8-9
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[1stcenturylady]

And you are entitled to your interpretation. However, if you say you are without sin you deceive yourself because none of us is without sin.

When you say "sin" are you talking about willful sin, or unknown sin?

Christians do not commit willful sin, but do commit unknown sin while we are still being perfected. "Christians" who commit willful sins do not have the Holy Spirit. They do not abide with Christ, and do not belong to Him. Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you."

 

[Ken Rank]

I have never thought Paul was speaking that he presently sinned more than anyone else, meaning "chief." He would literally be admitting he wasn't even a Christian. He would have no right to write any epistle on the Christian walk. Besides, he would be contradicting what he has said regarding sin.

The Greek is present tense but do understand... there is a difference between chata'ah (Hebrew for sin, missing the mark but more unintentional or unknown) then pesha (rebellion, willful sin). Paul was saying he was the chief of chata'ah.. he was using chata'ah, no other word fits there.

You have glossed over my main point. You (we) have not been perfected, we have not been made incorruptible (yet). By definition we are corruptible and imperfect.

 

[ToBeLoved]

"We" is anyone who claims to be a Christian, even those who are not, and have no truth in them. Let's see if when you read in context you can see the difference between those who are truly Christian, and those who just say they are.

1 John 1:6-10
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Well then you’ve never had repent. Or ask Jesus to forgive any sins after you were initially saved.

Jesus must have wrote about repentance and the forgiveness of sins for whom?

 

[Archivist]

When you say "sin" are you talking about willful sin, or unknown sin?

Christians do not commit willful sin, but do commit unknown sin while we are still being perfected. "Christians" who commit willful sins do not have the Holy Spirit. They do not abide with Christ, and do not belong to Him. Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you."

Christians don't commit willful sin? So you have never become upset with someone because of what they did only to later learn that they were in the right and you were wrong? That is willful on your part.

Can you honestly say that you really love you neighbor as yourself? Really?

Did you do everything you could have possibly done to help the recent hurricane victims. Everything? Really?

Now, I have never said that Christians should go right on sinning. Of course we should not. But despite our best efforts we are going to fall short and sin.

Perhaps this article would be of help: Does the Bible Say True Christians Never Sin? | Desiring God

 

[ToBeLoved]

Just because I don't lie, and I did discern your false motives, doesn't mean I deserve your obvious provoking. If you don't like what I believe, or you can't maintain a righteous standard of living and are embarrassed, doesn't mean nobody can.

The point is that I didn’t have false motives.

You just cannot take that you sinned against me.

You just must believe I had false motives to accept your theology. You have a horse in that race. I don’t.

I admit I sin. Although I didn’t do what you accuse me of, I’ve done other things.

So you need to accept your error. Not accuse me anymore

 

[shaheem white]

Well friend - when I was naturally born, I was born IN SIN.
I did not believe in God, love God, trust God, know God.
I have not heard His Word, believe His Word, or Trust His Word.
I do not recall speaking against Him. But then I didn't speak for Him either.
I did nothing to glorify His name.
I learned as a small child, the name of Jesus.
Mom said to love Him, so I did.
Mom said don't steal, don't lie, don't cheat.
So I didn't.
We were dirt poor, but, Mom said we were rich in Jesus.
So, when I saw others well off with "things", I asked them why they were not rich in Jesus.
The truth revealed. Some said they were, some said they didn't believe in Jesus.
I trusted my Mom, and as I was older and could read, she showed me in Scripture, what she has taught me.
When I submitted my LIFE to the Lord, it was in FULL trust, He would KEEP me in faithfulness to Him only.
When I repented; I repented for not believing, not loving, not trusting, not knowing, Him, His Word, not glorifying His name, and corrupting the life in my body and soul that He had given to me.

THAT, MY SIN of standing against God, is what He forgave me for. And why He forgave me is BECAUSE I believe and submitted my life to Him, His care, His keeping, His power. And nothing whatsoever can undo, His forgiveness, cleansing my body, sanctifying my body, crucifying my body, His restoring my soul, His quickening my spirit and His Spirit dwelling within me.

And nothing whatsoever can ever again cause me to stand against God, or sin. He has freed me from sin. He dwells within me, and He does not dwell in sin.

The piddly things you mention, between men, are not sin against God.
They are trespasses of men against men, and resolved between me.
Men do not forgive sin. Only God forgives sin.

God Bless,
SBC

all sin is against God! David said "against you and you only have I sinned!"

 

[GenemZ]

ok, so when the bible stated:
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins."

Please...Note what that tells us... He shall "save us from our sins." Nowhere does it say "making us free of sin." But instead, saving us from our sins. Sins that we commit.

Just like we are not of this world. Yet, still in this world.. God saves us from the world in which God's truth will save us.

While we remain on earth we remain in a body wanting to sin. But.. we will be saved from having to follow the ways of the flesh by obedience to learning and truth about the Filling of the Spirit. The power of God's grace is what saves us from having to sin.

But... Free will still reigns, even after salvation.. So, if we "grieve," or "quench" the Spirit? God ceases from being able to save us from the actions and consequences of our sins in our earthly walk. Being that true. Yet, even if a believer becomes a horrible back slider? He remains saved from the eternal consequences of his sins because they will never be counted against him because of the Blood of Christ. He will remain saved once he reaches heaven and leaves his old body behind.

 

[GenemZ]

Yes, and whom the son sets free is free indeed. It is the sinning again, after being freed that im having a hard time with.

Sound like... You must have a very limited list of what you think constitutes sins... For example... being self righteous is near impossible to detect by the self righteous unless he is rebuked often enough by others. Lust is easy to detect. But, self righteousness? Is a blindness.

 

[GenemZ]

all sin is against God! David said "against you and you only have I sinned!"

All sin breaks fellowship with God. For God can not be one with us when we sin.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Greek is present tense but do understand... there is a difference between chata'ah (Hebrew for sin, missing the mark but more unintentional or unknown) then pesha (rebellion, willful sin). Paul was saying he was the chief of pesha... he was using chata'ah, no other word fits there.

You have glossed over my main point. You (we) have not been perfected, we have not been made incorruptible (yet). By definition we are corruptible and imperfect.

Hi again, Kenny LOL

When you read Romans 8:9, that we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, do you believe Paul is referring to after we receive our immortal body? I ask, because many seem to believe that. I don't. I believe we are not in the flesh, if we walk in the Spirit, now.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Well then you’ve never had repent. Or ask Jesus to forgive any sins after you were initially saved.

Jesus must have wrote about repentance and the forgiveness of sins for whom?

I didn't say that. I did repent. It was on February 9, 1977, thirty years after I begun going to church. It was then I received power. Any sins I have committed since then were unintentional, or unknown to me that they were missing the mark. Only those who have received this baptism of the Holy Spirit can relate to what I'm saying, and how I live my life.