DID JESUS REALLY BREAK ANY OF GOD'S LAW?

[Dave L]

This post only shows you ignored the post above yours. As I was posted above your post the OLD COVENANT was made up of both the 10 Commandments and the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT. Both had a different role in the OLD COVENANT. You mix up your Shadow laws fulfilled in Christ to that which is the ETERNAL law of God and the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4)

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WHAT MADE UP THE OLD COVENANT?

The OLD COVENANT was made up of two sets of LAWS. These included God's LAW (10 Commandments) spoken and written by GOD himself to his people on two tables of stone and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT written and spoken to God's people by MOSES containing the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL laws for forgiveness of sin offerings for the SNACTUARY PRIESTHOOD.

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

and ...

EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 29:21 [21] And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT that are WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

EXODUS 24 [7], And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 29 [21], And the LORD shall separate him to evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the COVENANT THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK OF THE LAW.

DEUTERONOMY 31 [26], Take this BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

2 KINGS 23 [2], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT which was found in the house of the LORD.

2 KINGS 23 [3], And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THIS COVENANT THAT WERE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK. And all the people stood to the covenant.

2 KINGS 23 [21], And the king commanded all the people, saying, KEEP THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD your God, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THIS COVENANT.

2 CHRONICLES 34 [30], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests, and the Levites, and all the people, great and small: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT that was found in the house of the LORD.

2 CHRONICLES 34 [31] And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.

yep its not just the 10 Commandments...

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HEBREWS 9:1 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

EPHESIANS 2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

What laws are written on the heart in the NEW COVENANT promise? It is not the MOSAIC laws for remission of sin...

JEREMIAH [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:[32], NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt ; MY COVENANT WHICH THEY BROKE, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD:[33], But THIS SHALL BE MY COVENANT THAT I SHALL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISREAL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND I WILL WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE; [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

2 CORINTHIANS 3 [2], You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN THE FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART. (see all of 2 COR 3)

God's LAW (10 Commandments) are written on the heart to LOVE through faith (ROMANS 13:8-10)

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CONCLUSION; Jesus did not come to change or destroy GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments). It is through GOD's LAW that we have a KNOLWEDGE of what SIN is. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the books of the law and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE

yep it is the SHADOW laws that are fulfilled in Christ. The OLD COVENANT is made up of God's 10 Commandments and the Shadow laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

You have your shadow laws mixed up with God's eternal LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is if broken. * ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:11; 1 JOHN 3:4

Hope this helps [99]

The New Covenant replaced the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant) and all of their peripheral teachings.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people...

So the new Covenant writes THE LAW in our minds and in our hearts...

 

[expos4ever]

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. He said no such thing. he was not speaking of the kosher laws, but eating with not washed hands.

No. It is clear that Jesus repudiates the idea that any food makes the Jew unclean:

Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

Let's be clear: the Law of Moses does indeed declare some foods unclean. If you want textual evidence, I am more than happy to provide it.

How can one possibly take Jesus seriously here without concluding that He is challenging the food laws from the Law of Moses?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The New Covenant replaced the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant) and all of their peripheral teachings.

How is that? What in your opinion IS the new covenant?

 

[Dave L]

How is that? What in your opinion IS the new covenant?

All that the New Covenant scriptures include.

 

[expos4ever]

I would like to clear something up. The fact that Jesus repudiates the Jews for going beyond the prescriptions of the Law of Moses does not foreclose the possibility that He also argues that the Law of Moses is coming to an end. Many people appear to argue thus:

1. Jesus repudiates adding onto the Law of Moses;
2. Therefore, no matter how explicit Jesus is to the effect that the Law itself is coming to an end, He is simply criticizing those who extend the Law.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No. It is clear that Jesus repudiates the idea that any food makes the Jew unclean:

Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

Let's be clear: the Law of Moses does indeed declare some foods unclean. If you want textual evidence, I am more than happy to provide it.

How can one possibly take Jesus seriously here without concluding that He is challenging the food laws from the Law of Moses?

You do not understand the context. It was regarding eating without washed hands. BTW, the original Greek has no such statement, it was added that is why it is in parentheses.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

All that the New Covenant scriptures include.

That does not answer my question

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The New Covenant replaced the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant) and all of their peripheral teachings.

Indeed, God's LAW (10 Commandments) in the NEW COVENANT are written on the heart to LOVE through FAITH (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10). God's LAW in the NEW COVENANT has the same role that it always had and that is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is if broken...

ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

JAMES 2:11 [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW.

1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

Yep Paul, James and John all agree that if we break ANY of God's Commandments we commit sin in the NEW COVENANT.

You are mixing up the Shdow laws of the Mosaic Book of the OLD COVENANT with God's Eternal law that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is if broken.

Hope this helps. [99 All really have to go now catch up latter]

 

[expos4ever]

Another thing. Yes, the principles that undergird the 10 commandments - no murder, no stealing, no coveting thy neighbour's gear - are arguably eternal. But this does not mean that the Law itself, as a written code, is eternal. We now have the Spirit to guide us - we no longer need a written code.

Paul is quite clear about this at least twice:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the [d]Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Another thing. Yes, the principles that undergird the 10 commandments - no murder, no stealing, no coveting thy neighbour's gear - are arguably eternal. But this does not mean that the Law itself, as a written code, is eternal. We now have the Spirit to guide us - we no longer need a written code.

Paul is quite clear about this at least twice:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the [d]Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

You do not understand the context. Yet The Spirit still upholds The Commandments...otherwise there would be contradiction. The written code is now written in our minds and hearts...

 

[expos4ever]

You do not understand the context. It was regarding eating without washed hands. BTW, the original Greek has no such statement, it was added that is why it is in parentheses.

Let's say that the stuff in parentheses is not right. We still have this:

Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him

This directly contradicts the Law of Moses which most certainly does declare that some foods defile.

As per a recent post of mine, you simply assume that just because Jesus objects to the handwashing "add-on" to the Law, He must therefore be endorsing retention of the Law itself. This is simply not correct logic.

Again, we have a clear, unambiguous challenge to the Law in Jesus' declaration that nothing that goes into your mouth defiles you.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Here is what the Apostle John wrote on the subject. Scripture below.

Just to be clear, I don't think this meant Jesus was sinning.
I think he was setting the law aside.

John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 9:16
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.” But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

But, you are taking the words of man as if they are Truth. Can the pharisees who were clearly not connected to God make a judgment about the One who was? In both cases, they were saying Jesus was a sinner for "breaking the sabbath" in conjunction with him healing someone on the sabbath. They were following the "letter of the law," while He was following the "intent of the law." The intent of the law was never to have someone suffer, because the day set apart for God could not be used by God to heal and set people free. Of any day, that seems like the most appropriate day for God to be glorified for what He did for damaged people.

Just to be clear, Jesus The Christ didn't sin. I thank God for that. Otherwise, I would still be dead in my trespasses and sins, instead of alive to God!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Let's say that the stuff in parentheses is not right. We still have this:

Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him

This directly contradicts the Law of Moses which most certainly does declare that some foods defile.

As per a recent post of mine, you simply assume that just because Jesus objects to the handwashing "add-on" to the Law, He must therefore be endorsing retention of the Law itself. This is simply not correct logic.

Again, we have a clear, unambiguous challenge to the Law in Jesus' declaration that nothing that goes into your mouth defiles you.

Again, you do NOT understand the context and are adding in your own interpretation. Read the entire section.

 

[expos4ever]

Just to be clear, Jesus The Christ didn't sin. I thank God for that. Otherwise, I would still be dead in my trespasses and sins, instead of alive to God!

But let's be equally clear that as "God in the flesh", Jesus has the authority to declare that the time of the Law of Moses is coming to an end. And through various things He both did and said, and through what Paul has to tell us, I think it is clear that this is precisely what Jesus does.

Through staged public "breakings" of the Law, Jesus effectively declares that its time was coming to an end.

God was about to do something new.

 

[expos4ever]

Again, you do NOT understand the context and are adding in your own interpretation. Read the entire section.

You need to make your case. And you have a huge challenge since Jesus clearly declares that nothing that enters a man defiles him.

How the fact that Jesus also objects to the add-on of handwashing does not cause these words to disappear from the pages of Scripture!

As I have stated, there is nothing contradictory about Jesus:

1. Objecting to the fact that Jews have added on to the Law; and

2. Declaring that the time of the Law is coming to an end.

Again, you face an enormous challenge - you need to make the case that, based on the context, Jesus does not mean what He says when He says that nothing that enters a man defiles him. I wish you luck in making your case based on context - I see no remotely plausible argument available to you.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

But let's be equally clear that as "God in the flesh", Jesus has the authority to declare that the time of the Law of Moses is coming to an end. And through various things He both did and said, and through what Paul has to tell us, I think it is clear that this is precisely what Jesus does.

Through staged public "breakings" of the Law, Jesus effectively declares that its time was coming to an end.

God was about to do something new.

Was it really new or was it something well-prophesied and actually prepared before the foundation of the world--and therefore pre-dating The Law?

Jesus didn't break the Law. He certainly allowed others to, in order to make His points; but He never broke any law. That was imperative to fulfill all righteousness.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Let's say that the stuff in parentheses is not right. We still have this:

Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him

This directly contradicts the Law of Moses which most certainly does declare that some foods defile.

Again, we have a clear, unambiguous challenge to the Law in Jesus' declaration that nothing that goes into your mouth defiles you.

When He had called all the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear Me, everyone, and understand: There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!”

When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. So He said to them, "Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated. And He said “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You need to make your case. And you have a huge challenge since Jesus clearly declares that nothing that enters a man defiles him.

How the fact that Jesus also objects to the add-on of handwashing does not cause these words to disappear from the pages of Scripture!

As I have stated, there is nothing contradictory about Jesus:

1. Objecting to the fact that Jews have added on to the Law; and

2. Declaring that the time of the Law is coming to an end.

Again, you face an enormous challenge - you need to make the case that, based on the context, Jesus does not mean what He says when He says that nothing that enters a man defiles him. I wish you luck in making your case based on context - I see no remotely plausible argument available to you.

No, it is up to you to understand the context it is placed in. Just because you want or need it to say something it does not, does not mean what you think it says is true. Yeshua NEVER mentions kosher or non-kosher food. The whole verse is about eating without washing hands first...because THAT and ONLY THAT was what He was accused of. Eating with unwashed hands does not defile the heart because the food goes into the stomach and is eliminated and does not affect the heart of a man.

 

[messianist]

How do you abolish a Prophet? (or a Psalm)

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

I gave the scriptures you can argue with the Almighty if you don't agree with them