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is always a sin and represents evil (Darkness)
That would be only be true if those two option were the only possibilities. Yeah we could imagine and some indeed have, that something else existing "before creation" that created evil - an evil god perhaps. But that notion creates a different set of logical problems and is itself not the only other possible explanation for the existence of evil - which for the orthodox Christian world has NEVER layed with God - but on creature He made to love Him which He also made free to choose to do that or not (sin) - so while we could say God created a situation where evil is certainly possible (not a necessity) it was only those creatures choosing to first sin that made evil a part of our reality - and we continue to sin (creating more evil/darkness).Then your theory falls apart like a two dollar suit case. God is the Creator of all things. If He is not the origin of all things including evil, and sin, then we have another creator. And that presents a whole other problem.
But, I also see Him paying the price for all things evil, when He gave us His Son.
The wages of sin is Death, and He paid that price through Jesus Christ, when He took on the sin of The world.
Yes, that is exactly what was said - man, specifically Adam first - brought evil into the world along with the angels who rebeled. Angels were also given the same freedom. As far as I know all the posters here are human, so it would be both silly and also mean spirited to suggest a poster is excluding themselves from "mankind" when saying mankind sinned.Let me put it another way......are you the exception of not ever having rebelled or defied God?
Again only if insist upon discerning that meaning from those verses. So one can only say "Yep, God said it" if that were truly how the verse was meant to be understood.And guess who says they create that? Yep, God.
Isa_45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Again only if insist upon discerning that meaning from those verses. So one can only say "Yep, God said it" if that were truly how the verse was meant to be understood.
It is indeed a fact that some English translations render the verse "creates evil". No one is ignoring that fact in this thread or arguing about the various linguistic methodology to justify that English rendering. Some, including myself suggest it is not the best rendering, which is rather obvious when posters like the one above use it to support a distorted view of God and what it would mean to say God is Good.There is only one way it can be understood, the way it's written. You are re-writing it to suit your own version of God by ignoring that Ra is written in the masculine form. I have facts, you have opinions which ignore the facts. I see no reason why I should continue to correct your error on this since you refuse to accept it.
I think the main issue is the blind loyalty to a translation of the Bible that hasn't changed much over several thousand years rejecting the improvements modern translations have made and errors corrected. Let's face it a lot of problems with groups who call themselves Christians arise from a narrow doctrine that hinges on these "errors" with a mentality that rejects other translations that properly parse these scriptures like a plague. The fact that the NEW KJV (NKJV) version doesn't say God creates evil at all and most modern translations do not either means either these scholars are ALL idiots compared to those who did the KJV OR.... OR... they have better information.... OR... OR;.... are better educated....... OR... finally.. the notion presented has a different meaning to those who lived and spoke the KJV dialect back then.It is indeed a fact that some English translations render the verse "creates evil". No one is ignoring that fact in this thread or arguing about the various linguistic methodology to justify that English rendering. Some, including myself suggest it is not the best rendering, which is rather obvious when posters like the one above use it to support a distorted view of God and what it would mean to say God is Good.
We are not even ignoring or denying that one could look at that verse as it is rendered ("creates evil") and blindly conclude as the above poster does that God does evil. What is obviously being ignored in this thread however, is that God is Good and we can view "creates evil" in a way that does not violate the truth that God is Good. The same way the ECFs viewed that verse thousands of years ago and the same way the Jews who gave us this verse viewed it - as opposed to the abhorrent view which can only be understood as saying God is NOT Good (meaning not All Good - not Perfect).
If however we start as the above poster repeatedly and in blind faith does with the assumption that "creates evil" can ONLY be understood as saying God's Will directs His Mind towards anything besides Good - then we cannot attempt to ignore that that blind faith in that understanding of that verse means God is NOT Good - or at least not All Good. Which was Plato's point that the same poster summarily dismissed; that when we imagine a benevolent deity, we cannot hold that thought while also imagining that deity committing evil. It is one or the other, not both.
So one has to decide what is more previous to oneself I guess. The blind faith that the Bible declares to oneself that God is not absolutely Good or that God is Good. Ideally our Faith, which is a gift from God itself, should give us the clear picture that God is Good. So we cannot let a blind faith that we have adopted for ourselves on any matter (as the poster above does in their understanding of this verse's declaration to them) allow ANY doubt in our minds that God is Good.
So if we are going to allow a blind faith to declare something true - then at least have the honesty with oneself and everyone else to admit that blind faith in the declared opinion (opinion because it is not true that God create evil), means what it means - God is not All Good. Dropping that blind faith would not mean in this case that the Bible is in error, but that one's understanding gained from it was in error.
One could also be honest is attempting to defend that blind faith by not pretending that others are attacking the grammar of the verse or English rendering, by addressing instead the attack they are making on what that blind faith expression means - which God is not All Good. It is not enough to just say - well that is what it says so it must mean that and so you guys are just wrong. Especially when the attack is NOT that it does not literally say that, but it does not mean what the above poster blindly believes it to mean. So explain how God can be All Good while in our minds supposedly also doing evil.
God made free will. Those he made who had free will made evil (Lucifer)
God made Adam and Eve like him in every way . and then they conceived the idea of good and evil, Adam created evil, God gave Adam the capacity to do it.
Here is where you just don't get it, one could contend that creating good is doing good very easily, but trade the word evil for good and you reject the idea.Dr. Bubba,
To create evil and to Do evil, are two different things. I have tried numerous times to show you how this can be and you refuse to see it. We who do believe that it means what it says, understand that it is for the soul purpose of Revealing Hearts. Remember God also intentionally provoked Israel to Jealousy by another nation. He also moved David to number Israel, and raised up Pharaoh for the purpose of showing His power. God does all things after the council of His own will, not our free will.
Two thingsDr. Bubba,
To create evil and to Do evil, are two different things. I have tried numerous times to show you how this can be and you refuse to see it. We who do believe that it means what it says, understand that it is for the soul purpose of Revealing Hearts. Remember God also intentionally provoked Israel to Jealousy by another nation. He also moved David to number Israel, and raised up Pharaoh for the purpose of showing His power. God does all things after the council of His own will, not our free will.
Here is where you just don't get it, one could contend that creating good is doing good very easily, but trade the word evil for good and you reject the idea.
I believe I do get it and I agree that not everyone here does. What is said is indeed true.Here is where you just don't get it, one could contend that creating good is doing good very easily, but trade the word evil for good and you reject the idea.
Please first elaborate by explaining how doing pottery, making a clay pot and creating a clay pot are all different things and I will respond to the how the Truth in our reality that God made everything does not mean He made evil.
Saying God does not do/create/make the opposite of what He is, is not a claim that God does not know the potential and the actual outcome of what He will make before He makes it. That evil would be a potential (and not necessary as evidence of the bulk of angels still "with Him") would obviously be known by a Being we say has Perfect Knowledge. That Knowledge would also include knowing some of His created creature would make that potential reality, and His Knowledge would include exactly what He would do about that.There is no difference in making a pot or creating it. The difference comes after you have created or made it. For example, say you made something out of pottery that you thought was beautiful and had meaning, but when put on display for all to see, then it becomes "Subject to" all sorts of Evil, controversy, criticism, and yes even destruction. That's exactly what happened to God's Word, some say it's evil, it is much in controversy, it is up for criticism, and has been destroyed by some. By Creating us and the Creation itself, it has been made subject to all sorts of evil. But don't you think God Knew this before He chose to Create? Of Course He did, That's why He sent His Son. But again, this is how God creates evil and darkness, even though What He has in mind is far from what men see, because we exist and God created us and the world we live in, He knew in doing so it would also create evil by default.
Because our ways and our thoughts are not His.
Well some of us do absolutely believe (with true Faith) the Bible is Absolutely Infallible because of the evidence for Whom Inspired the writing and the collection of writing for it - just not in the blind faith way the people being mentioned mean infallible and inspired.People get the idea that God created evil because the Bible says so. But people also belive that God wrote an infallible Bible even though the Bible doesn't really claim that.
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