Did God predestine the Fall?

[ToBeLoved]

Always?

Show me the Bible says different.

Is your theology based on your opinion or what God says? I think God would know.

 

[Hammster]

Show me the Bible says different.

Is your theology based on your opinion or what God says? I think God would know.

Please answer the question. Does faith always come by hearing?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Please answer the question. Does faith always come by hearing?

Yes. The Bible tells us faith comes by hearing.

 

[Hammster]

Yes. The Bible tells us faith comes by hearing.

That’s not what I’m asking. Does everyone who hears receive faith?

 

[ToBeLoved]

That’s not what I’m asking. Does everyone who hears receive faith?

Of course not. If that was true, most of the US would be Christian.

That does not invalidate how one comes to faith however.

God’s Word doesn’t support the position that everyone who hears the gospel comes to God, so I’m not even sure why you ask that.

 

[Hammster]

Of course not. If that was true, most of the US would be Christian.

That does not invalidate how one comes to faith however.

God’s Word doesn’t support the position that everyone who hears the gospel comes to God, so I’m not even sure why you ask that.

So then hearing doesn’t lead to faith (believing) for everyone. That’s the Reformed position.

 

[redleghunter]

The Bible says faith comes by hearing the gospel.

That’s a good first step hearing.

 

[redleghunter]

So then hearing doesn’t lead to faith (believing) for everyone. That’s the Reformed position.

A most important distinction.

Luke 8: NASB

9And when his disciples asked him what this parable meant, 10he said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’

 

[ToBeLoved]

So then hearing doesn’t lead to faith (believing) for everyone. That’s the Reformed position.

That’s almost everyone’s position.

Reformed churches just like to act like they own doctrine.

It’s not however Reformed as in their is no regerneration step before a person comes to faith out of free will and belief

 

[ToBeLoved]

That’s a good first step hearing.

That’s what the Bible says, not that that effects your position at all.

 

[ToBeLoved]

A most important distinction.

Luke 8: NASB

9And when his disciples asked him what this parable meant, 10he said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’

So you are comparing the teachings and knowledge given directly to them by Christ through teaching, with someone hearing the gospel today?

Was Jesus not very affective? Did not Jesus teach the disciples ‘more’ things of God?

 

[redleghunter]

That’s what the Bible says, not that that effects your position at all.

Hearing is important. Having ears that hear even more so. Luke 8:9-10

 

[redleghunter]

So you are comparing the teachings and knowledge given directly to them by Christ through teaching, with someone hearing the gospel today?

Was Jesus not very affective? Did not Jesus teach the disciples ‘more’ things of God?

It’s the ears that hear which is important. Notice His context was secrets of the Kingdom of God.

 

[dad]

You need to reread it.

Here what you think it says.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered you together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! -

Here’s what it says.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! - Matthew 23:37

The idea is that He wanted the folks in Israel to come to Him...to choose Him, and they refused and resisted. The idea is not that He gathers them like it or lump it!

 

[dad]

Always?

I would think that a baby has to be born first, before it can start getting nourishment and growing from breast milk.

 

[dad]

The Bible says faith comes by hearing the gospel.

Correct. I suppose we could qualify that to especially after we first repent/get saved/come to Him. Then we have His spirit, and so His word grows our faith.

 

[dad]

That is what I am saying, but that does not keep humans from making limited autonomous free will choices?

No.

 

[dad]

What leads a dead in trespasses sinner to Romans 10:9-11.

We are all called...some folks heed.

 

[redleghunter]

We are all called...some folks heed.

You mean the General call of the Gospel.

 

[mark kennedy]

Correct. I suppose we could qualify that to especially after we first repent/get saved/come to Him. Then we have His spirit, and so His word grows our faith.

You do mean the Holy Spirit right?