• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Did Jesus tell us to follow Moses 10 commandments?

Yarddog

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Jun 25, 2008
17,219
4,402
Louisville, Ky
✟1,043,207.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Yes, that's the ideal, and it should work, for one perfected in love.
It does work but one cannot become perfected in love without surrendering to God's Spirit.
Presumably anyone that holy might have no reason to listen to anyone, other than directly to God, so complete would be the union.
We are all called into this. Were you not baptized in God's Holy Spirit through baptism? God is alive within you. You are a holy temple and should sings praises to our Lord Jesus. We all need to understand our place in the body of Christ.

You nor anyone can please God without the Holy Spirit making it possible. Listen to his Spirit. That is what it is for.

Please forgive me but I removed the first part of this to show what I mean.
1962
God wrote on the tables of the Law what men did not read in their hearts.

It is God's Spirit which allows man to read what is in their hearts. Far too many Catholics and other Christians fail to embrace this Spirit. I was there at one time but God led me to the truth. I have heard Catholics call it the Long Night of the Soul.


 
Upvote 0

fhansen

Oldbie
Sep 3, 2011
16,321
4,086
✟401,404.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
It does work but one cannot become perfected in love without surrendering to God's Spirit.

We are all called into this. Were you not baptized in God's Holy Spirit through baptism? God is alive within you. You are a holy temple and should sings praises to our Lord Jesus. We all need to understand our place in the body of Christ.

You nor anyone can please God without the Holy Spirit making it possible. Listen to his Spirit. That is what it is for.

Please forgive me but I removed the first part of this to show what I mean.
1962
God wrote on the tables of the Law what men did not read in their hearts.

It is God's Spirit which allows man to read what is in their hearts. Far too many Catholics and other Christians fail to embrace this Spirit. I was there at one time but God led me to the truth. I have heard Catholics call it the Long Night of the Soul.

In real life, as the Church teaches in her wisdom, most of us continue to struggle against sin, even if only venially; complete surrender is the goal, rarely if ever the full reality in this life. We don't become perfect overnight. So to suggest that we don't profit from physically hearing and remembering God's will vis a vis righteousness, as if the Spirit is in complete control at all moments interiorly, is wishful thinking for most of us, not for you apparently. Either way the Church considers it beneficial and right to teach that obedience of the Ten Commandments is obligatory for the justified person, regardless of how, admirably, unconsciously and spontaneously they may be obeyed.
 
Upvote 0

Yarddog

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Jun 25, 2008
17,219
4,402
Louisville, Ky
✟1,043,207.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
In real life, as the Church teaches in her wisdom, most of us continue to struggle against sin, even if only venially; complete surrender is the goal, rarely if ever the full reality in this life. We don't become perfect overnight. So to suggest that we don't profit from physically hearing and remembering God's will vis a vis righteousness, as if the Spirit is in complete control at all moments interiorly, is wishful thinking for most of us, not for you apparently. Either way the Church considers it beneficial and right to teach that obedience of the Ten Commandments is obligatory for the justified person, regardless of how, admirably, unconsciously and spontaneously they may be obeyed.
You or I never become perfect on our own or through our own efforts. That is why we need the cross. Jesus is our perfection. By embracing the cross the blood of Christ cleans us. By letting go of the need to be obedient to a set of rules which were nailed to the cross and actually having faith in the Spirit of God, that Spirit begins to take away the desire to sin.

I have experienced this over and over. I was once a grave sinner, lost in the world of pornography, alcohol, and other items which could have landed me in federal prison.

After being called into the Catholic Church by God, I found peace. I thought that the way that I should repay his love was to stop sinning by obeying the 10. That didn't work because the harder I tried the harder it became to stop.

I cried out to God in anguish and I heard his voice. He said, "I did not ask you to be perfect, Jesus has done that for you." I then had a vision of the cross and understood. I cast my sinful nature onto the cross and embraced my freedom. Righteousness.
I stop trying to stop sinning and put my faith in God. After several months I realized that the desired that once consumed me were disappearing. The HS was teaching me to walk. That started almost 40 years ago and I pray it will never end.
I love our Father in heaven, our brother Jesus Christ, and our Helper the Spirit. I depend on them and never want to depend on myself again.

God bless
 
Upvote 0
Jan 2, 2014
22
16
✟25,289.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I totally agree that we are to obey the 10 commandments ( Matthew 5:17-20) as already stated. But we are also charged to obey to Golden Rule, and love our enemies. All rules in the Bible come down to 3 things: Loving/Obeying God, being kind to our fellow man, our own good.

Why are we not to wear blended cloth or let animals like different kinds of cattle cross breed - idk. The only thing I can really came up with after thinking about it was a constant reminder to the Jews that they themselves were NOT to interbreed with pagans. Constantly practicing purity of a sort in every day life helps remind the Jews that they were to stay separate. They actually did a very good job - maybe the constant reminders worked. But I don't think the rules were without purpose. We may just not know why - so many things have been lost.
 
Upvote 0

jamespyles

Active Member
Jun 30, 2011
260
81
Boise, ID
Visit site
✟32,448.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
We are to extend the Kingdom of Heaven over the earth. As the Kingdom of Heaven has more dominion over the earth, there is "more" of heaven here, more miracles, more healing, more love, more peace, more thankfulness, more kindness, more of Him. This is our job and our purpose in the present.
That sounds a lot like the Jewish concept of Tikkun Olam or "Repairing the World". From a Jewish perspective, the idea is that we (Jews and Gentiles alike) have a responsibility for doing our part in repairing the world by doing good. Visiting the sick, comforting a grieving widow, any kindness you can think of, even picking up a piece of litter off the sidewalk. Some believe in helping to repair the world, we, in some small way, are performing deeds that will hasten the coming of Messiah, who will repair the world in a big, big way once and for all.

That said, even a casual look at the world around us today reveals that the world is getting worse, not better, thus I don't think the New Covenant has come anywhere close to reaching fruition.

I listened to an excellent sermon series on the Book of Hebrews a few years back. The series was a detailed, year-long study of Hebrews from an untraditional perspective. I reviewed each and every sermon and here's my review on one called The Holy Epistle to the Hebrews: The Partisans.

The gist of it is that while Jesus is presently King Messiah, he is not physically among us (as he will be when he returns to Holy Jerusalem), and thus we can consider him a "King in Exile" (bear with me, I know this will be difficult to digest). Our role here on Earth is to behave as if he has already returned, acting as if we are partisans or freedom fighters in a Kingdom occupied by enemy forces, sort of how freedom fighters opposed the German Army in Nazi occupied France during World War Two.

Our "country" is only liberated once the King returns with his army to do battle with and defeat the invaders. This makes a great deal of sense to me and maps well with the current nature and character of the real world around us.
 
Upvote 0

YouAreAwesome

☝✌
Oct 17, 2016
2,181
969
Lismore, Australia
✟102,053.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That sounds a lot like the Jewish concept of Tikkun Olam or "Repairing the World". From a Jewish perspective, the idea is that we (Jews and Gentiles alike) have a responsibility for doing our part in repairing the world by doing good. Visiting the sick, comforting a grieving widow, any kindness you can think of, even picking up a piece of litter off the sidewalk. Some believe in helping to repair the world, we, in some small way, are performing deeds that will hasten the coming of Messiah, who will repair the world in a big, big way once and for all.

That said, even a casual look at the world around us today reveals that the world is getting worse, not better, thus I don't think the New Covenant has come anywhere close to reaching fruition.

I listened to an excellent sermon series on the Book of Hebrews a few years back. The series was a detailed, year-long study of Hebrews from an untraditional perspective. I reviewed each and every sermon and here's my review on one called The Holy Epistle to the Hebrews: The Partisans.

The gist of it is that while Jesus is presently King Messiah, he is not physically among us (as he will be when he returns to Holy Jerusalem), and thus we can consider him a "King in Exile" (bear with me, I know this will be difficult to digest). Our role here on Earth is to behave as if he has already returned, acting as if we are partisans or freedom fighters in a Kingdom occupied by enemy forces, sort of how freedom fighters opposed the German Army in Nazi occupied France during World War Two.

Our "country" is only liberated once the King returns with his army to do battle with and defeat the invaders. This makes a great deal of sense to me and maps well with the current nature and character of the real world around us.
There is a lot of strong evidence the world is getting better, not worse. Look up "hans rosling statistics" on YouTube for a great demonstration on ted talks. Also https://singularityhub.com/2016/06/27/why-the-world-is-better-than-you-think-in-10-powerful-charts/

I can see why one would take the line of a king in exile. But I believe there are better explanations for why it is taking a long time:
1. Humans still have free will.
2. The truth of Who God is, is still being wrestled with even among believers.
3. Some dark dominion takes specific strategy to remove and we are still learning how to overthrow it

I see Jesus is here as King within us by the Holy Spirit. He said it is better to be in this kind of relationship with us than even when He was here on the earth. War continues and He is here fighting rather than away somewhere waiting to return. My thoughts on it anyways...
 
Upvote 0

jamespyles

Active Member
Jun 30, 2011
260
81
Boise, ID
Visit site
✟32,448.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
There is a lot of strong evidence the world is getting better, not worse. Look up "hans rosling statistics" on YouTube for a great demonstration on ted talks. Also https://singularityhub.com/2016/06/27/why-the-world-is-better-than-you-think-in-10-powerful-charts/

I can see why one would take the line of a king in exile. But I believe there are better explanations for why it is taking a long time:
1. Humans still have free will.
2. The truth of Who God is, is still being wrestled with even among believers.
3. Some dark dominion takes specific strategy to remove and we are still learning how to overthrow it

I see Jesus is here as King within us by the Holy Spirit. He said it is better to be in this kind of relationship with us than even when He was here on the earth. War continues and He is here fighting rather than away somewhere waiting to return. My thoughts on it anyways...
I didn't say we didn't have the Holy Spirit, we just don't have it in its fullness, and we won't until New Covenant times have reached their fruition when Messiah returns.

Yes humans have free will and even with the Word written on our hearts in the future, we still will. There will always be wrestling among believers until Messiah comes and sets us all straight.

I don't really have the time to watch videos, but I looked up Hans Rosling. Didn't get much about how he believes the world is getting better but frankly, I don't think we human beings have the ability all by ourselves to perfect the world. We can do our part, but Messiah has to do the "heavy lifting."

In Judaism, there's a dual belief that Messiah will come either when the Jewish people are perfectly worthy and have perfected Creation, or when Creation is at its most desperate and darkest. I somehow believe it will be the latter.
 
Upvote 0

YouAreAwesome

☝✌
Oct 17, 2016
2,181
969
Lismore, Australia
✟102,053.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I didn't say we didn't have the Holy Spirit, we just don't have it in its fullness, and we won't until New Covenant times have reached their fruition when Messiah returns.

Yes humans have free will and even with the Word written on our hearts in the future, we still will. There will always be wrestling among believers until Messiah comes and sets us all straight.

I don't really have the time to watch videos, but I looked up Hans Rosling. Didn't get much about how he believes the world is getting better but frankly, I don't think we human beings have the ability all by ourselves to perfect the world. We can do our part, but Messiah has to do the "heavy lifting."

In Judaism, there's a dual belief that Messiah will come either when the Jewish people are perfectly worthy and have perfected Creation, or when Creation is at its most desperate and darkest. I somehow believe it will be the latter.
Here's the YouTube clip (I couldn't post it earlier, difficult on an Ipad)

I believe we are God's building, His mountain growing which will cover the whole earth. That that the nations will come to Jesus for wisdom and healing. i.e. a victorious eschatology where Jesus wins on earth by covering the entire earth with heaven; that His prayer is answered "Your Kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven".

And I also agree the fullness of His Presence will increase from now until then across the earth; even if it isn't a constant expansion but goes through ebbs and flows with an overall positive expected value.

Why do you talk of the future when talking of the Word written on our hearts? This has already happened at the moment we join with Him spirit to Spirit; He speaks to our hearts His instruction. We have already (past tense) been given the "mind of Christ".
 
Upvote 0

Blade

Veteran
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2002
8,176
4,002
USA
✟654,827.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Law..shows you sin. With out law no sin. Even Jesus said.. if I had not come and spoken to them they would not be guilty of sin. So when talking about the LAW..you do ALL of it 613 or none. You dont just pick the 10 and run with it. You cant since its NOT written. MAN keeps telling you ..you have to!

If you do what JESUS said.. love the lord your God with all your heart soul and mind? Blah blah blah.. ..its the same. Since if you LOVE the people around you.. you never want to take what they have or lie or? Get it? See MAN thinks this is way to easy. It cant be this free..that HAS to be a cost. You HAVE to work at it. Oh sure some will try to get around that but still tack on some kind of work. Yet were talking to different worlds here. They could not expect the world that was not Jewish to have to live by the same kind of things...yet its all from GOD..gets really deep if you think about it. Getting stuck on the LAW or any part of it ..your missing it.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,700
4,686
Hudson
✟351,295.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Law..shows you sin. With out law no sin. Even Jesus said.. if I had not come and spoken to them they would not be guilty of sin. So when talking about the LAW..you do ALL of it 613 or none. You dont just pick the 10 and run with it. You cant since its NOT written. MAN keeps telling you ..you have to!

If you do what JESUS said.. love the lord your God with all your heart soul and mind? Blah blah blah.. ..its the same. Since if you LOVE the people around you.. you never want to take what they have or lie or? Get it? See MAN thinks this is way to easy. It cant be this free..that HAS to be a cost. You HAVE to work at it. Oh sure some will try to get around that but still tack on some kind of work. Yet were talking to different worlds here. They could not expect the world that was not Jewish to have to live by the same kind of things...yet its all from GOD..gets really deep if you think about it. Getting stuck on the LAW or any part of it ..your missing it.

The Bible defines sin as lawlessness (1 John 3:4) and says that without the law we wouldn't even know what sin is (Romans 7:7), so when Jesus came with the message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, he was telling people to respent from their disobedience to the Mosaic law, which means that repenting our disobedience to the Mosaic law is a central part of the Gospel message. God's Word makes it clear that we are not to do what He has revealed to be sin, so you don't need man to tell you need to obey it, and now that what God considers to be sin has been revealed to you, ignorance is no longer an excuse.

Jesus summarized the law as being about how to love God and how to love your neighbor and that all of the other laws hang of those two commands (Matthew 22:36-40), or in other words the other commands are the explanation of how to correctly obey the greatest two commands and that through obeying the other commands we are obeying the greatest two. Jesus also said that he we love him, then we will obey his commands (John 14:15), so obedience to the Mosaic law is how God wants us to demonstrate our love for him, which means that you are incorrectly differentiating between need to love others and needing to obey God's laws.

According to 1 Peter 1:13-16, we are told to have a holy conduct not in order to become like Jews or because we are under the Mosaic Covenant, but because God is holy, which is a reference to Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, so obedience to the Mosaic law is not about identifying with Jews, but about identifying with God. We don't need to obey it in order to become saved, but because we have been saved from lawlessness for that purpose. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by God's grace to do what He has revealed to be Godly, righteous, and good, and being trained to renounce what He has revealed to be ungodly and sinful, which is essentially what the Mosaic law was given to instruct us how to do (Romans 7:7, Romans 7:12). God is gathering for Himself a people who are zealous for doing the good works that He has instructed in His law (Acts 21:20, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).
 
Upvote 0

miamited

Ted
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2010
13,243
6,313
Seneca SC
✟705,807.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Did Jesus tell us to follow the Ten Commandments?

Hi AOTT,

Yes! He just didn't describe it as only ten commandments. What he said was to love God, which covers the first ones, and to love others, which covers all the rest. He then said that if we would but follow those two, we would automatically keep all the rest.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,810
29,476
Pacific Northwest
✟825,705.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Did Jesus tell us to follow the Ten Commandments?

As a faithful Jew He observed all 613 mitzvot (or, at least, all that would have been relevant for Him), not just the Decalogue.

And He says He came not to abolish the Law and the Prophets, but to make full.

It's in this that is crucial, "but to make full" (ἀλλὰ πληρῶσαι); I would argue we should find the proper meaning here in what St. Paul writes in Colossians,

"Therefore do not let anyone condemn you in matters of food and drink or of observing festivals, new moons, or sabbaths. These are only a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ." - Colossians 2:16-17

Also consider Christ's statement in Luke,

"Then he said to them, 'These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you—that everything written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms must be fulfilled.' Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and he said to them, 'Thus it is written, that the Messiah is to suffer and to rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.'" - Luke 24:44-47

Christ did not come to abolish the Law, but to make them full, to bring them to the fullness of their purpose, which is Himself and His work. The Law was never given to any people other than the Jews, as Moses says,

"Moses convened all Israel, and said to them:

Hear, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances that I am addressing to you today; you shall learn them and observe them diligently. The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. Not with our ancestors did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today.
" - Deuteronomy 5:1-3

St. Paul tells us, both in Romans and Galatians, to look back to Abraham, our father in the faith; for Abraham came prior to the giving of the Law, and instead Abraham had faith "and it was accounted to him as righteousness", in this the Apostle speaks of that "righteousness apart from the law, through faith".

Because of this both Jew and Gentile are, in Christ, the children of Abraham because it is Christ who is the Seed of Abraham; the Law was given through Moses to the children of Israel and it and the covenant which God made with them at Mt. Horeb was to point beyond itself, to the Christ who was to come, that is Jesus.

Jesus did tell His fellow Jews to observe the commandments, He would not have given such a command to Gentiles however since Gentiles were outside of the covenant of the Law; a Gentile who became observant of the Law would no longer be a Gentile, but a convert to Judaism.

Thus the question of the relationship between Christians and the Torah must be understood in the context of Christ's fulfillment of those ancient covenant promises by His death and resurrection, and the giving of the Spirit on Pentecost, and the mission and constitution of the Church as the one new people, consisting of both circumcised Jew and uncircumcised Gentile, in Jesus the Messiah.

That's the long answer. The short answer would be "no", that is, no, Jesus did not tell us--Christians--to observe the Torah. And unless one is an observant Jew one has no business observing Torah as Torah isn't meant for you if you're an uncircumcised goy.

What Christ does command, however, is the Great Commandment, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might; and love your neighbor as yourself" This is the heart of God's Law. And the royal law of love is commanded of Christians, both Jew and Gentile.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Andrewofthetribe

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2016
815
256
Oxford
✟32,258.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
As a faithful Jew He observed all 613 mitzvot (or, at least, all that would have been relevant for Him), not just the Decalogue.

And He says He came not to abolish the Law and the Prophets, but to make full.

It's in this that is crucial, "but to make full" (ἀλλὰ πληρῶσαι); I would argue we should find the proper meaning here in what St. Paul writes in Colossians,

"Therefore do not let anyone condemn you in matters of food and drink or of observing festivals, new moons, or sabbaths. These are only a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ." - Colossians 2:16-17

Also consider Christ's statement in Luke,

"Then he said to them, 'These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you—that everything written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms must be fulfilled.' Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and he said to them, 'Thus it is written, that the Messiah is to suffer and to rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.'" - Luke 24:44-47

Christ did not come to abolish the Law, but to make them full, to bring them to the fullness of their purpose, which is Himself and His work. The Law was never given to any people other than the Jews, as Moses says,

"Moses convened all Israel, and said to them:

Hear, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances that I am addressing to you today; you shall learn them and observe them diligently. The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. Not with our ancestors did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today.
" - Deuteronomy 5:1-3

St. Paul tells us, both in Romans and Galatians, to look back to Abraham, our father in the faith; for Abraham came prior to the giving of the Law, and instead Abraham had faith "and it was accounted to him as righteousness", in this the Apostle speaks of that "righteousness apart from the law, through faith".

Because of this both Jew and Gentile are, in Christ, the children of Abraham because it is Christ who is the Seed of Abraham; the Law was given through Moses to the children of Israel and it and the covenant which God made with them at Mt. Horeb was to point beyond itself, to the Christ who was to come, that is Jesus.

Jesus did tell His fellow Jews to observe the commandments, He would not have given such a command to Gentiles however since Gentiles were outside of the covenant of the Law; a Gentile who became observant of the Law would no longer be a Gentile, but a convert to Judaism.

Thus the question of the relationship between Christians and the Torah must be understood in the context of Christ's fulfillment of those ancient covenant promises by His death and resurrection, and the giving of the Spirit on Pentecost, and the mission and constitution of the Church as the one new people, consisting of both circumcised Jew and uncircumcised Gentile, in Jesus the Messiah.

That's the long answer. The short answer would be "no", that is, no, Jesus did not tell us--Christians--to observe the Torah. And unless one is an observant Jew one has no business observing Torah as Torah isn't meant for you if you're an uncircumcised goy.

What Christ does command, however, is the Great Commandment, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might; and love your neighbor as yourself" This is the heart of God's Law. And the royal law of love is commanded of Christians, both Jew and Gentile.

-CryptoLutheran
Hi thanks for your reply. Why would people observe the moon?
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,810
29,476
Pacific Northwest
✟825,705.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Hi thanks for your reply. Why would people observe the moon?

Like many ancient people, including people in the ancient near east, the Hebrews followed a lunar calendar. God appointed certain special occasions to phases of the moon, specifically a new moon. It's not really about the moon, but the moon as a means of time-keeping. The use of the moon for time-keeping is common throughout the world, it's in fact why we have months. Even in English the word "month" has the same Anglo-Saxon root as the word "moon"; and in various cultures months were originally based on the lunar cycle (roughly every 28 days), even when using a solar calendar cultures continued to keep months as a way to help divide the year.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0
Feb 5, 2017
14
1
86
Asia Pacific
✟23,056.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Did Jesus tell us to follow the Ten Commandments?


The Ten commandments are God's law, which God Himself wrote on the stone tablets in Exodus 20...God's law is eternal.
The law of Moses are the 600+ sacrificial, circumcision, food, feast, festival etc laws which ended in Acts 15 with the exception of the 4 mentioned.
Jesus in John 14.15 says if you love me keep my commandments in reference to the ten commandments...
1st John 5.3 says this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and they are not burdensome.
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,627
67
✟86,135.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Why would any minister of any church need to preach a sermon on the importance of obeying the Ten Commandments?

Surely that would be the same as telling someone who knew their twelve times table:

You must remember to follow your twelve times table.

The law on stone/TC got transferred into a law written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer(2cor3:3)

What is in your mind, you in your mind must surely know. What is in your heart, you in your heart want to obey.

Relentlessly preach:

You must obey the TC

and all you do is make sincere christians depressed. They know That already, they dont need ministers constantly reminding them of their imperfections!
Christianity needs to get back to its roots, to a time before the emergence of the scholar and theologian who diluted the true message.
It needs to get back to the message that changed the worst of sinners into the greatest preacher of grace this world has ever seen.
Christianity needs to get back to the core foundation on which it stands:

I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.

If the above was preached half as much as :

You must obey the TC is preached

I'm sure we would have another Pentecost!
 
Upvote 0

fhansen

Oldbie
Sep 3, 2011
16,321
4,086
✟401,404.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Why would any minister of any church need to preach a sermon on the importance of obeying the Ten Commandments?

Surely that would be the same as telling someone who knew their twelve times table:

You must remember to follow your twelve times table.

The law on stone/TC got transferred into a law written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer(2cor3:3)

What is in your mind, you in your mind must surely know. What is in your heart, you in your heart want to obey.

Relentlessly preach:

You must obey the TC

and all you do is make sincere christians depressed. They know That already, they dont need ministers constantly reminding them of their imperfections!
Christianity needs to get back to its roots, to a time before the emergence of the scholar and theologian who diluted the true message.
It needs to get back to the message that changed the worst of sinners into the greatest preacher of grace this world has ever seen.
Christianity needs to get back to the core foundation on which it stands:

I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.

If the above was preached half as much as :

You must obey the TC is preached

I'm sure we would have another Pentecost!
I agree with this in principle. And yet we still need to hear the law, or be reminded of it now and then, due to our human weaknesses, and due to the fact that the law isn't necessarily inscribed or obeyed all at once in us, and due to the fact that we don't always know how to apply it.

Without the teachings of the church, would all spirit-led believers necessarily, automatically, recognize that the command against killing applies to the unborn, for example? Are we not benefited by teachings on human morality, how the command against bearing false witness applies more broadly to lying in general, and how difficult it can be in this world to obey that commandment at times, to always adhere perfectly to the truth? Maybe we need to be challenged in this way at times so we don't become too complacent in our self-assessed state of spiritual maturity. Just a thought.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,700
4,686
Hudson
✟351,295.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
The Ten commandments are God's law, which God Himself wrote on the stone tablets in Exodus 20...God's law is eternal.
The law of Moses are the 600+ sacrificial, circumcision, food, feast, festival etc laws which ended in Acts 15 with the exception of the 4 mentioned.
Jesus in John 14.15 says if you love me keep my commandments in reference to the ten commandments...
1st John 5.3 says this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and they are not burdensome.

The Law of Moses did not originate with him, but rather it originated with God and was instructed by God through Moses as a mediator, so that does not make them any less of God's law. There 1,050 commands in the NT, so to say that we only have to obey four of them is to disregard over 99% of the commands in the NT, including those given by Jesus, so I think it very clearly was never intended to be an exhaustive list. Furthermore, the topic being discussed in Acts 15:1 was not even in regard to whether the Mosaic Law should be obeyed because it does not require all Gentiles to become circumcised and it doesn't even require Jews to become circumcised for the specific purpose of becoming saved, so they discussing a man-made requirement.

According to Isaiah 45:25, all Israel will be saved, so many Jews thought that Gentiles had to become Jews in order to become saved, which meant going through the process of becoming a Jewish proselyte involving circumcision and involving joining the group of people who agreed at Sinai to do everything Moses said. By the 1st century, those who had the power passed down to them to make authoritative interpretations and rulings of the Mosaic Law were referred to as sitting in Moses' seat and this had become a large body of Jewish oral laws, traditions, and fences, which was a heavy burden that the Pharisees were placing on the people (Matthew 23:2-4). In Matthew 15:2-3, Jesus was asked why his disciples broke the traditions of the elders and Jesus responded by asking them why they broke the command of God for the sake of their tradition. According to Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from what God had commanded, so the Pharisees were sinning by adding their own oral laws just as the Jerusalem Council would have needed to repent of their sins if they had subtracted all but four of God's commands. Furthermore, Jesus said that for the sake of their traditions they made void the Word of God (Matthew 15:6), he quoted Isaiah to say that they were worshipping God in vain because they were teaching as doctrines the commands of men (Matthew 15:8-9), and he called them hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God for the sake of their own traditions (Mark 7:6-9). So in Matthew 2-3, Jesus was not criticizing the Pharisees for teaching the people to obey what God had commanded them, but rather for putting their many traditions on the people, so in Acts 15:10, they were simply expressing the same view of Jewish oral laws as Jesus had expressed.

In Deuteronomy 30:11-14 and Romans 10:5-10, it is speaking of the Mosaic Law and saying that what God commanded was not to difficult, so 1 John 5:3 is in agreement that none of the commands given in the Bible are burdensome. God did not free His people out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them back under bondage to the Mosaic Law, but rather it is for freedom that God sets His people free, and the Mosaic Law is a law of liberty (Psalms 119:45, James 1:25), while it is sin in transgression of the Law that puts us in bondage (John 8:34).

Jesus was sinless, which means that he walked in perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law, so if you believe that you practiced what he preached and preached what he practiced, that you could should believe that he taught to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, and as his disciples we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:3-6).
 
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,973
Alabama
✟509,426.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Ever noticed this verse?

For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

Hebrews 7:12

Something to ponder.


IN Context

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

In Context It is talking about the ceremonial law. the priesthood was change from man to Jesus. the ceremonial law was canceled (fulfilled) by the death and resurrection of Jesus
 
Upvote 0