Did mind–body dualism exist before original sin?

[timothyu]

People that lock themselves in a box of theology soon see anybody outside as the enemy, thus defeating the purpose of the Kingdom.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

2 Corinthians 4:18
"For the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal"
via Uriel Anderson

 

[pittsburghjoe]

You seeing the connection to particles being temporal ..and waves being eternal?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

If physical sin isn't allowed in God's Kingdom, how was the tree and fruit represented to Adam and Eve? Was it made of Angel sin which isn't physical? Is the link to this physical fallen reality Satan's sin? Are we swimming in Satan's sin and need Jesus to get out of here?

 

[timothyu]

If physical sin isn't allowed in God's Kingdom, how was the tree and fruit represented to Adam and Eve? Was it made of Angel sin which isn't physical? Is the link to this physical fallen reality Satan's sin? Are we swimming in Satan's sin and need Jesus to get out of here?

The sin was not the using and abusing of the knowledge. The sin was and is, for both angels and man, putting our will ahead of the will of God.

 

[ViaCrucis]

If physical sin isn't allowed in God's Kingdom, how was the tree and fruit represented to Adam and Eve? Was it made of Angel sin which isn't physical? Is the link to this physical fallen reality Satan's sin? Are we swimming in Satan's sin and need Jesus to get out of here?

No. All of what you said here is wrong. Every single word in this paragraph is wrong.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[mlepfitjw]

what is mind spirit dualism"?

 

[Jamdoc]

No. All of what you said here is wrong. Every single word in this paragraph is wrong.

-CryptoLutheran

You were almost quoting Luke Skywalker there

 

[pittsburghjoe]

God didn't want this physical reality for us. Physicality leads to death ..Satan

It is Satan that is going to cause the torture in hell. You don't get to blame God for it. We chose to be under Satan's rule in this fallen reality and if you stick around after Judgment Day, he is going to take out his anger on what he hates most ..humans.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

what is mind spirit dualism"?

I said "mind–body dualism", you know, you have a physical body and a soul?


2 Corinthians 4:18
"For the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal"

 

[pittsburghjoe]

In order for us to think LIKE God, in His image, our souls had to be eternal. You are choosing who you want to follow in this reality.
Our soul accesses something infinite to function in the physical brain.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

If an eternal soul is required to think like God ..what do you think happens to a soul that doesn't want infinite order (peace)?

The soul is eternal, it has to keep existing somewhere. If it choses to remain in disorder, that is what it is going to get.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

We are experiencing the choice Adam and Eve had but from within the fallen reality. We are choosing disorder or order.
Adam and Eve got us into the mess, but we have the choice to get out of it with Jesus.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

John 14:3
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."

via Kevin Stewart

Could this mean physical bodies made of sin are not compatible? Jesus can obviously freely swap between types of environments.

 

[Religiot]

We have a soul and body today but were we just a soul beforehand?

Mind–body dualism sounds like wave-particle duality to me. Would that mean we were quantum waves before sin?

Does sin have something to do with physical objects?

No, to the first and second questions, and yes to the last question.

 

[ViaCrucis]

No, to the first and second questions, and yes to the last question.

Equating physicality with sinfulness is at the very least deeply problematic, if not overtly heretical. We confess faith in God the Father maker of heaven and earth, seen and unseen. God's creation is innately good, this physical universe is good. Sin and death pollutes the cosmos, which is why St. Paul says in Romans 8 that creation currently labors under slavery, awaiting the day when the Lord returns and the resurrection of the dead--when God makes all things new, and all of creation is healed and restored in the Age to Come.

We aren't sinful because we are physical.
We are sinful because we are sinners, held under the bondage and captivity of sin and death; from which Christ our Lord rescues and liberates us by His death and resurrection. Granting us forgiveness of our sins, reconciliation and peace with God, eternal life both now by our union to Jesus by grace through faith and on the Last Day the resurrection of our flesh and its glorious transformation where this mortal becomes immortal, this perishable becomes imperishable. What being sown in dishonor is raised in honor.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jamdoc]

God didn't want this physical reality for us. Physicality leads to death ..Satan

It is Satan that is going to cause the torture in hell. You don't get to blame God for it. We chose to be under Satan's rule in this fallen reality and if you stick around after Judgment Day, he is going to take out his anger on what he hates most ..humans.

God made a physical world where Adam and Eve were to have dominion over that physical world. They were able to eat and drink.
Read your bible sometime and stop falling for cryptoplatonism.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

How does light work in Heaven? I know it is there, but is a source required? Does is just appear wherever someone needs it? Maybe we are the light? If we become one with God ..and God is light ..does that mean something?

 

[ViaCrucis]

How does light work in Heaven?

It doesn't, because photons are particles that exist in material creation. "Heaven" in the sense of "the abode of God" isn't a place, it's the sublime reality of God as the transcendent ruler over all things. That is why Solomon after building the Temple says, "The heavens, not even the heavens of heavens can contain You". It's why we read in the Prophet Isaiah, "The heavens are My throne, and the earth My footstool".

In the ancient world where the cosmos was conceived as there being the earth and then the heavens above the earth--the sky, the place where the sun, moon, and stars are observed from an earthbound observer to speak of God as in the highest of heavens (and, even more than that as the quote from Solomon shows) it to speak of God's utmost glory and power. God is above everything we can see.

In the pagan religions of the nations surrounding Israel, the gods were identified with the celestial realm--the sun, moon, stars, etc. Which is why they worshiped the celestial bodies as divine, or as manifestations of the divine. The "wandering stars" i.e. the planets were identified often with some of the most important deities, which is why the Greeks and Romans assigned to them the names of their gods: Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.

The ancient Israelites, in contrast, by their experience and encounter with the true God who made all things, knew that their God wasn't like those false gods. He wasn't part of the heavenly sphere, but above it, He made it. He made the sun and moon and stars. These celestial bodies aren't gods, they aren't divine powers, they are mere impersonal creatures.

God is bigger than His creation, above it. And the language which our spiritual ancestors had available to them, and which they used in Scripture, was to speak of God being more than, bigger than, higher than all else. The heavens were the highest, biggest, greatest, most majestic thing they could conceive--it was all this glory and light and phenomenon happening way up there, but that wasn't God, God was above that, He made that stuff.

That's what "heaven" in reference to God means. So no, there is no "light" in heaven, except the Uncreated Light of God--which isn't literal light, but refers to God's divine glory. The "light" that poured out of Christ at His Transfiguration, the blinding "light" that Moses experienced on Mt. Horeb, isn't created light, it isn't photons, it's the unfathomable light of God about which St. Paul writes about, "He dwells in unapproachable light" (1 Timothy 6:16).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Explain how a physical person could be one-with-God. I think our heavenly bodies are something different than what you are expecting. You are probably right about the light being God's Glory instead of what we think of as light. So we should become one in God's Glory?