Did Jesus claim Divinity?

[Gary51]

Jesus did not claim to be God. It is important to study and know the conventions of the time in which the scriptures were written and the events happened.

Thomas's story ought to be read in conjunction with Ps 82. It was convention to use god as a term of respect for those in authority. This was a term used for the judges as well.

Grabbing a concordance and interlinear bible, it is apparent that the god used in the passage with Thomas is not the same as God used in most other occasions.

So, why did Thomas make the statement that he did? 'My Lord and my god.' The first part is straightforward. This is acknowlegement to him being the Son of God, the Messiah. (Also refer to Ps with David writing 'The LORD said to my Lord.').

Next part then. Why then say, 'and my god.'? As mentioned earlier, the term 'god', was once used as a title. The meaning of words can change over time, for a more recent difference think of the the word 'gay'. 30 years ago if someone used gay you would think of the use as a descriptor for happy and cheerful. Today, the use of that word has the immediate thought of homosexuality. That is a change in 30 short years.

So, when Thomas refers to Jesus as 'his god' it is a title of reverence. What is this in relation to? Christ being the King of the Jews.

Did Jesus claim divinity? Not at all. He acted with the authority of God, as His agent on Earth. Through this authority, he was able to heal the sick, forgive sin and command nature. Jesus was a man, with God as his father. To paint Jesus as divine cheapens what was achieved during his life and flies in the face of biblical teaching.

I'm waiting for someone to answer my point, but so far no one has... Maybe they can't. Because it would be a simple matter for me to prove that the Apostles did not believe Jesus was God... no matter how they interpret what Thomas said.

 

[Breckmin]

Jesus being the Son of God is not in question here...

But Jesus being God the Son is!

Gary51,
Let's get to the heart of the issue here. What exactly is your objection
to Jesus Christ being the same God as God the Father?

Whether this is a Theophany of pre-incarnate Deity which was a glorified
manifestation from the Father God Who was born in Bethlehem, or whether
He proceeded from the Father at birth as the only Man that God became,
what is the objection? Would you at least admit that "only begotten
Son" means that He is "unique" and that we are adopted sons/children
whereas Jesus is the Only legitimate Son? Do you accept the Virgin
birth for instance? What is the difference to you between "God the Son"
and "Son of God?" Do they not both indicate Deity?

How can Jesus pay for your sin and be a Perfect Sacrifice if He is not
"good?" and yet we know that "there is none good but God?" Do you
believe that the only way we obtain salvation is by "faith in the Perfect
Sacrifice of Jesus??(His death on the Cross?)

Or is there more to somehow "add" to the Cross? What is the objection
to God becoming a Man and dying in our place and showing us how much
He LOVES us?

M

 

[Breckmin]

Did all the other Aposles believe that He was God too?

Does the answer to this question change whether or not Jesus WAS uniquely
God in human flesh?

Did the Apostles who wrote scripture like John and Paul believe He was
uniquely God?

I believe that this issue is really "Is it logical for Him to have been the
Only Time that God became a Man?"

Who should be King of Israel except God Himself? Who is Savior? What
does Isaiah 43:11 say? Is there any Savior except God?

M

 

[scriptures]

Gary51,
Let's get to the heart of the issue here. What exactly is your objection
to Jesus Christ being the same God as God the Father?

Whether this is a Theophany of pre-incarnate Deity which was a glorified
manifestation from the Father God Who was born in Bethlehem, or whether
He proceeded from the Father at birth as the only Man that God became,
what is the objection? Would you at least admit that "only begotten
Son" means that He is "unique" and that we are adopted sons/children
whereas Jesus is the Only legitimate Son? Do you accept the Virgin
birth for instance? What is the difference to you between "God the Son"
and "Son of God?" Do they not both indicate Deity?

How can Jesus pay for your sin and be a Perfect Sacrifice if He is not
"good?" and yet we know that "there is none good but God?" Do you
believe that the only way we obtain salvation is by "faith in the Perfect
Sacrifice of Jesus??(His death on the Cross?)

Or is there more to somehow "add" to the Cross? What is the objection
to God becoming a Man and dying in our place and showing us how much
He LOVES us?

M

I object to anything unbiblical.....

 

[Zebra1552]

I'm waiting for someone to answer my point, but so far no one has... Maybe they can't. Because it would be a simple matter for me to prove that the Apostles did not believe Jesus was God... no matter how they interpret what Thomas said.

We've answered you several times in several different ways, and oddly enough you've dismissed it every single time as 'just opinion'. Why would we want to answer you when you just dismiss it?

 

[Gary51]

Does the answer to this question change whether or not Jesus WAS uniquely
God in human flesh?

Did the Apostles who wrote scripture like John and Paul believe He was
uniquely God?

I believe that this issue is really "Is it logical for Him to have been the
Only Time that God became a Man?"

Who should be King of Israel except God Himself? Who is Savior? What
does Isaiah 43:11 say? Is there any Savior except God?

M

No answer here!

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

 

[Zebra1552]

No answer here!

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

We already gave you verses from John.

 

[average650]

No answer here!

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

As already stated, why is john 1:1 not enough?

It clearly says "the Word was God"

and the Word is clearly Jesus, as the verses after 1 through 18 show, especially verse 14, "The Word became flesh".

and john 10:30 posted above. How do you get around these?

These versus say that Jesus is God. What more could you want?

 

[Hentenza]

Mod Hat On
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Thread moved to UT from CA.​

 

[Adoniram]

I haven't read through all the posts, 81 pages of them, so I don't know whether anyone has pointed out that Jesus said "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30) And in John 12:44-45 he says "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me."

I don't think Jesus can state any clearer that he is God.

 

[Breckmin]

No answer here!

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Are you familiar with koine Greek and the different nouns like theos, theon,
theo which are used in relation to Jesus of Nazareth? The evidence is
pretty conclusive in the way in which they couple Jesus with God in many
opening statements.

Also, have you considered Isaiah 43:11 and whether or not Jesus was
the Savior??

It is a simple deduction when you consider the text. Isaiah 9:6,
Micah 5:2, and other passages make the point of Divinity in relationship
to the Messiah who would come.

The Jews missed this. (well, some/many of the Jews)

M

 

[Gary51]

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

 

[Quaero]

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

• John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

• John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

• John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."

• John 8:24 - "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."

• John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

• Exodus 3:14 - "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"

• John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.

• John 20:28 - "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

• Col. 2:9 - "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

• Heb. 1:8 - "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."

 

[Secundulus]

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

"Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" (John 14:8-9, NASB95)

 

[Albion]

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

Well, I thought that the question--looking at the thread's title--concerned Jesus' own claims about himself. If that is the case, you remember that the Jews who heard him describe his own identity then accused him of blasphemy. Wouldn't that answer the question in the affirmative?

 

[Gary51]

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

 

[Albion]

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

Gary, either you check in here periodically and post that you haven't read any such posts without reading any of those that have answered you in the meantime, or you are determined to say that there are not any such verses even when you read them.

How about this...

You have been given quite a lot that is specific and shows Christ to have claimed divinity for himself...and also quite a lot that answers your revised question about Apostles believing him to be God. Why don't you explain to us what in those verses you feel does NOT, after all, indicate a belief in Jesus as God?

 

[k2svpete]

And those who claim tha Jesus' did claim divinity equally need to read posts, especially when they relate to scriptures that are rolled out continuously, and that have already been addressed.

Quaero has listed quite a few there, several of which have already been addressed. What is ironic is the quote from Colossians demonstrates the point that Jesus was not divine but had the fullness of God dwelling in him, as a man. Quite a clear distinction.

 

[Gary51]

And those who claim tha Jesus' did claim divinity equally need to read posts, especially when they relate to scriptures that are rolled out continuously, and that have already been addressed.

Quaero has listed quite a few there, several of which have already been addressed. What is ironic is the quote from Colossians demonstrates the point that Jesus was not divine but had the fullness of God dwelling in him, as a man. Quite a clear distinction.

 

[Quaero]

And those who claim tha Jesus' did claim divinity equally need to read posts, especially when they relate to scriptures that are rolled out continuously, and that have already been addressed.

Quaero has listed quite a few there, several of which have already been addressed. What is ironic is the quote from Colossians demonstrates the point that Jesus was not divine but had the fullness of God dwelling in him, as a man. Quite a clear distinction.

I interpreted it as showing the duality of Jesus - fully man and fully God. Dont forget is says the fullness of Deity showing his role as the incarnation, not just some dude who was on good terms with God.