Did God Really Tell Hosea to Marry a Prostitute?

[Bible Highlighter]

In your case that is probably true.

Thank you for the insult. I will rejoice in God my Savior (as He told me to do in times like this).

As for the rest of us, the fact that Joseph of Arimathea gave the Lord his very own tomb when he died, and arranged for his decent burial, says all that we need to know. Nobody gives away a tomb to a casual acquaintance.

Like I said, Judas was a disciple of Jesus, but if we did not receive any of the details of his betrayal or bad ways, then a person could wrongfully think that he was a good follower of Jesus all his life (Which is not the case). Judas was once a saved believer, but he fell away from the faith.

 

[Dave-W]

Yeah, but what about the moral issue, though? Do you just sweep that type of thinking under the carpet?

Is that not one of the very issues Our Lord had against certain Pharisees?

You are straining at gnats (the perceived moral issue) while swallowing camels. (judging God and people to be 2 dimensional mechanical beings incapable of acting outside your box you put them in)

BTW - did you notice up above in post # 25 that Paul said "...Brethren, I am a Pharisee," Not "used to be" or "was". "AM." Present tense. This is just after he was arrested in the Temple on false charges of bringing in gentiles. He was in the middle of doing temple service for the conclusion of Nazirite vows, both his own (which ended prematurely in Cenchria) and 4 others from the Jerusalem congregation. BTW - that included animal sacrifices. Paul still was a Pharisee.

 

[Catherineanne]

Thank you for the insult. I will rejoice in God my Savior (as He told me to do in times like this).

Like I said, Judas was a disciple of Jesus, but if we did not receive any of the details of his betrayal or bad ways, then a person could wrongfully think that he was a good follower of Jesus all his life (Which is not the case). Judas was once a saved believer, but he fell away from the faith.

There are a lot of good people giving you the answers to your objections, but you are ignoring them all, just as you have ignored my observation about Joseph of Arimathea giving the Lord his own tomb.

Feel free to rejoice in doing that if you want. It takes all sorts.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Is that not one of the very issues Our Lord had against certain Pharisees?

You are straining at gnats (the perceived moral issue) while swallowing camels. (judging God and people to be 2 dimensional mechanical beings incapable of acting outside your box you put them in)

BTW - did you notice up above in post # 25 that Paul said "...Brethren, I am a Pharisee," Not "used to be" or "was". "AM." Present tense. This is just after he was arrested in the Temple on false charges of bringing in gentiles. He was in the middle of doing temple service for the conclusion of Nazirite vows, both his own (which ended prematurely in Cenchria) and 4 others from the Jerusalem congregation. BTW - that included animal sacrifices. Paul still was a Pharisee.

Paul is speaking in title only of his old position. He did not live out the life of a Jew and continue to work amongst the other Jews in his old Pharisee job, but he lived out the life of a Christian instead (and was persecuted by the Jews).

 

[Catherineanne]

Biblical verses which identify Israel as a Prostitute; one of God's leitmotifs.

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/3915/Israel-as-Prostitute.htm

Perhaps the OP would care to re-interpret all of this lot as well, while he is at it.

 

[Catherineanne]

Paul is speaking in title only. He did not live out the life of a Jew but he lived out the life of a Christian.

Where does the Bible say that?

You are just making this stuff up, aren't you?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There are a lot of good people giving you the answers to your objections, but you are ignoring them all, just as you have ignored my observation about Joseph of Arimathea giving the Lord his own tomb.

Feel free to rejoice in doing that if you want. It takes all sorts.

I am not ignoring anything. I responded with the Word of God to your answers but you both simply do not like those answers in God's Word that I have given. You also have not answered the moral issue, either.

 

[Dave-W]

He did not live out the life of a Jew and continue in his old Pharisee job,

Really? Then why did he say this when he arrived at Rome to witness before Nero?

Acts 28.17 After three days Paul called together those who were the leading men of the Jews, and when they came together, he began saying to them, “Brethren, though I had done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.

Now that phrase "customs of our fathers," refers to the oral tradition handed down by the Pharisees. So he claimed not only to have kept the Law of Moses but kept the Pharisaic oral code as well; right up to the time of his arrest. Did he lie?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Where does the Bible say that?

You are just making this stuff up, aren't you?

So you are saying that Paul went back and lived a life of a Jew, too? That doesn't make sense. Paul was a Christian and he was persecuted by the Jews. Do you need verses for that?

 

[Dave-W]

So you are saying that Paul went back and lived a life of a Jew, too? That doesn't make sense. Paul was a Christian and he was persecuted by the Jews. Do you need verses for that?

Ah - I see part of the problem. You do not comprehend the fact that one can be a New Covenant believer AND a proper Jew at the same time.

There was never supposed to be a separate religion/faith family of Christianity. The New Covenant was to bring forth TRUE biblical Judaism. (see Jeremiah 31)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Really? Then why did he say this when he arrived at Rome to witness before Nero?

Acts 28.17 After three days Paul called together those who were the leading men of the Jews, and when they came together, he began saying to them, “Brethren, though I had done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.

Now that phrase "customs of our fathers," refers to the oral tradition handed down by the Pharisees. So he claimed not only to have kept the Law of Moses but kept the Pharisaic oral code as well; right up to the time of his arrest. Did he lie?

Context is everything....

"Who, when they had examined me, would have let me go, because there was no cause of death in me. But when the Jews spoke against it, I was constrained to appeal unto Caesar; not that I had anything to accuse my nation of."

Right, I can see it now. Paul punches the time clock in His Jewish Pharisee job at 5:00AM and then at 12:00PM he is persecuted by the same Jews he is working for. Right.... and I am the Easterbunny.

Anyways, the customs of our fathers is talking about how he obeyed the Law of Moses. It's not talking about some Pharisee tradition.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ah - I see part of the problem. You do not comprehend the fact that one can be a New Covenant believer AND a proper Jew at the same time.

There was never supposed to be a separate religion/faith family of Christianity. The New Covenant was to bring forth TRUE biblical Judaism. (see Jeremiah 31)

Paul preached in Jewish synagogues. Paul did not attend Jewish churches so as to practice Judaism and also be a Christian on the side. Paul was a Christian who was in time persecuted by the Jews.

 

[Hank77]

Would you just marry someone you knew to be sinful if there was a spirit you thought was God telling you to do that?

If I or you were a true, proven Prophet of God, as Hosea was, then yes, we would know for sure when God is telling us to do something. But I am not a prophet of God and I suspect you are not either.

If that were so, then WHY would James, the brother of the Lord, who led the Jerusalem church in Acts, ALSO at the same time be the head of one of the 2 main Pharisaic schools in Jerusalem?

Where do you get this information from. NOT saying that you are incorrect.

“Brethren, though I had done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.

How is it that Paul, after his experience with the risen Messiah, did not return to Jerusalem for 14 yrs.? It is a requirement of the Law that every male Jew be in Jerusalem for the three main feasts. ie. Acts/Pentecost

Not according to the Bible. Jesus called them hypocrites

Just as He will call some Christians, hypocrites. There are Pharisees in the church today who make up their own oral laws.

And so was the Lord himself.

Where did you get this information from? As far as I know the Pharisees were lawyers not carpenters.

Joseph of Arimathea

Mar 15:43 Joseph of Arimathea, an honourable counsellor, who also himself was waiting for the reign of God, came, boldly entered in unto Pilate, and asked the body of Jesus.
bouleutēs = counsellor = Sanhedrim
Pharisaios = Pharisees = Pharisees
Joseph was a member of the Sanhedrim and a disciple of Christ. What is really interesting about him providing Jesus with his tomb is that, the Sanhedrim did not believe in the resurrection of the dead.

He called them hypocrites. He said that they were of their father the devil.

Only those who would not come in the Kingdom and would not let others enter in, through their bad teachings and lack of belief. They would rather follow the oral law, traditions of men, than receive Christ. If they would just have looked at the Law of Moses, through the Messiah's teachings, they would have seen.

 

[Dave-W]

Jason - Jason Jason .....

It was not until half a century later that "Christianity" really had any existence separate from Judaism. That happened following the Bar Kochba revolt of 135 ad. There was no understood separation in that day and age.

Aside: (this is for free) That was a good thing because it let Simon ben Clopas (Cousin of the Lord) who led the Jerusalem church after James died; to hide some new covenant (christian) doctrine into the prayers of traditional Judaism as it changed from Pharisaic to Rabbinic Judaism after the destruction of the temple. First Fruits of Zion had a good article on that last year some time.

 

[Dave-W]

What is really interesting about him providing Jesus with his tomb is that, the Sanhedrim did not believe in the resurrection of the dead.

You don't know what the Sanhedrin was.

It was a legislative body that also served as a supreme court of sorts. It was split 50-50 between the Sadducees (temple priests) and the Pharisees who ran the extensive network of synagogues. Doctrinally, the Pharisees were very much believing in resurrection while Sadducees did not.

 

[Hank77]

It was not until half a century later that "Christianity" really had any existence separate from Judaism. That happened following the Bar Kochba revolt of 135 ad. There was no understood separation in that day and age.

Just confused as to what you are referring to here.
We know that the gentiles were not welcome in the synagogue in Rome. Not the one's that were followers of Paul teachings.

The only time a gentile was welcome was when they were converting to OT Judaism. They had to be circumcised and follow the Law of Moses.
Even some of the converts to Messiah thought so, too. The counsel at Jerusalem decided they didn't.
The tension between those of the Law and those of faith in Messiah was real and there was blood shed over it.

 

[Hank77]

You don't know what the Sanhedrin was.

It was a legislative body that also served as a supreme court of sorts. It was split 50-50 between the Sadducees (temple priests) and the Pharisees who ran the extensive network of synagogues. Doctrinally, the Pharisees were very much believing in resurrection while Sadducees did not.

Why do you assume that I don't. I have been studying Judaism and reading the writings of Jews both past and present for several years now.
RE-READ my post. I said that the SANHEDRIM did NOT believe in the resurrection. So we agree about that!!!

 

[Dave-W]

The only time a gentile was welcome was when they were converting to OT Judaism. They had to be circumcised and follow the Law of Moses.
Even some of the converts to Messiah thought so, too. The counsel at Jerusalem decided they didn't.
The tension between those of the Law and those of faith in Messiah was real and there was blood shed over it.

Too simple of an explanation.

James stated in the First Council of Jerusalem (we are working toward a Second) that Moses was read in the synagogues every Sabbath. Since the letter was written to gentiles, it is taken as he is advocating the gentile believers go learn of Moses in the synagogues. That was possible until 70 ad when the Jesus followers took Our Lord's words into action "When you see the City surrounded head for the hills." Luke 21.20-21 So they were looked at as traitors during the Roman siege. But things slowly got back to the pre-war state but when Bar Kochba was declared to be the Messiah by Rabbi Akiva, the followers of Jesus refused to fight for a false messiah. That put the final nail in the coffin of unity between church and synagogue.

 

[Dave-W]

I said that the SANHEDRIM did NOT believe in the resurrection. So we agree about that!!!

Sanhedrin is spelled with an N, not an M (which would make it a plural in Hebrew)
And half of the members of the Sanhedrin DID believe in resurrection.

Question: where have you been learning about Judaism? From Christian sources or Jewish sources?

 

[Hank77]

Sanhedrin is spelled with an N, not an M (which would make it a plural in Hebrew)

And half of the members of the Sanhedrin DID believe in resurrection.

You said.....

Doctrinally, the Pharisees were very much believing in resurrection while Sadducees did not.

We were saying the exactly same thing.