Did Jesuits help form the Freemason Scottish Rite?

[DrFate]

Jesuits may have had a hand in the formation of the Freemason Scottish Rite?
In Paris in the year 1758 The "Grand Council of Emperors of the East and West" organized a "Rite of Perfection," consisting of 25 degrees, the highest being the "Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret." Many British expatriates, who were Jacobites and living in France at the time, took an active part in creating the rite and saw in its symbolism their political aspirations of a return of the Stuart kings to the thrones of England and Scotland. Because of its Catholic sympathies, it has been suggested that the Jesuits at the college of Clermont also had a hand in the formation of the Rite.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/s/sc/scottish_rite.htm

 

[Vaneeza Malkah]

The freemasons started from the knights of templar (crusaiders) and another group called the stonemasons. I think it was around 1100 AD, but not sure about the timeline much. You can check on wilkipedia.

I think you're making a statement more than posing a question though. Interesting topic though. Yes I think that the freeasons were connected with the Jesuits somehow and I heard it before somewhere else (didn't look into it that much though). Know some modern day freemasons? George Bush and Bill Clinton have not denied being members of the secret society when questioned about it.

 

[Grey Eminence]

Masonry's origins are tied to late 16th century Scotland. In Scotland this was a period of considerable development under James VI and and still in the developmental phase of the Scottish Reformed Church. In terms of structure the Masons most closely resemble the devotional guilds that were a part of northern Europe until the reformation led to the destruction of the lot of them.

Masonry as such did not represent anything radically new. But instead represented a variation on a widely popular pre-reformation tradition.

While Masonry has been very good at creating a rich tapestry for themselves they are certainly not a Jesuit conspiracy or anything of a similar sort.

 

[DrFate]

Masonry's origins are tied to late 16th century Scotland. In Scotland this was a period of considerable development under James VI and and still in the developmental phase of the Scottish Reformed Church. In terms of structure the Masons most closely resemble the devotional guilds that were a part of northern Europe until the reformation led to the destruction of the lot of them.

Masonry as such did not represent anything radically new. But instead represented a variation on a widely popular pre-reformation tradition.

While Masonry has been very good at creating a rich tapestry for themselves they are certainly not a Jesuit conspiracy or anything of a similar sort.

Wheels within wheels can be an interesting design. Thank you for the historical information.

Re Bill And George ahhh better left unsaid.

 

[amadeus72]

Jesuits may have had a hand in the formation of the Freemason Scottish Rite?

Sort of, but against their will. The Jesuits in France were opposed to Freemasonry. The Masonic organization at the time was primarily made up of Protestants, Deists, and Jews, all of whom were at least nominally anti-Catholic at that period.

The Jesuits attempted to establish quasi-Masonic bodies in competition with orthodox Masonry in order to promote Catholicism. Although the history is sort of murky, it appears that some of the Masons in France, especially ones with Rosicrucian leanings or ties, decided to "one-up" the Jesuits by establishing the Rite of Perfection to compete with the Jesuit Chapter of Clermont.

Eventually, most of these organizations went dormant and existed on paper only. In the 1790's, they came into the hands of 11 York Rite Masons in Charleston, South Carolina, USA. These 11 decided to form a new Masonic Rite by combining the 25 degrees of the Rite of Perfection with 8 degrees taken from the French Philosophical Rite. In 1801, these 11 created the first "Supreme Council of the Thirty-third Degree of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Masonry", calling it "Scottish" because of the legend, reinacted in the degree ceremonies, of fugitive Knights Templar coming to the aid of Robert the Bruce against the British during the Battle of Bannockburn.

Of the eleven Masons who founded the Scottish Rite, 5 were Jewish, 2 Episcopalians, 1 Presbyterian, 2 Baptists, and 1 Unitarian. There were no Roman Catholics or Jesuits among the founders.

 

[amadeus72]

Masonry's origins are tied to late 16th century Scotland

Actually, most historians tie Masonry's origins to England around the 11th century. The oldest Masonic document known is the Regius Manuscript, which is dated circa 1390 A.D., but speaks of Masonic gatherings in York as early as the tenth century.

 

[amadeus72]

Know some modern day freemasons? George Bush and Bill Clinton have not denied being members of the secret society when questioned about it.

16 Presidents of the United States have been Masons, but neither Clinton nor Bush are among them.

Clinton's father was a Mason, and as a young teen he joined the DeMolay Society, a Masonic-related organization for boys. In his autobiography "My Life", Clinton expressed his admiration of the DeMolay Society and spoke with fondness of his memories of it, but did not pursue an interest in Masonry as an adult.

Both the current President George Bush and his father, former President Bush, are members of Skull and Bones, a seniors fraternity at Yale University. Some folks, especially conspiracy theorists, have confused Skull and bones with Masonry, but they are two separate fraternities.

The last US President who was a mason was Gerald R. Ford. The last Mason who received the presidential nomination from a major political party was Sen. Bob Dole, and the last Mason who actually ran for President is Rev. Al Sharpton.

 

[DrFate]

Actually, most historians tie Masonry's origins to England around the 11th century. The oldest Masonic document known is the Regius Manuscript, which is dated circa 1390 A.D., but speaks of Masonic gatherings in York as early as the tenth century.

That is Operative Masonry rather than Speculative Masonry isn't it?

 

[DrFate]

Facinating! Thanks

 

[amadeus72]

That is Operative Masonry rather than Speculative Masonry isn't it?

Both.

Before the discovery of the manuscript, it was assumed that speculative Masonry grew out of operative during the Enlightenment. The Regius was written as a code for the operatives, but interestingly also refers to many of the legends of Speculative Masonry including Pythagoras, Solomon's Temple, etc.

 

[Abongil]

The freemasons started from the knights of templar (crusaiders) and another group called the stonemasons. I think it was around 1100 AD, but not sure about the timeline much. You can check on wilkipedia.

I think you're making a statement more than posing a question though. Interesting topic though. Yes I think that the freeasons were connected with the Jesuits somehow and I heard it before somewhere else (didn't look into it that much though). Know some modern day freemasons? George Bush and Bill Clinton have not denied being members of the secret society when questioned about it.

We have no link to the Knights Templar. Neither George Bush, nor Bill Clinton are Freemasons, but Bill Clinton was a member of the Order of DeMolay when he was younger. We are no longer a secret society, contrary to popular belief.

 

[Abongil]

Actually, most historians tie Masonry's origins to England around the 11th century. The oldest Masonic document known is the Regius Manuscript, which is dated circa 1390 A.D., but speaks of Masonic gatherings in York as early as the tenth century.

Modern Freemasonry did not exist until 1717 when the first Grand Lodges were opened in Great Britain.

 

[amadeus72]

Modern Freemasonry did not exist until 1717 when the first Grand Lodges were opened in Great Britain.

The Grand Lodge systemm didn't exist until 1717, but Masonry of course existed before that. The 4 Lodges who formed the first Grand Lodge in 1717 had been themselves chartered by the Masons Company of London, which was in turn chartered by King James as a reorganization of the earlier guild.

 

[amadeus72]

We have no link to the Knights Templar.

Actually, that's still up in the air. There is no direct evidence that links Masonry with the Templars, but there is a good bit of circumstantial evidence, most notably the interior of Rosslyn Chapel, which contains both Templar and Masonic symbolism. The Chapel's official website is:

http://www.rosslynchapel.org.uk/

 

[Abongil]

Actually, that's still up in the air. There is no direct evidence that links Masonry with the Templars, but there is a good bit of circumstantial evidence, most notably the interior of Rosslyn Chapel, which contains both Templar and Masonic symbolism. The Chapel's official website is:

http://www.rosslynchapel.org.uk/

There is some belief that we are descendants of the Knights Templar, although from a distance... Knights Templar were required to remain celebate their entire lives.

 

[amadeus72]

There is some belief that we are descendants of the Knights Templar, although from a distance... Knights Templar were required to remain celebate their entire lives.

True, but the originals were monks. The theory goes that, after being persecuted by Catholics, they left the Church and became Protestants, which would allow the to marry.

I personally withhold judgement: practically anything's possible, but no hard evidence has yet to be uncovered. Some Masonic scholars like Albert Pike and Albert Mackey were convinced of a Templar connection, while others were just as convinced to the contrary.

 

[Abongil]

Very true, many people believe that Albert Pike is the supreme knowledgable writer about Freemasonry, but the thing about Freemasonry is that no one member knows all about it, not even the Grand Master.

 

[DrFate]

Very true, many people believe that Albert Pike is the supreme knowledgable writer about Freemasonry, but the thing about Freemasonry is that no one member knows all about it, not even the Grand Master.

Please let us NOT get into any Pike argumnets on theis thread. There are already Thousands of posting on the subject in this site.
Please.

 

[Abongil]

Please let us NOT get into any Pike argumnets on theis thread. There are already Thousands of posting on the subject in this site.
Please.

What? I will leave it at this. What he writes is his opinion, and like many other peoples opinion may be right or wrong.

 

[DrFate]

What? I will leave it at this. What he writes is his opinion, and like many other peoples opinion may be right or wrong.

Thanks.