Did God predestine the Fall?

[Hammster]

God said they would want to hear teaching that would tickle their ears.

It was so rare that 50 years ago no one ever heard of Calvinism. But people want to hear what makes them feel special, so of course their are preachers that will preach it.

You might want to check on that history.

 

[Hammster]

God knowing beforehand doesn’t mean anything special. God knows the people who will reject Him too.

That’s what being omniscient is.

I just think people want to feel God chose them over someone else. It’s a psychological concept that people want to feel special.

People’s ego loves that. Tickling their ears as the Bible says.

So since you have no decent argument, you want to be insulting?

I’m sorry to hear that.

 

[Hammster]

For the record, the only people who might feel special for being chosen are those who do not have a concept of how truly sinful they are. Judging by the posts in this thread, it seems that the Reformed folk have a much better grasp on the doctrine of sin than the others. It’s because of this understanding that we in no way feel special, but are extremely grateful that God has shown us mercy. We understand that there’s no difference between us and the children of wrath. We totally deserve eternal torment.

It reminds me of this passage.

“And Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." And he replied, "Say it, Teacher." "A moneylender had two debtors: one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they were unable to repay, he graciously forgave them both. So which of them will love him more?" Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have judged correctly."”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:40-43‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[BBAS 64]

God said they would want to hear teaching that would tickle their ears.

It was so rare that 50 years ago no one ever heard of Calvinism. But people want to hear what makes them feel special, so of course their are preachers that will preach it.

Good day,

You have a real substandard understanding of the historical record. Why you feel the need to misrepresent the record is beyond me.

Sad!

 

[ToBeLoved]

So since you have no decent argument, you want to be insulting?

I’m sorry to hear that.

Not at all. But their is a very real psychological need we have as humans to feel special.

Maybe some people like that feeling as far as reformed theology is concerned.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Good day,

You have a real substandard understanding of the historical record. Why you feel the need to misrepresent the record is beyond me.

Sad!

Well why don’t you put forth the dates of when Reformed theology began as far as Calvinism with some proof. From reliable sources of course

 

[ToBeLoved]

So since you have no decent argument, you want to be insulting?

I’m sorry to hear that.

Calvinism is an insulting theology to God. That God predestines people to hell.

The other side of your own coin is insulting. Think how God feels.

 

[dad]

I know. And obviously you haven’t looked at the three times it’s used. But if you want to remain ignorant, so be it.

You think you know.

 

[ToBeLoved]

So since you have no decent argument, you want to be insulting?

I’m sorry to hear that.

That is a descent argument. God’s Omniscience.

Why do you disregard that quality of God as an excuse

Why do the characteristics of God not matter? If God knows ALL TRUTH why would you think He would not know the future.

Is your God short changed by your theology?

 

[dad]

So we chose, but we are the chosen? Wouldn’t that make us the choosers and Him the chosen?

No. It makes Him wonderful because He leaves the choice to us. Those who chose Him of course are chosen also of Him. He would love it if all men became part of His chosen. He died to make it possible. So don't tell me that He does all the choosin.

 

[dad]

Calvinism is an insulting theology to God. That God predestines people to hell.

I wonder if a Calvinist will deny this here, about people being pre destined to hell? If not, I guess they have to wear it.

 

[dad]

I’m thankful. You should be, too.

No, I would not be thankful to be among a few hostages released. I still would not trust the captors.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I wonder if a Calvinist will deny this here, about people being pre destined to hell? If not, I guess they have to wear it.

They won’t wear it. That’s the problem, hence all the questions about do we deserve hell.

You didn’t think that line of questioning is was a coincidence?

No. They have that guilt on us down pat. But it’s not valid as I can see from the Bible

 

[dad]

They won’t wear it. That’s the problem, hence all the questions about do we deserve hell.

You didn’t think that line of questioning is was a coincidence?

No. They have that guilt on us down pat. But it’s not valid as I can see from the Bible

I heard that everyone deserves hell. Thankfully we don't get what we deserve. I was a little put off by one of the posters who seemed to suggest they deserved to be among the pre destined 'chosen' ones.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I heard that everyone deserves hell. Thankfully we don't get what we deserve. I was a little put off by one of the posters who seemed to suggest they deserved to be among the pre destined 'chosen' ones.

Well that’s the thing, since they feel “chosen” and know they have Christ then they feel that every one God doesn’t choose that’s ok.

But we cannot deny who God tells us HE is in the Bible. This is not ‘my opinion’ of who I think Christ is but 35 years of attending Bible-based churches and knowing and studying.

With all that, I am confident that I do know scripture and I do not see what Calvinist’s see. Now God does talk about predestination, but I believe that is because God is Omniscient. God knows all. Everything that ever was and everything that will ever be.

Just look at the book of Revelation. It talks about what will happen in the end times and when Jesus returns. Obviously God knows what is going to happen and it’s because of who He is. He knows all.

That’s my Biblical understanding from my studying.

 

[Hammster]

Not at all. But their is a very real psychological need we have as humans to feel special.

Maybe some people like that feeling as far as reformed theology is concerned.

Maybe. But to insinuate that it’s the norm is just taking a cheap shot. You are better than this.

 

[Hammster]

You think you know.

All I have is the evidence of how you use the phrase.

 

[Hammster]

That is a descent argument. God’s Omniscience.

Why do you disregard that quality of God as an excuse

Why do the characteristics of God not matter? If God knows ALL TRUTH why would you think He would not know the future.

Is your God short changed by your theology?

I don’t disregard His omniscience. The question comes down to, how does He know? Does He learn from seeing how things unfold, or does He know because He ordains all things?

 

[Hammster]

No. It makes Him wonderful because He leaves the choice to us. Those who chose Him of course are chosen also of Him. He would love it if all men became part of His chosen. He died to make it possible. So don't tell me that He does all the choosin.

Yeah, but that doesn’t really address the question. If we are the choosers, and He is who is chosen, why are we referred to as chosen?

 

[Hammster]

No, I would not be thankful to be among a few hostages released. I still would not trust the captors.

So here we have it. Those in hell are just getting a raw deal and don’t really deserve it.