Did God commend or approve Rahab's lie?

[lismore]

Did God commend or approve Rahab's lie?

Hello Highlighter. I think a problem emerges when we try to become too legalistic and codify things far too much.

One action may be performed by two different people for two different motives of the heart, for one it may be a righteous act, for the other a sin. Because of the motivation of the heart.

At the end of the day God speaks of relationship with him, not a dead religion. He is your father, you are his child, it's not following an expanding set of precepts

God Bless

 

[Dorothy Mae]

There are two points there. The first is what He told his brothers--and yes, they were His spiritual enemy at that moment, just as Peter was in one moment.

I am very sure Jesus didn’t think his enemies were those who said in a moment something wrong. Very sure. His siblings weren’t his enemies. They didn’t believe at that point but it doesn’t make them enemies. Do you have only two categories, enemies or friends? Branch out.

The second is that Jesus hid His identity as He entered and moved around the city.

Not speaking is not a lie.

Leviticus 5 tells us clearly that it is not only a sin to bear false witness, but also a sin not to tell what one knows to be the truth.

No it doesn’t. Jesus himself says he had much more (truth) to tell but they weren’t ready. It is not a lie to not tell people what you know from God.

That would make Jesus a sinner...if and only if we ignore the specific context in which both the 8th commandment and Leviticus 5 are applied by scripture.

It is not a lie to not tell men all you know from God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hello Highlighter. I think a problem emerges when we try to become too legalistic and codify things far too much.

One action may be performed by two different people for two different motives of the heart, for one it may be a righteous act, for the other a sin. Because of the motivation of the heart.

At the end of the day God speaks of relationship with him, not a dead religion. He is your father, you are his child, it's not following an expanding set of precepts

God Bless

Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So you seem to suggest that while God would not approve of a lie, he is happy with misleading and deceptive practices so long as it is clever. That would seem to to embody a level of sophistry.

In Joshua 8, the Lord Himself told Joshua a battle tactic that was deceptive to defeat Ai. In John 7: Jesus implied by His words that He was not going to the feast of tabernacles, and then He went secretly and later showed up. This to some looks like a lie. The key is to examine His words more closely, and there is no contradiction in what He said. But a skeptic of the Bible will just read it as a contradiction in that He lied (When in reality He did not lie). In fact, if this was any other person besides Jesus, I can imagine it is possible that some folks would just say that this person lied because they don't want to be bothered to deeply examine what His Word says. We need to do the same with Rahab. But because she is a prostitute, most just assume she lied and they don't really try to come to her defense.

 

[Philip_B]

I have no issue with Rehab being a prostitute, nor do I mind a robust reading of scripture. I have mentioned situation ethics a couple of times, which you are happy to ignore or at least pass through to the catcher, and provide a theory of difference between clever misleading truth and lying as if one is more honorable than the other. If you want to ignore context and intent and rest righteousness on clever word play, then I will have to leave you to it. I am not skeptical about the Bible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have no issue with Rehab being a prostitute, no do I mind a robust reading of scripture. I have mentioned situation ethics a couple of times, which you are happy to ignore or at leastpass through to the catcher, and provide a theory of difference between clever misleading truth and lying as if one is more honorable than the other. If you want to ignore context and intent and rest righteousness on clever word play, then I will have to leave you to it. I am not skeptical about the Bible.

Well, I am not skeptical of what the Bible says, either. I believe every letter and word of my Bible. Do you? Unfortunately, most do not have a final word of authority (like the KJV) these days and they believe in a choose your own adventure Bible (by looking at a kaleidoscope of Modern Translations to piece together the Word of God to their own fancy). My guess is that you do not believe the KJV is the perfect Word of God today, so you look to what the Modern Translations or the original languages from the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus say (Which means there is no clear final word of authority).

Anyways, Rehab did not remain as a prostitute. That was her old life, and I do not have a problem of her being a prostitute if it was a part of her old life before coming to God by faith (of which is true). I mean, I get it. Many today really don't care about whether or not Rehab lied. We can see in the poll that many voted yes to God approving of Rehab's lie. This to me is unbelievable, but yet on the other hand, I know it speaks to the times that we are in. Nobody seems to care about sin anymore. It's all God's grace.

I already explained Joshua 2:5 in the fact that Rehab was referring to the two spies ultimate destination and how the NET translation, and Christian Standard Bible makes this fact clear. It is was true that she did not know where these two spies were truly headed as their end goal destination. This is not a lie, and her hiding the truth of their current whereabouts is merely hiding a truth, and not lying. Many people today seem to have a hard time understanding the difference between hiding a truth (Which is not a sin), vs. lying (saying something that is completely untrue). But then, people are happy to believe what their spiritual leaders say without questioning and they are happy to just go through the motions and live their life in the way they desire. There is no need to rock the boat. Jesus said that our own family can turn on us by our following Him. But many do not want to rock the boat, when they should be jumping out of the boat and swimming towards Jesus on shore (radically).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here is a point I made in post #3 that I feel needs to be shared again.

I would like to talk a little more about the second half of Rehab's words in Joshua 2:5 that were said to the guards in relation to the two spies.

In Joshua 2:5 (KJV), Rehab says to the guards,

"...pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them."​

Here the word "for" read from our perspective on this word sounds like Rehab was 100% confident that if they were to pursue after the two spies quickly, they will most certainly overtake them (Which would be a lie).

But when we look at the KJV Dictionary for the word "for," we can see a good number of definitions.
One such definition that could fit really well here to protect the innocence of Rehab is definition 7.
It says, "In advantage of."

Source:
FOR - Definition from the KJV Dictionary

Lets read these words from her with this in mind.

"...pursue after them quickly; for [to the advantage of] ye [you-all] shall overtake them."
(Joshua 2:5).​

In other words, she said,

"...pursue after them quickly and you shall take advantage in overtaking them."​

Which again is a true statement. For if they were truly quick or fast enough to pursue after the two spies, they could very well technically take advantage in overtaking them. But she is not saying they are fast or quick to pursue. She is merely saying that it is possible to overtake them if they are quick to pursue them. If they had men on their team who were expert super trackers, they would be quick to find them. Some folks are not really good trackers (i.e. quick to pursue those that they are looking for). She most likely realizes this fact. But she merely makes a statement that if they were super trackers, they would find them regardless of what she said.

So from a certain point view, these words by her are true, and not a lie.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And here is following repeated note in post #4 (that plays off post #3):

Here are a couple of translations that back this line of thinking in the KJV.

" I don’t know where they were going, but if you hurry, maybe you can catch them.” (Joshua 2:5) (CEV).

"Go after them quickly, and you might overtake them.”
(Joshua 2:5) (ISV).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So did Rahab lie?

James 2:25
“Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?”

Joshua 2:4-6
4 “And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:
5 And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out: whither the men went I wot not: pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them.
6 But she had brought them up to the roof of the house, and hid them with the stalks of flax, which she had laid in order upon the roof.”

Well, at this point: I now hold to two possibilities or positions on this, and I have abandoned the Art of War possibility (i.e. That it was not lying to deceive one’s enemies to save Israelite lives).

Granted, my second explanation (or position) I will attempt to explain or defend here (seeing it is my preferred explanation or possibility).
Anyways, here are my two explanations:

#1. Rahab lied, but it was not done for entirely selfish motives (but to protect others), and God was able to look past her transgression, and look to her faith because she may have later confessed of this sin of lying to the Lord.

#2. Rahab did not actually lie, but she used clever word play with the guards. There is a difference between declaring a person's current location that you last remembered, vs. declaring where a person is going or headed (of which you may not know). In other words, in Joshua 2:5, Rahab was telling the guards that she did not know the destination of where the two spies were going in regards to either their destination within the city, or their return destination, or some other headed destination, etc.; She basically said this as a form of distraction away from from the bit of information of her hiding them on top of her roof. The KJV is a little less clear on this fact in Joshua 2:5 unless you closely examine the word "whither" as meaning, "To what place, absolutely" and to understand that the definition of "went" is simply "the past tense of go." (Which can be interpreted as: "were going"). So Rahab's words to the guards would read like this:

"whither [i.e. To what place, absolutely] the men went [were going]
I wot [know] not:" (Joshua 2:5) (KJV).
​

As a matter of fact, even Modern Translations confirm this. In the Christian Standard Bible, Rahab says,

"I don’t know where they were going." (Joshua 2:5) (CSB).​

​

In the New English Translation, Rahab says,

"I don’t know where they were heading." (NET).​

​

This is not a lie to say that she did not know where they were headed to (i.e. Their ultimate destination). For it was true that Rahab had no clue where the two spies were headed. The last part of her words may seem also like a lie, but they are not. For she said, "pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them." (Joshua 2:5).

​

Again, taking these words a generic way can be interpreted as merely words of encouragement and not words of certainty that she was confident that her directions were going to truly help them. How so? Well, she is basically being like a cheerleader at this point. "You can do it, guys!" But she did not know if victory would be in their hands or not because she cannot predict the future. She is saying, "if you pursue or hunt for them quickly, you find them." "You can do it. Go guys." Just like a cheerleader cheers her team on to succeed (and yet she does not know the certainty of their success or not).​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In the King James, the word "whither" is key.

One definition that helps here is: "To what place, absolutely."

Below in blue is the words of focus here.

Joshua 2:3-8 KJV Says,

3 "And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country.
4 And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:
5 And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out: whither [i.e. To what place, absolutely] the men went [were going] I wot [know] not: pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them.
6 But she had brought them up to the roof of the house, and hid them with the stalks of flax, which she had laid in order upon the roof.
7 And the men pursued after them the way to Jordan unto the fords: and as soon as they which pursued after them were gone out, they shut the gate.
8 And before they were laid down, she came up unto them upon the roof;"​

She is basically saying to the guards, "To what place absolutely the men were going, I know not."

In other words, while Rahab knew that she had hidden these two spies on the top of her roof (i.e. they had went outside on the roof), she did not know whether they stayed on top of her roof or not, and she did not know where they were ultimately or absolutely headed in regards to their destination.

Two Modern Translations confirm this truth in the KJV.

"At nightfall, when the city gate was about to close, the men went out, and I don’t know where they were going. Chase after them quickly, and you can catch up with them!”"
(Joshua 2:5) (CSB) (Christian Standard Bible).​

It's true. She did not know where they were ultimately going or their destination.
So she was not lying about this. Her failing to give them the details about how she hid them on the roof was hiding a truth from them. She was using clever word play about talking about their ultimate place of returning back from where they came from.

"When it was time to shut the city gate for the night, the men left. I don’t know where they were heading. Chase after them quickly, for you have time to catch them!”"
(Joshua 2:5) (NET) (New English Translation).​

Again, it is a true statement that Rahab did not know where the two spies were headed (i.e. their end destination of return). This wording in Modern Translations again supports what is said with the word "whither" in the King James Bible.

For here are some interesting definitions for the word "whither" in the Macmillan Dictionary, that help to shed light on what could have possibly Rahab meant.

So based on this data, it is very possible that she simply did not lie at all, and she was using clever word play to protect them.


Sources used:
WHITHER - Definition from the KJV Dictionary
WOT - Definition from the KJV Dictionary
WHITHER (adverb) American English definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Rahab also stated told the guards that she did not know where the men were from.

She said,

“There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:” (Joshua 2:4) (KJB).

“Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from.” (Joshua 2:4) (NIV)​

This is a true statement. She did not in reality know the exact location of where these two spies came from. So she was not lying here.

Rahab also told the guards:

“And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out:” (Joshua 2:5).
​

Was this a lie?

Well, some may think Rahab is describing to the guards how she witnessed them going outside the gates at night. Others may think she was telling the guards about how the two spies left her home in the direction of the gates at dark. However, there is a chance she may not be saying this (Although the guards could have mistakenly read that into her words).

In this statement: There is a chance Rahab may not be lying again here.

Rahab could have merely said that at sundown (Which just so happens to be the time at the shutting of the gate) the guards had went out of her home (Which is true because she hid them outside on the roof). So again, there is a possibility here that she was not lying, but merely using clever word play with the guards.

Side Note:

It is also possible that Rahab may have had time to rehearse all of what she wanted to say to the guards so as to convince them and yet not lie.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I would like to talk a little more about the last part of Rehab's words in Joshua 2:5 that were said to the guards in relation to the two spies.

In Joshua 2:5 (KJV), Rehab says to the guards,

"...pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them."​

Here the word "for" read from our perspective on this word sounds like Rehab was 100% confident that if they were to pursue after the two spies quickly, they will most certainly overtake them (Which would be a lie).

But when we look at the KJV Dictionary for the word "for," we can see a good number of definitions.
One such definition that could fit really well here to protect the innocence of Rehab is definition 7.
It says, "In advantage of."

Source:
FOR - Definition from the KJV Dictionary

Lets read these words from her with this in mind.

"...pursue after them quickly; for [to the advantage of] ye [you-all] shall overtake them."
(Joshua 2:5).​

In other words, she said,

"...pursue after them quickly and you shall take advantage in overtaking them."​

Which again is a true statement. For if they were truly quick or fast enough to pursue after the two spies, they could very well technically take advantage in overtaking them. But she is not saying they are fast or quick to pursue. She is merely saying that it is possible to overtake them if they are quick to pursue them. If they had men on their team who were expert super trackers, they would be quick to find them. Some folks are not really good trackers (i.e. quick to pursue those that they are looking for). She most likely realizes this fact. But she merely makes a statement that if they were super trackers, they would find them regardless of what she said.

So from a certain point view, these words by her are true, and not a lie.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here are a couple of translations that back this line of thinking in the KJV.

" I don’t know where they were going, but if you hurry, maybe you can catch them.” (Joshua 2:5) (CEV).

"Go after them quickly, and you might overtake them.”
(Joshua 2:5) (ISV).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So in conclusion:

While I do hold to two possibilities on what happened with Rahab, I do tend to lean heavily on the possibility that Rahab did not even lie but she used clever word play with the guards. Her words were true, but they could be misread in the wrong way by her clever word play. So in short, it’s possible Rahab did not lie and so God commending Rahab for her faith for her sending out the spies another way would not have been a problem because her sending out the spies another way was not tied to any kind of lie. Anyways, whatever truly happened, I know for sure God did not commend Rahab for lying (if indeed she did lie).

I hope that what I have written here has been a blessing to someone reading here.

May God’s love and good ways shine upon you all greatly today.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

While I disagree with their interpretation on 1 John 1:8, I think the following video by Apologetics Press is a pretty good explanation involving Rahab.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Side Note:

Again, I wanted to bring up the point about how you don’t have to lie in order to save lives.

For example: If I was hiding Jews inside a secret chamber in my house, and Nazi’s showed up and asked me if I am hiding any Jews, I would tell them, “Do you see any Jews around here?” “I don’t see any Jews around here.” “Feel free to look around if you like, though.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Satan is the father of lies (John 8:44).
It is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:18).
So God could have never commended or condoned Rahab for lying.

Anyways, I hope this study blesses somebody today.

May the Lord keep you in His power and strength always.

 

[John Owen]

Did God commend or approve Rahab's lie?

He commended it.

James 2:25

In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

He considered her righteous. Never mentions the lie. I think that, like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the greater truth was protecting God's people, and not the evil people around her who intended to kill them. He did what we call a lie, but if you read his biography, you understand that he did not consider it a sin.

I do not consider her lie a sin.

 

[John Owen]

It's good to think what Jesus meant when He asked us to be wise/shrewd like snakes/serpents.

This is how Dietrich Bonhoeffer thought when he planned to kill Hitler and lied to many people, and justified it. Do you think God will judge him for plotting to kill Hitler and lying to the Nazis?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

He commended it.

James 2:25

In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

He considered her righteous. Never mentions the lie. I think that, like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the greater truth was protecting God's people, and not the evil people around her who intended to kill them. He did what we call a lie, but if you read his biography, you understand that he did not consider it a sin.

I do not consider her lie a sin.

If that is the case, then how can Satan be the father of lies (John 8:44)?
Surely God is not commending what Satan does.
Hebrews 6:18 says it is impossible for God to lie.
God commending a lie by somebody else seems inconsistent with God not lying.
This is where your belief starts to crumble.