Did God know if you were going to read this thread?

[doubtingmerle]

OK, you are here. Did God know if you were going to read this thread?

If yes, then how can you have free will? For you had to click that button, and there is no way you could have done anything but read this.

But if God did not know, how can he be all knowing?

 

[Chesterton]

Yes, He knew the same way you know what a character in a movie is going to do when you're seeing the movie for the second time. That in no way means that you caused the character to do what he does.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Yes, He knew the same way you know what a character in a movie is going to do when you're seeing the movie for the second time. That in no way means that you caused the character to do what he does.

Then who caused you to click unto this thread? If your God knew you were going to do it, you could not have possibly chosen otherwise. So who caused you to click the button?

 

[Chesterton]

Then who caused you to click unto this thread? If your God knew you were going to do it, you could not have possibly chosen otherwise. So who caused you to click the button?

I caused myself to do it. He knew (in my past) that I was going to. If I had done otherwise, He would have known I'd do otherwise. I don't see how this is a problem.

 

[cloudyday2]

I caused myself to do it. He knew (in my past) that I was going to. If I had done otherwise, He would have known I'd do otherwise. I don't see how this is a problem.

If God wants a relationship with us then he cannot know our choices. It would be like trying to have a relationship with a rerun of Gilligan's Island that you have seen 50 times already.

 

[Chesterton]

If God wants a relationship with us then he cannot know our choices. It would be like trying to have a relationship with a rerun of Gilligan's Island that you have seen 50 times already.

Why can't He have a relationship if He knows our choices?

 

[klutedavid]

OK, you are here. Did God know if you were going to read this thread?

If yes, then how can you have free will? For you had to click that button, and there is no way you could have done anything but read this.

But if God did not know, how can he be all knowing?

Depends on what level you think that freewill operates.

I had no freewill in where I was born or the choice of my parents, for example. I did not choose the way I was raised, whether I even attended a church.

There is a sense of freewill in some levels of life, but there is also a level of determinism that we do not control.

 

[cloudyday2]

Why can't He have a relationship if He knows our choices?

Well, God is supposed to be patient and long-suffering and so on, but I think he would get pretty bored.

 

[eleos1954]

OK, you are here. Did God know if you were going to read this thread?

If yes, then how can you have free will? For you had to click that button, and there is no way you could have done anything but read this.

But if God did not know, how can he be all knowing?

Yes ... he knew i would read this .... but He didn't make me read it .... He knew I would choose to read it. I chose to click the button ... nothing forced me to ... I made a choice ... I could have made the choice not to read it as well.

 

[Chesterton]

Well, God is supposed to be patient and long-suffering and so on, but I think he would get pretty bored.

“Because children have abounding vitality, because they are in spirit fierce and free, therefore they want things repeated and unchanged. They always say, "Do it again"; and the grown-up person does it again until he is nearly dead. For grown-up people are not strong enough to exult in monotony. But perhaps God is strong enough to exult in monotony. It is possible that God says every morning, "Do it again" to the sun; and every evening, "Do it again" to the moon. It may not be automatic necessity that makes all daisies alike; it may be that God makes every daisy separately, but has never got tired of making them. It may be that He has the eternal appetite of infancy; for we have sinned and grown old, and our Father is younger than we.”
​

- G. K. Chesterton

 

[doubtingmerle]

I caused myself to do it. He knew (in my past) that I was going to. If I had done otherwise, He would have known I'd do otherwise. I don't see how this is a problem.

And you could not possibly have chosen to bypass this thread?

 

[doubtingmerle]

I made a choice ... I could have made the choice not to read it as well.

Since God knew you were going to click the button, how could you have chosen to not click it?

 

[Chesterton]

And you could not possibly have chosen to bypass this thread?

Yes I could have.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Yes I could have.

But God knew you were going to click the button.

If God knew you were going to click it, how could you have chosen otherwise?

 

[eleos1954]

If God wants a relationship with us then he cannot know our choices. It would be like trying to have a relationship with a rerun of Gilligan's Island that you have seen 50 times already.

He knows what our choices will be .... doesn't not control our choices.

Your example doesn't fly ....

foreknowledge is knowing something BEFORE it happens ... your rerun example is something that has already happened (you already watched it and have knowledge of it) that isn't foreknowledge

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

I don't see how knowing what someone will do ahead of time means they didn't have a choice.

 

[doubtingmerle]

But perhaps God is strong enough to exult in monotony. It is possible that God says every morning, "Do it again" to the sun;
​

​

The other possibility is that Newton's laws of motion cause the bodies in motion to stay in motion.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I don't see how knowing what someone will do ahead of time means they didn't have a choice.

Ok, so God knew you were going to click the button. Could you then have done otherwise? If you could not have done otherwise, how is that a choice?

 

[Chesterton]

But God knew you were going to click the button.

If God knew you were going to click it, how could you have chosen otherwise?

I don't understand the question. If I clicked, He would have known that. If I didn't, He would have known that. What is the problem exactly?

 

[eleos1954]

Since God knew you were going to click the button, how could you have chosen to not click it?

because I could have just as well chose not to ... and if that had happened then He would have know I made that choice.

choice
noun

1. an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities.

I made the decision .... and He knew what decision I would make.