Did God know if you were going to read this thread?

[Qwertyui0p]

Ah, so God knew you were going to click this thread, but you still could choose not to? In that case, God is mistaken.

No, because if I was going to choose not to, God would know that, because that would be reality instead of me choosing to.

 

[doubtingmerle]

No, because if I was going to choose not to, God would know that, because that would be reality instead of me choosing to.

Ah, so since God knew that you were going to click this thread, when you came to the "decision", it had already been determined that you were going to click on this thread. You had no choice but to do what had been determined.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

OK, you are here. Did God know if you were going to read this thread?

If yes, then how can you have free will? For you had to click that button, and there is no way you could have done anything but read this.

But if God did not know, how can he be all knowing?

Look up Open Theism or Neo Molinism.

 

[Ed1wolf]

If knowledge knows I will eat eggs for breakfast tomorrow, does my will have the ability to go against knowledge, and eat pancakes instead?

Not against omniscience. But Yes, it is called changing your mind, and God will know that you are going to do that. But He does not limit your choice in any way.

 

[Qwertyui0p]

Ah, so since God knew that you were going to click this thread, when you came to the "decision", it had already been determined that you were going to click on this thread. You had no choice but to do what had been determined.

Suppose that a meteorologist was able to predict the weather 100% accurately, so that he/she knew what the whether would be. Does that mean he/she determines the weather?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Suppose that a meteorologist was able to predict the weather 100% accurately, so that he/she knew what the whether would be. Does that mean he/she determines the weather?

No.

 

[mama2one]

.

 

[Qwertyui0p]

No.

Exactly. Knowing something will happen =/= making it happen.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Exactly. Knowing something will happen =/= making it happen.

Hmmm. Consider this, though: it's not really fair to speak of "knowing something will happen" in the sense we say "I know that if I drop this apple it will hit the ground," or "I know that my little child is going to throw a tantrum if he doesn't get a chocolate bar." Because although it's fine to use the word "know" in this everyday sense, it's not technically correct. I do not know that an apple, dropped to the ground, will hit it. Maybe someone nearby will dive forward and catch it. Maybe there is an invisible sheet of plastic underneath it, where I can't see it. Maybe it's on an invisible thread. I do not have 100% certainty. And as for my chocolateless infant, maybe she stays calm today. Miracles do happen!

But is that what we're talking about here? If God knows everything, then He does know, with 100% certainty, what will happen. More than that, He knows what will happen in the future. More than that, He has always known, from the first nanosecond of creation, what will happen. And that means that God, who created the universe, deliberately planned everything that will happen.
And that means that yes, He did know you were going to read this page. And you never had any choice. You may think that you have free will, but whatever you "choose" to do, it's what God planned for you to do.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Exactly. Knowing something will happen =/= making it happen.

I didn't say it did.

What I said is, if God knows for sure that you will do something, then you have no choice but to do what he knows. Do you agree?

 

[mama2one]

.

 

[doubtingmerle]

What I said is, if God knows for sure that you will do something, then you have no choice but to do what he knows. Do you agree?

no to above post

I

Oh, I see. If God knows for sure you will do something, then you can choose to do different from what he knew you would do.

Doesn't sound to me that he actually knew.

 

[Qwertyui0p]

I didn't say it did.

What I said is, if God knows for sure that you will do something, then you have no choice but to do what he knows. Do you agree?

So you are saying that something is true because God knows it, rather than God knows something because it is true?

 

[mama2one]

.

 

[doubtingmerle]

^ this is so illogical but know that anything I say will be rejected
of course, if you don't see how what you said is illogical, there's no explaination that will satisfy

Wait, I was just repeating what you had said in different words.

So you now see that your point was illogical?

 

[doubtingmerle]

So you are saying that something is true because God knows it, rather than God knows something because it is true?

No.

Again, what I said is, if God knows for sure that you will do something, then you [would] have no choice but to do what he knows. Do you agree?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Look up Open Theism or Neo Molinism.[/QUOTE

Look up Open Theism or Neo Molinism.

I read, "We have seen that Molinism and neo-Molinism both share the conviction that God possesses middle knowledge and that this grants God maximal providential control over a world inhabited by agents possessing libertarian freedom. In both models, God has as much control as is logically possible, given his decision to create a world in which agents possess libertarian freedom."

In other words, this is the view that God does not know everything in the future, but knows all the possible options that might happen. God has " middle knowledge". I think this contradicts every other christian response here, which say God knows what will happen. Are they all wrong?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Not against omniscience. But Yes, it is called changing your mind, and God will know that you are going to do that. But He does not limit your choice in any way.

Huh?

The question was, if God knows I will eat eggs tomorrow, can I choose to eat pancakes instead? And you say yes, I can do that, and then God will know that I will not eat eggs. This makes no sense. You have God knowing both that I will eat eggs and that I will not eat eggs, two contradictory things.

Then again this may explain the contradictions in the bible!

 

[doubtingmerle]

Do you know how many times I've said to my daughter
"I knew you were going to do that, pick that, eat that"?

just because I knew she was going to do something doesn't mean I caused her to do it

Are you ever mistaken about what your daughter will do?

 

[mama2one]

.