Did God send this virus into the world

[JacksBratt]

I can accept that partially. Yes there was an allowance of God but sometimes there is an area where Satan as the god of this world makes actual demands and insists upon rights to do different things. See the devil's conversation about Job to God in Job 2:1-6 and in Luke 22:31 where Jesus said to Peter,

And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.

On the other hand however....not like an open ticket with no conditions! Conditions and it's measure can also be effected by people on the Earth praying. I think there are times that what Satan meant for evil God can use it for good. Such doesn't mean God delights in seeing the degeneration of life (what we call a virus) plaguing mankind. His very LIFE can zap that disease into oblivion in a split second where it wouldn't even exist in the universe. But what about man? Where is he in all this. Are the nations of the world as a general rule even serving God? Psalm 107:10,13 is an interesting read.....

Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, being bound in affliction and iron;Because they rebelled against the words of God, and contemned the counsel of the most High:Therefore he brought down their heart with labour; they fell down, and there was none to help.Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saved them out of their distresses.

So maybe God is looking at the Earth and listening? Does he hear the cry for mercy and healing? Or are we too busy watching Netflix? Not that I don't watch some TV but it might be high time to lift up our eyes and heads to heaven and invite him to be more the God of our lives? What do you think?

That's never a bad idea. I believe that some are coming back to a closer relationship with God through this ordeal.

 

[JacksBratt]

And I can accept that. Part of man's rebellion is also their concluding that death is the END. They call it someone passed away as in they don't exist. God never looks at death of a human that way. It's really a pass-over.....going from one location to another. Sometimes people get mad saying why did God allow this one to die. The fact is if they've received Christ they're not dead at all. They're in a place that they'd never want to come back from.

I agree. My father "passed away". However, we all knew he was just going to a different dimension. The home that was his final destination.

 

[JacksBratt]

How about the flood? And the Canaanites? And many examples from modern times? Did Aids just happen? The Holocaust? The World Wars according to Revelation?

Yes, these were all part of life on earth due to the sin that was brought into it by Adam and Eve. The flood ended up with all thoughts evil constantly and all flesh corrupted. All due to sin.

God could of just let it go until there wasn't even 8 people.. in fact none.. Then the end would have came.
The Canaanites were genetic remnants of the Nephilim. They worshiped idols and were not of God.

Aids happened due to improper work or actions between man and monkey's did it not? It was spread by homosexuality... It wasn't a punishment for homosexuality but it was spread by it.

 

[JacksBratt]

It applies to COVID19 too. It didn't create itself.

Asking an epic question like "Did God create evil" is way beyond.. "Did God send COVID-19 to earth"?

 

[JacksBratt]

Sin = death which includes sickness, even in believers.

Sin = death.. at the end of your life on earth.. an eternal death.. Born once... die twice. Born twice... die once....

Sin doesn't cause one to get sick... Sin in this world broke it.. now sickness, disease, sadness and pain exist in this world.

 

[JacksBratt]

It is a result of the corruption of creation by Satan.

well put.

 

[renniks]

Satan was only allowed to do what God allowed him to do.

How literal do you take the book of Job? It reads like a play. Does Satan really just wander into heaven? Not according to the rest of the Bible.

 

[ZNP]

How literal do you take the book of Job? It reads like a play. Does Satan really just wander into heaven? Not according to the rest of the Bible.

Oh, I thought he was an archangel and doesn't get kicked out until the man child is raptured. So what verses are you talking about?

Here are some other verses that I take literally as well:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Everyone is going to die, not everyone is going to repent and receive the Lord by faith. If this virus helps more people to repent and receive eternal salvation is it that difficult to believe that it came into being through Him?

 

[renniks]

Oh, I thought he was an archangel and doesn't get kicked out until the man child is raptured. So what verses are you talking about?

" when the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the Lord, Satan was there among them. 7 The Lord asked him, “What have you been doing?”

Satan answered, “I have been walking here and there, roaming around the earth.”

Satan was cast down before or just after creation. How is he in heaven with the angels?

 

[ZNP]

" when the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the Lord, Satan was there among them. 7 The Lord asked him, “What have you been doing?”

Satan answered, “I have been walking here and there, roaming around the earth.”

Satan was cast down before or just after creation. How is he in heaven with the angels?

Give me the verse reference on that.

5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to [a]rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there [c]she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.


7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole [d]world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

I don't know about your child.

It's not about my child, it's about me as a father saying, "Sure, let her die". You are arguing that God is a father exactly like this, or am I misrepresenting your position?

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your [f]power, only do not put forth your hand on him.”

This conversation between God and Satan has led many down the path of believing Satan is one of God's tools; as though Satan only works under the permission of God. Like a bad worker that God turns a blind eye to, or even worse, deliberately continues to employ despite the consequences. But look closely at how God responds to Satan. I was so excited and relieved when I saw this. God states the truth about the state of the world! How the devil was the ruler of the world just as God says to him "all that he has in your power" (Job 1:12; Job 2:6). All that Job has is in the devils power just as Jesus called Satan the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. Keep in mind the earth was given to man (Psalms 8:6; Genesis 1:26; Psalms 115:16), rulership was then stolen by the devil, then Jesus had to win the keys to earthly authority (Matthew 16:19; 28:18) which He did at the cross (Matthew 28:18; Colossians 2:15). And then He gave them back to us again (Luke 10:19).

God is not giving permission to the devil, the devil already had permission but God was attempting to protect Job despite the rulership of the devil. The devil is then attacking God's spiritual protection of Job, a spiritual battle of sorts, and wins (see Daniel 10:7-17; 2 Kings 6:11-17).

We all would do well to stop blaming God for the devils work.

 

[renniks]

Give me the verse reference on that.

For Satan being cast down? Don't you think it's happened yet?
Ezekiel 28
You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you. In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you. ...
Isaiah 14
How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.

 

[ZNP]

It's not about my child, it's about me as a father saying, "Sure, let her die". You are arguing that God is a father exactly like this, or am I misrepresenting your position?

Yes.

To answer this question is far more involved than a thread about Corona virus. It touches on the problem of evil. I don't want to get involved in that discussion on this thread because it will hijack it. However, I have already gone into detail on my position on this on another thread.

If you want my position on this you have two options. First you could go read the what I wrote on the other thread. Though it doesn't directly respond to your question. The other option is to start a new thread (Christian only as it is too tiresome to put up with the atheists on this particular discussion). If you do that let me know and I'll give you a detailed answer on that thread.

 

[renniks]

It's not about my child, it's about me as a father saying, "Sure, let her die". You are arguing that God is a father exactly like this, or am I misrepresenting your position?



This conversation between God and Satan has led many down the path of believing Satan is one of God's tools; as though Satan only works under the permission of God. Like a bad worker that God turns a blind eye to, or even worse, deliberately continues to employ despite the consequences. But look closely at how God responds to Satan. I was so excited and relieved when I saw this. God states the truth about the state of the world! How the devil was the ruler of the world just as God says to him "all that he has in your power" (Job 1:12; Job 2:6). All that Job has is in the devils power just as Jesus called Satan the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. Keep in mind the earth was given to man (Psalms 8:6; Genesis 1:26; Psalms 115:16), rulership was then stolen by the devil, then Jesus had to win the keys to earthly authority (Matthew 16:19; 28:18) which He did at the cross (Matthew 28:18; Colossians 2:15). And then He gave them back to us again (Luke 10:19).

God is not giving permission to the devil, the devil already had permission but God was attempting to protect Job despite the rulership of the devil. The devil is then attacking God's spiritual protection of Job, a spiritual battle of sorts, and wins (see Daniel 10:7-17; 2 Kings 6:11-17).

We all would do well to stop blaming God for the devils work.

Exactly.

 

[ZNP]

For Satan being cast down? Don't you think it's happened yet?
Ezekiel 28
You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you. In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you. ...
Isaiah 14
How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.

Revelation 12:1-9 describes in detail when Satan was cast down from the mountain of God.

Revelation 20:1-3 describes in detail when Satan was brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.

 

[renniks]

Revelation 12:1-9 describes in detail when Satan was cast down from the mountain of God.

Revelation 20:1-3 describes in detail when Satan was brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.

I don't think the revelation verses are supposed to be in chronological order. Satan was in garden, not heaven. How is it we are told in the OT he was already cast down if it didn't happen until the cross?

 

[ZNP]

I don't think the revelation verses are supposed to be in chronological order. Satan was in garden, not heaven. How is it we are told in the OT he was already cast down if it didn't happen until the cross?

You were told that by the prophets. Revelation shows it to you.

8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole [d]world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

It is clearly talking about Satan. It is clearly talking about him being thrown down from heaven. And this took place after he deceived the whole world.

2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

These verses are equally clear. It is talking about Satan being bound and cast into the abyss for 1,000 years, during the millennial kingdom.

 

[ACandleInthe Shadows]

We live in a fallen world. We rejected God's help. Of course we'd have calamity befall us.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

How do we answer unbelievers who ask Christians, why our loving God would (allow or send) this microscopic enemy to reek such devastating havoc on the world.

He tried to give men good instructions as to what Kind of creatures to consider as Food and the Chinese ignored him. What is He supposed to do? He is not responsible for what the Chinese did.

There's a lot of disagreement among professing Christians on, whether God sent this virus or whether it was manufactured in a lab and sent out to be used as a weapon of war. Or whether it's neither of those and it's just a random quirk of nature.

Came from men being in contact with "exotic" creatures they were never meant to touch.

I'm not claiming to know the exact origin, but I do believe that God is sovereign over all of His creation. And nothing happens apart from His predetermined will.

Then you have no answer to give to anyone and the god you believe in is simply cruel. It is better to believe that God is who He describes himself to be than the above version. If you stick to the above, you have no answer to anything cruel or Evil that happens in the world because you have already decided God's will decrees that which He hates. Makes no sense but that is not my theology or my Problem. I believe He is sovereign as He describes his sovereignity to be. The above is not it.

So even if it was created by someone will evil intentions, God still uses evil to accomplish His good purpose. I found this very hard to accept, until I realized that I was trying to conform God to my own image.

I can't think of the Bible passages right now, which say that God has only revealed a very limited amount about Himself to us at this time. But He will reveal a lot more in eternity so as hard as it is, we just have to keep trusting in Him.

It is good to trust God but blind trust is not as good as understanding God.

God does use Evil to good but only for those who
1. love Him according to Him, not us
2. are also called according to His purposes

If a Person does not fulfill that criteria, then He is not working Evil to good for them necessarily. He might but most often does not. They do not fulfill the criteria.

I can assure you that God has revealed His ways and Himself to a greater degree than most experience, especially if they believe God is the author of Evil in the world in some form. There are even more strict requirements on those to whom God reveals Himself in this greater degree. One is not believing He is the author of evil. Anyone who does not believe GOd is good and only does good will not find God show them anything of himself. This lets out a whole branch of Christians who believe God does evil and are OK with that theology.

So if you want my advise or you want to understand God, you will need to drop the idea that He is controlling everything and everyone on the planet. Without dropping that, you will learn nothing of the ways of God. Do you want scripture for this?​

 

[Dorothy Mae]

A virus is a parasite that feeds off living cells in order to replicate itself and ultimately leaving that cell dead. It brings only harm and death, I cannot think of any positive purpose to something like SARS-COV-2 for instance. So many Christians regard the beginning of viruses as following the creation of life which viruses feed off and probably originating with the fall of humanity. If they did have some kind of positive role before the fall then that was lost following it. But human immune systems were still strong before the Flood and there are no accounts of major plagues before that time and human beings life spans were much longer. It is possible that the human immune system was enhanced by a superior preflood eco system and also preceded that angelic fiddling with human DNA that followed the fall of the angels from heaven and led to the giants that are also mentioned in the post flood world and whose flawed DNA has polluted the human stream with broken botched code.

Plagues come later and always in the context of judgment. These judgments are usually announced before hand though not necessarily to those who suffer the consequences of them. Davids census for example led to a judgment as plague. Moses announced 10 plagues on Egypt though most Egyptians only realised why they were being judged much later. There have been many denunciations of a failure to care for the weak, the old and the sick of many of those countries worst effected and also of the godlessness or immorality of many of its leaders.

So what is COVID-19 a judgment for. Must admit that it hard to understand and probably in the broadest terms its meaning is inaccessible. So we should probably stick to what we know about it and the facts of its impact if we want to make a guess.

It has an unusual host range known to have infected not only humans but bats and tigers and another species. It seems to be a flu like in its initial symptoms but has far higher kill rate 10-50 times higher in fact and may well be more contagious. It appears not to stop killing people in warm weather as it is still doing that around the world regardless of season. It targets older people or people with weakened immune systems in particular though not exclusively.

In China the victims were mainly godless communists in possibly the least Christian city in China so no problem there defining it as a judgment

In South Korea it hit a blasphemous cult very hard so again no problem

In Iran it hit Shia believers focused on Qoms - so judgment on false religion

But then it hit Europe and it hit a deeply Catholic area of Italy and then Spain and the older generation. These are the ones who go to church while the young do not. These are practicing Christians in the main albeit sitting on a lot of wealth they have not shared. So it would be less a judgment on faith than on what has been done with gifts given perhaps. It spread to other countries also like the USA where Christian devotion is high. If it were a judgment of faith alone then surely it should hit the younger generation of these countries who have often forsaken God.

The biggest costs for this disease have been felt by:
1) Italy, Spain, France,UK the low countries and the USA
2) It is a major challenge to globalisation and to supranational organisations like the EU
3) The most significant attack on US Military capability was the effective removal of an aircraft carrier tasked with patrolling the China area, so big win for China

The beneficiaries of this diseases history look like being in the long run:
1) Doctors and nurses - universally recognised as the heroes of this crisis.
2) China, which because it has now controlled the virus is uniquely placed to control the post virus world and to get its economy back and running before the USA for instance
3) Greens like Greta Thunberg who think we are abusing the planet and heading for environmental catastrophe. A catastrophe which if true looks like it has been massively delayed by the reductions in pollution resulting from this crisis

What the virus says to me is that God is judging the current form of globalisation with its emphasis of individual rights over communal concerns, a form of capitalism that often failed to look out for the weakest members of its communities and to count the cost of what it was doing to the environment,also that he is calling many of his more fragile people home from the places where he is most angry and where the economic consequences of this virus will be most severe like Italy,Spain, France the UK and the USA.

Pretty interesting piece. I am not sure how the EU is supranational as the individual nations are stubbornly maintaining their own national identity and only Switzerland (not EU) is close to a nationalistic country.

The worst nationalistic country in the world is likely the US which has started more wars and has Military bases in so many countries they did not conquer it boggles the mind. If any other country would try to have as many sovereign Military bases on foreign soil the US would cry long and loud "foul" so I think you missed on that point. But the Catholic nations being hardest hit is true and interesting.

The US is so far the hardest hit. Living in Europe I find it ironic that the US pointed the finger to the EU as the "epicenter" when 3 fingers of that hand were pointing back at them. Seems to been a prelude to what was coming.