Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
He ordained it.
Yes don’t know how to categorize this. Perhaps this is semi-Deistic?If I understand you correctly, God never has had any plan, but He merely reacts to what happens. Am I correct in thinking this?
I did not quote Calvin and this is not about him. But the dodge is noted.Ca
Calvin's quotes that God is the author of evil:
...how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be, not by His will but by His permission... It is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing, but the author of them... (John Calvin, The Eternal Predestination of God, 10:11)
The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)
thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5)
…it is utterly inconsistent to transfer the preparation for destruction to anything but God’s secret plan… God’s secret plan is the cause of hardening. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)
…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)
No that he is omniscient, but that it was his plan.
So God’s plan is to set things up and correct what goes wrong?Reacts to what happens is wrong.
Like I said, God is. God works through both the past, present and future since he is there.
Like some people say God in the Old Testament was different from the New Testament, that's not true rather he dealt with people in different time in different manner.
Good post. Missing one important thing. This was part of God’s predetermined plan. Peter says so in Acts 2:23.Luk_22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
[1] Sovereingty of God is seen. The devil has to ask permission from Jesus in order to tempt Peter. God does not make/ordain satan to tempt Peter, but simply allows it. God does not make/ordain Peter to fail or succeed. Both possibilites existed and the outcome was simply known ahead by Jesus. The devil chooses to do this temptation, and God allows it to take place for a reason.
[2] Peter has freedom of will (choice) to either choose Christ or satan. Peter's freedom of will is granted by God, even as God granted it to satan/lucifer.
[3] Jesus foreknew Peter would fail (they all would fail) and even told him (them) so, yet Jesus did not make Peter fail, make Peter choose to deny Christ, but rather allowed Peter the decision, between affirmation or denial of Christ Jesus. Jesus' foreknowledge does not negate the choice given to Peter, it simply reveals beforehand what that choice would be at the moment of choice. Peter did not have to deny Christ, but he did deny Christ in the moment of decision (which was foreknown what that decision of Peter would be, this foreknowledge doesn't take away the choice of Peter at all, it only reveals that choice made). Again, do not confuse foreknowledge with a false understanding of predestiny.
[4] That Jesus foreknew Peter's failure and recovery, does not mean that there was no decision or choice, or freedom of will. It only means that God knew in advance what Peter's thoughts and actions would be in response to the devil's temptation and the pleadings of the Holy Ghost for repentance. God gives choices to men, and even angels, but those decisions (outcomes from possibilities) which arise from the choices given are never forced by God, even when God foreknows the outcomes.
[5] Freedom of will granted by God, does not ever grant man/angel omniscience, or omnipotence.
He wanted it to happen, so He orchestrated it. He’s in control of everything.
Of course there is, even if God knew what your choice would be, God never makes anyone sin. The offense was inevitable without righteousness, that comes only from God since it's based on his nature.Absolute foreknowledge negates free will, IMHO.
If you have free will, that means there's uncertainty. It could be this, or it could be that.
If what you will choose is known with 100% certainty prior to you choosing it, then there was no true choice in the matter.
That we have both an outer man and an inner man (soul/spirit) is central to Holy Scriptures.it advocated in regards immortal soul/spirit theology which is central to Calvinism, and in the link you provided the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, I cited directly from, and refuted it.
Do you always jump into other's conversation, even though it has nothing to do with you?...But this is not the tread OP.
Not necessarily.Absolute foreknowledge negates free will, IMHO.
If you have free will, that means there's uncertainty. It could be this, or it could be that.
If what you will choose is known with 100% certainty prior to you choosing it, then there was no true choice in the matter.
Does 1 peter 1: 18-20 say redemption was predestined. If so isn't fall predestined?For those who believe in God predestine events, was the Fall one of them?
God is not bound by time so even saying that God foreknew means like God was present at a point in time
Of course there is, even if God knew what your choice would be, God never makes anyone sin. The offense was inevitable without righteousness, that comes only from God since it's based on his nature.
Salvation is not his plan B, he just worked with what people messed up.
Now answer my question.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?