Did God die upon the Cross?

dms1972

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I don't mean to be controversial, but this is a question that is perplexing me at the moment ever since I was reading a book that suggested God did die on the Cross. So Rather than just poll peoples personal opinions are there any scriptures that can shed some light on this question. I have put the question through Google, and I see some do answer it in the affirmative at least in regard to the Son dying. This is probably, whatever the answer, a profound mystery.

I am inclined to think God didn't die, however without denying Jesus is God incarnate, I think Jesus suffered and died (or experienced death) in his human nature?

Can anyone help me out on this?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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From my book "A Revelation of Who Jesus Is." (2012)

The Incarnation and the Emptying​

Philippians 2:6-7
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Vincents Word Studies:
“himself of no reputation “Lit., emptied Himself.

JBF
made himself of no reputation, and ... and — rather as the Greek,emptied Himself, taking upon him the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.” The two latter clauses (there being no conjunctions, “and ... and,” in the Greek) expresses in what Christ’s “emptying of Himself” consists, namely, in “taking the form of a servant.”

Gill
"nevertheless emptied himself"

Please review my expanded paraphrase:

Philippians 2: (C. Alan Expanded)
6. He was in the form of God (and therefore beyond all possibility of humility, suffering, and death), but he did not deem retaining the divine rights, power, and impassibility of such great importance that they should never (under any circumstances or for any purpose) be relinquished.
7. To the contrary, he divested himself (of those divine rights, power, and impassibility). He took to himself the functionality of a slave by submitting himself to mere human form with all its vulnerability, weaknesses, and dangerous possibilities!
8. Being reduced to the functionally a mere man, He became completely open to everything that only a mere man could be subject to and endure. He allowed himself to be humbled (as only a mere man could) to the end that he could come into full obedience to what God required, even when that requirement was his suffering and death - the death of the cross.

The Word/Son deemed retaining God's innate power, and glory was not as important as becoming human and subject to all those things a divine being could never be subjected to. He took on the “semblance” of a human and humbled Himself. In the context of the verse, this ultimately means allowing Himself to be subject to suffering, humiliation, and death. We Hold that He emptied Himself of only those things necessary to accomplish the desired goal; the redemption of humankind. In this case, those things were the glory associated with His divine being. In this, He humbled Himself and took on the opposite state, that of being a servant who could be subject to temptation, suffering, and death. If He was exalted after His work, it could only mean He was abased before it. His glory was restored to Him only because He willingly relinquished it.

John 10:17-18 KJV
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Beyond this, there is much speculation about what other attributes of His ability/nature He may have relinquished. Based on this passage in Philippians’ alone, there is no justification for saying He emptied Himself of anything beyond His “glory” and in so doing “humbled Himself” only to the extent that He made Himself vulnerable to temptation, suffering, and death. He did not divest Himself of divinity or any of the attributes of the divine.

“Grammatically, Paul explains the ‘emptying’ of Jesus in the next phrase: ‘Taking the form of a servant and coming in the likeness of men’”
Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary​

That the Word/Son emptied Himself of His pre-incarnate glory is evident from John:

John 17:5 LITV
5. And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the existence of the world.

Here the Son is calling upon the Father to restore to Him what he emptied Himself at the incarnation.

The NIV captures this sense by stating that He “made himself nothing” The Greek word kenόō literally means “to empty; to make empty; or to make vain or void,” “to abase, neutralize.” This word is rendered “made void” in Romans 4:14, where Paul stated that “faith is made void.”

Romans 4:14 KJV
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Their faith was neutralized. The word also includes that idea to abase:

Strong’s
G2758
κενόω
kenoō
ken-o'-o
From G2756; to make empty, that is, (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify: - make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain.

Returning to Philippians, we must remember to read this passage in the context that it was offered.

Philippians 2:5 ISV
5. Have the same attitude among yourselves that was also in the Messiah Jesus:

“Let this mind be in you.” We should count others as more important than ourselves. Despite whatever role or position in life, we might occupy, we should not count ourselves as so important that we fail to count others first.

Finally, we have to ask ourselves if this act by the Word/Son of making Himself vulnerable is not the single most important revelation of the Father that Jesus opened to us. Here is the center of the heart of the Father as revealed by Jesus. There is no evidence that The Son emptied Himself of any of the divine attributes such as Omnipresence, Omnipotence, or Omniscience. It is evident from the gospel accounts that He did not avail Himself of these attributes. In the context of the Philippian's account, He emptied Himself. That is, He poured Himself out into the position of a servant as opposed to being the ruling divine being.

Gordon Fee comments on this truth:
“Christ did not empty Himself of anything, the text simply says that He emptied himself, He poured Himself out.”

We compare this to the Isaiah prophecy:

Isaiah 53:12 KJV
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

In each of these references, Jesus is Himself poured out, thereby allowing Himself to be subject to death. In our book “The ‘God is in Control of Everything’ Myth,” we expand at length the significance and fuller meaning of the kenosis of Christ. It is not the intent of this study to present exhaustive teaching of the kenosis of Christ, only to establish that before the incarnate Word/Son could suffer and die, it was needful for Him to loose Himself of the Glory He had with the Father from the beginning.

N.T. Wright stated:
“The real humiliation of the incarnation and the cross is that the one who was himself God, and who never during the whole process stopped being God, could embrace such a vocation” (1986, p. 346).

Jesus left his divine rights, power, and impassibility behind and became a vulnerable man who could (possibly) humble himself and ultimately be exposed to and endure the humiliation, suffering, and death God required. He did not cease to be divine; He merely emptied Himself of all the rights and privileges that were due to Him as a divine. “Love does not seek its own.” Grace and love drove Him to the divesting of His divine rights, power, and impassibility because that is the only way His beloved Father’s dream of a Family could be achieved.
 
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"and you killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses." Acts 3:15

Because the divine and human natures are unified in one person, the attributes and experiences of one nature can be properly be referred to the other. Hence, we can say God died because the person died. In short, communicatio idiomatum.


We can hardly make sense of a verse like that above unless we view it through some Trinitarian understanding that assumes Christ is divine. It also helps to remember that Jesus states that he can lay down his own life and raise back up again.
 
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d taylor

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If people think of death as ceasing to exist, then no God did not die. As basically only people who believe when people die, they exist no more physically and spiritually. Believe in death of a person as a permanent cessation.

So for me i believe people die only physically and that they live on eternally. Now believers receive a new resurrected body, as Jesus did after His resurrection. Now non believers die a second death, which i believe means eternally separated from the life of God, but they do still exist.
 
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public hermit

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If people think of death as ceasing to exist, then no God did not die. As basically only people who believe when people die, they exist no more physically and spiritually. Believe in death of a person as a permanent cessation.

That's a helpful point. I don't think Jesus's death, or any human death, is traditionally viewed as a cessation of existence. But when people hear the phrase "God died" I think the impulse might be to think of it as such, which is odd. Jesus refers to God as the God of the living so that, although Abraham died, Abraham is alive. Hence, death is not a cessation of existence but a passage to another form of life.
 
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d taylor

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That's a helpful point. I don't think Jesus's death, or any human death, is traditionally viewed as a cessation of existence. But when people hear the phrase "God died" I think the impulse might be to think of it as such, which is odd. Jesus refers to God as the God of the living so that, although Abraham died, Abraham is alive. Hence, death is not a cessation of existence but a passage to another form of life.

I believe that is right. I was thinking now with the atheist view of they believe they cease to exist at death. I wonder if with the birth of athesim did the, did God die question arise.
 
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public hermit

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I wonder if with the birth of athesim did the, did God die question arise
Thats a good intuition. From what I gather, there was some usage of the phrase among German theologians and artists in reference to Christ's death, which Nietzche picked up on. He claimed that God was dead, meaning mostly that the Christian religion and European morality were dying, and he speculated over what would follow.
 
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BurningBush84

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If God died then that means he was annihilated. Never to exist ever again. But Jesus did die, yet he wasn't annihilated. Just more proof against annihilationism in my opinion. When Jesus said, "It is finished" he was still alive. Therefore the wages of sin isn't annihilation.
 
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Andrewn

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If God died then that means he was annihilated. Never to exist ever again.
Death is not annihilation. Death is a separation of spirit and flesh.

But Jesus did die, yet he wasn't annihilated. Just more proof against annihilationism in my opinion.
No one claimed that death is annihilation, except atheists. Christian annihilationists believe that annihilation of the unrighteous takes place not immediately at death but after the general judgment.

When Jesus said, "It is finished" he was still alive.
You're right about this. Normally people are alive when they speak!

Therefore the wages of sin isn't annihilation.
One may also conclude that the earth is flat and that camels are short-sighted.
 
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Clare73

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I don't mean to be controversial, but this is a question that is perplexing me at the moment ever since I was reading a book that suggested God did die on the Cross. So Rather than just poll peoples personal opinions are there any scriptures that can shed some light on this question. I have put the question through Google, and I see some do answer it in the affirmative at least in regard to the Son dying. This is probably, whatever the answer, a profound mystery.

I am inclined to think God didn't die, however without denying Jesus is God incarnate, I think Jesus suffered and died (or experienced death) in his human nature?

Can anyone help me out on this?
The humanity of the God/man died, his divinity did not.
His humanity was mortal, his divinity was not.
 
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BurningBush84

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Death is not annihilation. Death is a separation of spirit and flesh.


No one claimed that death is annihilation, except atheists. Christian annihilationists believe that annihilation of the unrighteous takes place not immediately at death but after the general judgment.


You're right about this. Normally people are alive when they speak!


One may also conclude that the earth is flat and that camels are short-sighted.

Oh but why would a loving God let his one and only son be tortured ? Why not just a quick painless death ?
 
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Clare73

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Oh but why would a loving God let his one and only son be tortured ? Why not just a quick painless death ?
Why death at all?

The loving God is also a perfectly just God, and justice requires that sin be punished.
 
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FireDragon76

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That's a helpful point. I don't think Jesus's death, or any human death, is traditionally viewed as a cessation of existence. But when people hear the phrase "God died" I think the impulse might be to think of it as such, which is odd. Jesus refers to God as the God of the living so that, although Abraham died, Abraham is alive. Hence, death is not a cessation of existence but a passage to another form of life.

That's how Christians in the medieval era traditionally understood the descensus in the creed ("He descended into Hell"). Some Reformed Protestants tried to turn it into a debate about whether Jesus suffered in Hell (and how much, etc.), missing the point that while Jesus death and descensus were a humiliation in one sense, it was not merely about punishment.

Even the Old Testament prefigures this, in Psalm 139:8.
 
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Thats a good intuition. From what I gather, there was some usage of the phrase among German theologians and artists in reference to Christ's death, which Nietzche picked up on. He claimed that God was dead, meaning mostly that the Christian religion and European morality were dying, and he speculated over what would follow.

It's more common language in Lutheranism, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy. But even more educated Reformed Protestants will recognize it is orthodox to speak of God's death on the Cross. The doctrine of communicatio idiomatum in particular is pertinent. In the person of Christ, God dies a human death.
 
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It's more common language in Lutheranism, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy. But even more educated Reformed Protestants will recognize it is orthodox to speak of God's death on the Cross. The doctrine of communicatio idiomatum in particular is pertinent. In the person of Christ, God dies a human death.

When I think of God's death on the cross, I immediately think of Jurgen Moltmann's The Crucified God, which is such a powerful book.
 
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FireDragon76

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When I think of God's death on the cross, I immediately think of Jurgen Moltmann's The Crucified God, which is such a powerful book.

Moltmann studied Bonhoeffer's writings, and it was a major influence. "The death of God" in Bonhoeffer's Letters and Papers from Prison is a significant part of his theology expressed there, and it's actually where the phrase gained alot of currency in the 1950's and 1960's to describe a certain kind of secular-oriented theology. It inspired theologians such as Bishop A.T. Robinson in his 1960's book, Honest to God, which was a rebuke of the Church of England's cultural conservativism.
 
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Andrewn

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Oh but why would a loving God let his one and only son be tortured ? Why not just a quick painless death?
I see it as Christ sharing with humanity all the pains we are subjected to. Some ancient authors speculated that Jesus, being God, could not have had a natural death. Through his passion, He as man becomes that He as God always is.

Heb 2:10 It was fitting that God, for whom and through whom all things exist, in bringing many children to glory, should make the pioneer/champion/leader of their salvation perfect/complete through sufferings. 11 For the one who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one Father. For this reason Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters,
 
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It is counter-intuitive that God can die. Yet, by adding to Himself a Human nature, He could experience death as a human. God cannot and did not die according to His His Divine Essence.

This sacrifice is very powerful because it was not for condemnation, but for redemption. God dies so all can live. A powerful mystery.
 
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