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Featured DID JESUS REALLY BREAK ANY OF GOD'S LAW?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by LoveGodsWord, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the interpretation of the vision was about Gentiles. If all we had was this vision to go on, you would have a point. But, there is more. We have Paul saying about foods that he was persuaded by Jesus that nothing was unclean of itself. Romans 14:14
    Then in 1 Timothy 4:4
    For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
    Then Colossians 2:16
    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

    About the Sabbath, we are not to let others judge us regarding any day. We don't have to esteem one day above another.

    You say I am taking Hebrews 4 out of context. Show me how I did so?
    Show me how the promised land and the 7th day weren't referring to His rest?
     
  2. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    I made my point. We were discussing Peters vision. I am not going to sit here and wait until you find another verse somewhere and take it out of context and expect me to explain it to you again while you argue with me. Play with someone else...
    Shalom
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello Doug,

    You mix up your Shadow laws from the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) written with the finger of God, that give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL.

    Besides God's 4th Commandment which is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which was written on stone, there were also "SPECIAL" ANNUAL CEREMONIAL Sabbath connected to the annual Jewish festivals in the OLD COVENANT written in the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE law.

    These ceremonial Sabbath were not God's 4th Commandment of the 10 Commandments but were connected to annual festivals and could fall on ANY DAY of the week depending on the yearly cycle (please read LEVITICUS 23;24-39).

    These ceremonial "SPECIAL" Sabbath were connected to..

    * Annual festival of The blowing of trumpet (Leviticus 23:24)
    * Annual Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:32)
    * Annual Feast of tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39)

    These "SPECIAL" Sabbath could fall on any day and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

    You have your Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT mixed up with God's ETERNAL LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of sin (Romans 3:20).

    In the days of JESUS and PAUL the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures were the bible. Do you know what scriptures that PAUL is referencing in COLOSSIANS 2 in the OLD TESTAMENT?

    If your interested to see what PAUL is talking about in COLOSSIANS 2 please read the 6x Part scripture link below.

    DETAILED SCRIPTURE SUPPORT COLOSSIANS 2 LINKING THE NEW TESTAMENT TO OLD

    You mix up the Shadow laws from the book of Moses with God's LAW written on stone.

    If you are quoting Romans 14 were does it say in this chapter that it is talking about God's commandments or where does it talk about God's Sabbath? Are you reading something into scripture here that it does not say? Romans 14 is talking about eating and fasting connected to days that some men esteem over others. It is not talking about what God esteems or God's commandments.

    Sorry I know this post is not directed at me but with God's help I am happy to share God's WORD with you if you have some time to discuss HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4?


    HEBREWS 4
    [1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    [2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
    5,
    And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

    NOTE
    : CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD and enter into that rest.

    [6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    [7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    [8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    [9], There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.

    Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

    ................

    INTERLINEAR HEBREWS 4:9


    αρα απολειπεται σαββατισμος τω λαω του θεου
    So then there remains a Sabbath rest to the people - of God

    ................

    Parallel translations of HEBREWS 4:9

    New International Version
    There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

    English Standard Version
    So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

    Berean Study Bible
    So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    Berean Literal Bible
    So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    New American Standard Bible
    So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    Christian Standard Bible
    Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

    International Standard Version
    There remains, therefore, a Sabbath rest for the people of God to keep,

    NET Bible
    Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.

    New Heart English Bible
    There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

    New American Standard 1977
    There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    American Standard Version
    There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

    Darby Bible Translation
    There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.

    English Revised Version
    There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

    Weymouth New Testament
    It follows that there still remains a sabbath rest for the people of God.

    World English Bible
    There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    Young's Literal Translation
    there doth remain, then, a Sabbatic rest to the people of God,

    ................

    continuing...

    [10], For he that is entered into his rest (v9 SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    [11], Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (Heb 3).

    Yep lots of scripture here showing that if you do not enter into God's Gospel rest you cannot enter his SABBATH REST. v 1-4 is the context of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH confirmed in v9-11

    Hebrews 3-4 is talking about the Gospel and the keeping of God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD.

    "There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God. Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief" v9-11.

    HEBREWS 4 supports the keeping of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH by believing and following the Word of God.

    ...............

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    Hope this helps Doug :wave:
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
  4. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    I didn't mix anything up. It is you who have separated what God has put together. You have shown over and over how the 10 Commandments and the laws concerning feasts make up the Old Covenant. Now when it doesn't suit you you want to separate them.
    Leviticus 23 lists the feasts that were to be kept. And the very first one is the weekly Sabbath.


    Leviticus 23 most likely.
    Looking at Colossians 2:16 we see 4 things we are not to let others judge us on.
    Food and drink. Dietary laws
    Holy days. Yearly feasts that could happen on any day of the week.
    New moons.
    Sabbaths. The only thing left is the weekly Sabbath.

    No, I didn't. It is all part of the Old Covenant which we were unable to keep.
    Esteeming one day above another.


    God spoke of the 7th day in this way.
    Way 1 God rested on the 7th day.
    Way 2 If they shall enter my rest.

    We see in Hebrews 3 His rest was the Promised land.
    Promised land = 7th day Sabbath. Both of these are His rest.
    We enter His rest through faith in Christ.
    The weekly Sabbath was a shadow pointing to Christ.

    Just as under the Old Covenant they were required to observe the dietary and feast laws which were shadows, so they were required to observe the weekly Sabbath.
    Just as we are not required to observe the dietary or feast laws, neither are we required to observe the weekly Sabbath.
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello Doug,

    There is no reason to be upset. Everyone makes mistakes. You have been shown yours through the Word of God. It is up to you now not to harden your heart. Be like the faithful Bareans and study the scriptures provided to see if these things are so.
    Not at all Doug, let's see why. It is God that has separated the 10 Commandments from the Shaodw laws from the Mosaic Book of the law. Both had a different purpose under God's plan of salvation. Let's have a look at the scriptures and what God's WORD says...

    In the OLD COVENANT God's LAW (10 Commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUENSESS (Romans 3:20; 7:7; James 2:10-11; Pslams 119:172), while the Mosaic shadow laws for remission of sin were how God's poeple in the OLD COVENANT had forgiveness for their sins if God's laws were broken. These were prophetic shadows in nature pointing to Jesus and Gods plan of salvation. It is God who made a distingtion and separated these laws not me. Let's look at a few scriptures showing this. I will look at condensing my post to reduce the length and post scripture which you can rollover to check instead of posting the full text out to make it easier.

    God's eternal law (10 Commandments) was spoken and written by GOD himself to his people on two tables of stone. (Exodus 20:1-17; 32:16; 32:28) The 10 Commandments were not made by Moses. They were spoken and made by God alone on two tables of stone and nothing was to be added to them (Deuteronomy 4:1-2). God commanded Moses to keep the Tables of Stone separated from the Mosaic book of the law and both were to be housed in the ARK of the Covenant. The 10 Commandments were to be put inside the Ark of the covenant while the Mosaic book of shadow laws were to be put beside the Ark of the covenant (Deuteronomy 10:5; Deuteronomy 31:24-26). That is why God's LAW is referred to in the scriptures as God's LAW or the 10 commandments and not the 613. (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 10:4).

    So no Doug it is God that makes a distinction between the 10 commandments and the shadow laws from the Book of the law. Why the distingtion? One set of laws were to fade away with the passing of time as they were prophetic pointing to Jesus and God's plan of salvation (Hebrews 10:1). While the other is God's eternal law that give us a KNOWLEDGE of sin (Romans 3:20; 7:7; James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4).

    Doug the Annual Jewish feasts of LEVITICUS 23 list the annual festivals of God's people under the OLD COVENANT.

    The yearly (not weekly) Sabbath from the Mosaic book of the law were to be days of "HOLY CONVOCATION" That is in Hebrew מקרא; miqrâ' means a calling out for a public meeting or gathering and public assemby].

    These were for the annual festivals not the normal weekly Sabbath of Gods 4th commandment. Within these ANNUAL festivals or public meetings there were also "SPECIAL" ceremonial SABBATHS" that were not connected to God's 4th commandment or SEVENTH DAY Sabbath. These Sabbath as shown through scripture earlier were connected to different feast days and could fall on ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

    These ceremonial "SPECIAL" Sabbath were connected to the Annual festival of The blowing of trumpet (Leviticus 23:24); the Annual Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:32) and the Annual Feast of tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39).

    So yes you are correct in one sense. The topic of Leviticus 23 is that of the Festivals in relation the annual feasts and days of HOLY CONVOCATION (public meeting or gathering and public assemby) some of these annual festival went for longer then 7 days and could start on any day of the week depending on the luna and yearly cycles. When an annual feast day would fall on the normal weekly Sabbath of God's 4th Commandment it was called a "HIGH SABBATH" (John 19:31) see also wiki linked

    The listing of God's 4th Commandment is there because during the annual festivals they would be included as being every SEVENTH DAY they would be included in the timings within the annual feasts.

    There was seven ANNUAL festivals in total. The spring feastivals included; Passover (Pesach) Leviticus 23:5; Unleavened bread (Chag HaMotzi) Leviticus 23:6; Feast of first fruits (Reshit Katzir) Leviticus 23:11 and Pentecost (Shavu'ot) Leviticus 23:16. All of these are shadow feastivals being fulfilled in Christ and point to God's plan of salvation which are fulfilled in Christ. (1 Corinthians 5:7-8; 1 Corinthians 15:20; James 1:18; Revelations 14:4; Romans 8:23; Acts 2:1-4)

    The fall feastivals included the ANNUAL "SPECIAL" SABBATH; The ANNUAL Fall festivals included; The Feast of trumpets (Yom Teru'ah) Leviticus 25:24; Atonement (Yom Kippur) Leviticus 23:27-32 and the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) Leviticus 23:34-39.

    So as you can see through the scripture above that ANNUAL FESTIVALS AND CEREMONIAL SABBATH are the Shadow laws NOT God's 4th Commandment from God's ETERNAL LAW which is a WEEKLY SABBATH and separate from the purpose of the ANNUAL CEREMONIAL days of HOLY CONVOCATION (Public meeting) which are all Shadows pointing to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

    In the days of Jesus and the Apostles the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures were the bible. PAUL speaking in Colossians 2 is referring back to scriptures in the OLD TESTAMENT this is the subject matter of Colossians 2 which are the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the Covenant.

    COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [GREEK is festival], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAY(S) <plural>:

    EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATH(S), in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    HOSEA 2:11 [11], I WILL STOP HER CELEBRATIONS: her (2) YEARLY FESTIVALS, her (3) New Moons, her (4) Sabbaths and all her (2) APPOINTED FESTIVALS.

    All the above written OLD TESTAMENT scriptures are near word for word in Colossians 2:16-17 are connected to the ANNUAL FESTIVALS which were shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the law which were to come to an end.

    The scriptures, have the same exact order as Col 2{16}, meat, drink, holy days (feast days), new moons, Sabbath(s). No doubt what so ever these 2 scriptures are speaking of the same thing. See how that on those days there was a sin offering made. The blood of Christ is now that offering. Col.2 and Ezekiel 45 are simply speaking of the meat and drink offerings which were written in the Mosaic law contained within the ordinances which were to take place on Gods annual festivals, new moons and His annual ceremonial Sabbath days and Holy convocations (Leviticus 23) These were to come to an end (Hosea 2:11).

    The chapter subject matter of COLOSSIANS 2 is the shadow laws of the OLD COVENANT pointing to Christ in the NEW COVENANT. v11. Shadows of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing to CIRCUMCISION of the HEART MADE WITHOUT HANDS by the CIRCUMCISION of Christ. These were fortold in the OLD COVENANT scriptures (Deuteronomy 30:6; Jeremiah 4:4; Deuteronomy 10:16; Romans 2:25-29; 1 Corinthians 7:19). If your interested there is a detailed 6x part scripture study liking the OLD and NEW Testament scriptures of Colossians 2 in the linked post below.

    DETAILED SCRIPTURE SUPPORT COL 2 HERE


    Doug you did not answer the question I asked you. Where in Romans 14 does it talk about God's 4th Commandment Sabbath? If you are quoting Romans 14 were does it say in this chapter that it is talking about God's commandments or where does it talk about God's Sabbath? Are you reading something into scripture here that it does not say? Romans 14 is talking about eating and fasting connected to days that some men esteem over others. It is not talking about what God esteems or God's commandments.

    Doug God's WORD defines God's REST here..

    WHAT IS GOD'S REST?

    HEBREWS 4
    [1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    [2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
    5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

    NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD and enter into that rest.

    Where is the scripture that says the Promised land is God's REST? Hebrews 4:1-4 says God's REST is the SEVENTH DAY of creation [4th Commandment SABBATH].

    Well that has no truth in it Doug. You are mixed up with your ceremonial Shadow laws that point to Christ and God's plan of salvation from the Mosaic book of the Covenant as shown in all the scriptures provided above.

    Perhaps if you honestly consider this question and try to answer it maybe it may help the conversation? All the Shadow laws were from the MOSAIC Book of the covenant and were propheitc pointing to an unfinished work in God's plan of salvation to save mankind from sin.

    Please consider this next questions carefully.

    1. How can God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH be a SHADOW of anything, when it was made as part of a FINISHED WORK at the end of Creation?

    2. How can God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH be a SHADOW law when there was NO SIN and God's plan of salvation was not given to mankind?

    Scriputre support below...

    GENESIS 2:1-3
    [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
    [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and SANCTIFIED IT <the 7th day>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

    KEY POINTS

    v1 God completed creation in 6 days and RESTED on the 7TH DAY
    v2 God RESTED on the 7TH DAY
    v3 God SET APART the 7TH DAY and made THE 7TH DAY a HOLY DAY
    v2 The 7TH DAY is part of the FINISHED WORK of the CREATION WEEK
    3 Sin had not entered the world and God's Shadow laws not given. (Genesis 3)

    ...............

    Doug this is only sent as a help for you. I pray that you will consider the scriptures provided to help you.

    May God bless you as you seek him through his Word :wave:
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
  6. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    I made no mistakes at all. I am not upset in the least bit. Actually I have had a few chuckles.
    I have studied the Scriptures with an open mind.

    God's eternal law was not written on stone.
    God's eternal law is not a ministry of death and condemnation.
    God's eternal law is the law of the Spirit of life.
    Psalms 19:7 is clear, His Torah gives life. But the 10 Commandments cannot give life.
    If they could, righteousness would have been by the 10 Commandments.

    Leviticus 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
    23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

    The very first feast listed in Lev 23 is the weekly Sabbath.
    So you can't separate the weekly Sabbath from the rest of the Sabbaths.
    God was very concerned the Israelites keep all of His appointed Sabbaths.
    They went into captivity for 70 years so the land could enjoy her Sabbaths.
    God did not elevate the weekly Sabbath over the others by continuing only the weekly Sabbath and discontinuing the others. Either all Sabbaths must be observed or none of them are in effect.

    I saw no such thing. God lists the weekly Sabbath as one of His appointments in Lev 23.

    Are you seriously going to tell me that "esteeming one day above another" is not what you are doing with observing the weekly Sabbath?
    Are you saying Paul was only referencing the other 6 days? And the 7th day was not counted in the week?

    And the rest is in Christ, not a day of the week. Matthew 11:28-30
    We enter into Christ through belief.
    Anybody can observe a day, the Pharisees did it. Unbelieving Jews do it to this day.
     
  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well Doug what can I say further? You have to ignore a lot of scripture from the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT to post what you have posted above. If you want me to show the scriptures for this claim, let me know and I will post God's Word to show why?

    I do not think it will help though because you have chosen to ignore God's WORD in the posts sent you already that disagree with you and I doubt that you have seriously read them and considered them.

    You are free to believe as you wish my friend. Your salvation is between you and God. I do not judge you. It is God's WORD that will judge us all come judgement day * JOHN 12:47-48.

    We will have to agree to disagree and remain friend until that great day.

    May God help you. :wave:
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  8. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    We should follow the Word of God.

    I don't disagree with the Scripture you posted, I disagree with your interpretation.
    You and I have a fundamental disagreement on Hebrews 4.
    You believe it is about a specific day.
    I believe it is about trusting Christ and resting in Him.
     
  9. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    What difference does it really make to you?

    Are you going to stop following Jesus one way or the other and become a pagan or an atheist?

    What are you going to do differently, whether the answer is yes or no?

    If not, then it makes no difference, and a difference that makes no difference is no difference.
     
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well that is not true. I believe HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 is a warning to us today that only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into the Gospel rest and it is only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD that enter into God's SABBATH rest. This is what the scriptures teach. No one is trusting or resting in Christ if they are not believing and following his WORD and breaking his commandments. This is what HEBREWS 3 teaches.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  11. expos4ever

    expos4ever Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know what you are asking. My point is that the Matthew 5 text does not require us to conclude that the Law is still in force. And there are important theological consequences re getting this right.
     
  12. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    That's what I was asking: Are the "important theological consequences" significant enough to take out of Jesus' hand any soul that the Father had promised Him?

    My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
     
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