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Amen!Yes, all of God’s Word is the law and prophets, which if we follow correctly will guide us in all Truth.
Unfortunately, we did not actually go through it.Seriously? We just went through this. I’m sorry Leaf you don’t seem to want to progress in God’s Word. You seem happy going in circles so I am going to bow out and please lets just leave it as we will need to agree to disagree and praise God this gets sorted out soon enough and I wish you nothing but the best and hope you find the Truth to God’s Word like we should all be seeking.
Do you not say that the letters of the tithing commandments that relate to the Levites have passed away from the law? Which of the above two things have happened?
__________Seriously? We just went through this and agreed we keep at least one of the Ten Commandments and we don’t sacrifice animals because the blood of Jesus can cleanse of us all sins according to the Word of God. At some point we should want to progress in God’s Word and staying in circles on things you seem to understand doesn’t make sense for me to continue in this discussion when there are lots of people earnestly seeking to understand God’s Word. I am going to bow out and please lets just leave it as we will need to agree to disagree and praise God this gets sorted out soon enough and I wish you nothing but the best and hope you find the Truth to God’s Word like we should all be seeking.
It's fine if you don't want to respond anymore, and peace be with you, my sister in Christ!I am going to bow out and please lets just leave it as we will need to agree to disagree...
letters do not come and go from scripture.. as it turns out.Okay... But did the letters of some of the tithing commandments pass away from the law?
I say that Heb 7 is true when it says the levitical priesthood ended. But Heb 7 does not say that this also ended the commandment to not take God's name in vain and in Eph 6:1-2 Paul affirms the ten flat out. As Jesus does in Matt 19 as Paul does in Rom 13 etc.
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" rather than "what matters is that the commandments of God were deleted as soon as Christ paid tithe".
Yes, all of the laws God has ever given man are moral as in moral
so when the Earth is destroyed in Rev 20 and 21 then the law against taking God's name in vain will be deleted in your view???No. I'm saying that as soon as
Heaven and Earth have passed away
and/or
All is fulfilled/accomplished,
then things can pass away from the Law.
But I'm curious about your input on that, Bob, my man.
Has any part of the law passed away from the law?
So your claim is that as soon as the Nazarine Carpenter paid tithe - then the law to not take God's name in vain ended along with all of God's Word all His commands?Again, not deleted, but fulfilled.
since we all see the Earth still here - your post above appears to affirm the obvious fact that "do not take God's name in vain" still remainsNo. I'm saying that as soon as
Heaven and Earth have passed away
Leaf473 said:
Do you not say that the letters of the tithing commandments that relate to the Levites have passed away from the law? Which of the above two things have happened?
How can I help you to see the oft repeated response at this point?I didn't see that he actually answered them, so I'm basically asking them again.
According to Isaiah 65 man only lives to over 100 and according to Jesus, man does not have a wife. Sabbath will become a lonely place huh.But not the moral laws of God which in the case of Sabbath begin in Gen 2:1-3 according to Ex 20:11 and have no ritual either in Gen 2 or in Ex 20:8-11. And as Is 66:23 applies for all eternity to all mankind in the New Earth.
Actually Bob, it doesn't matter when the Sabbath began, it was a ceremonial event. Why is it you cannot tell the difference between a moral law and a ceremonial event? Moral laws pertain to how we treat God and our fellow man. Sabbath had nothing to do with any harm we might commit against God or our fellow man. It was made for them to honor something that happened in the past. In Israel's case it was their release from bondage and the remembrance of creation. As with all the other commands of the ten, Sabbath was desecrated and became the ministry of death. If you really believe the Sabbath has to be KEPT, and do not do as commanded it becomes the ministry of death to you too. Is58:Your speculatin on that point does not appear to be inline with the texts just referenced above.
We agree in principle here. I think unfortunately this is where our agreement ends.I think it’s important to note that God separated His laws from the very beginning. Many want to lump all laws and commandments as one, when God did not.
I do not think We need to go beyond this one verse to look at New covenant teaching according to the law.This is an important distinction because once we get to the New Testament we see what exactly ended when Christ became our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins we won’t make the mistake of claiming “all laws” ended, when they did not.
Abraham obeyed covenant law in existence at a minimum 430 years prior to covenant law through Moses for Israel. The Horeb (in Moab) Covenant law was additional law which obviously was not before that time.Genesis 26:5
because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”
Deut 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.As a stated a number of pages ago - Heb 7 ended the Levitical priesthood at the cross - but that does not delete the command to not take God's name in vain.
How can I help you to see the oft repeated response at this point?
I guess thats a starting pointWe agree in principle here. I think unfortunately this is where our agreement ends.
The law is a generic term, it could be God’s Ten Commandment, it could mean the law of Moses the context of scripture tells us what its referring to if one allows the scripture to interpret itself. When God wrote His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant it is all the law Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:16 Jeremiah 31:33. The New Covenant goes on to explain itself, if allowed what changed. Jesus came to magnify the law Isaiah 42:21 and we see an example of how Jesus did so right from the Ten Commandments Matthew 5:19-30. Jesus often taught on the Ten Commandments and kept all of them as our example to follow. John 15:10, 1 John 2:6I do not think We need to go beyond this one verse to look at New covenant teaching according to the law.
First you say God did separate his laws from the beginning. Gal talks about covenants which are separated by 430 years. Further there was law which was added. Adding something means it was not covenant law prior to it being added.
The difference in the covenant is God made individual covenants with Abraham and God made a covenant with an entire Nation of Israel. Abraham still kept God’s commandments and laws. Genesis 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”Abraham obeyed covenant law in existence at a minimum 430 years prior to covenant law through Moses for Israel. The Horeb (in Moab) Covenant law was additional law which obviously was not before that time.
Each covenant had a sign Circumcision from Abraham
It would be nice if you posted scripture to back up your ideas. The Sabbath was from the very beginning. Genesis 2:1-3. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and man was created on the sixth day Genesis 1:26 right before the first Sabbath spent in the presence of God. God said the Sabbath is a sign between God and His people Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20 God only has one people and there is only one God. I don’t know about you, but I want to be one of God’s people and obeying the Sabbath brings the Lord delight Isaiah 58:13-14 because God said it is the day to keep holy Exodus 20:8 and the day we are to honor God. There will never be a time when God is okay with us breaking His commandments until the very end of time. Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14-15 God’s law is what points out sin 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes right from the Ten to define sin. Romans 7:7. The Sabbath is not an isolated commandment, its part of God’s holy commandments that God placed together and is the work of God alone Exodus 32:16 written by God’s finger Exodus 31:18 and we are told we cannot add or subtract from God‘s commandments Deut 4:2 or His Word. Proverbs 30:5-6 I think we need to trust the scriptures because it is a lamp to our feet. Psalms 119:105. There is someone out there who wants us to believe that we do not need to keep God’s commandments and delights in deceiving the whole world Revelation 12:17. I know which side of the battle I want to be on.Sabbath a sign for added law from Moses.
God tells Cain that SIN is crouching at his door in Gen 4 regarding his contemplation of anger and murder against his brother. God does not say "nothing is sin until Sinai".Deut 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Some do live that long -- did you want a thread on that topic?According to Isaiah 65 man only lives to over 100
Can you please post the scripture that says:I did
Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.Can you please post the scripture that says:
ralliann said:
Sabbath a sign for added law from Moses.
I didn’t see it
Exodus 31:18 Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. {holy: Heb. holiness }
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
And in Ex 20:1 God is the one that freed Israel from Egypt --- therefore "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7.... just for Jews in your POV?Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep:
God tells Cain that SIN is crouching at his door in Gen 4 regarding his contemplation of anger and murder against his brother. God does not say "nothing is sin until Sinai".
In other words - it was "always a sin" to take God's name in vain and that is not changed in the least by the fact that thousands of years after Adam and Eve - there is Sinai and a nation-covenant with Israel about making them a special people and a great nation.
no wonder then that
- The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
- The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
- C.H. Spurgeon
- D.L. Moody
- Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
- and almost every major Christian denomination
admits to this key and easy to see Bible detail.
Leaf473 said:
But I'm curious about your input on that, Bob, my man.
Has any part of the law passed away from the law?
Like this.. Every day alike, feast or no feast, every morning and evening the daily sacrifices and the ashes hauled out and more wood brought to keep burning on the alter, lamps trimmed etc.And in Ex 20:1 God is the one that freed Israel from Egypt --- therefore "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7.... just for Jews in your POV?
This is the "easy part" that almost all Christian denominations are on record as affirming
Heb 10 - animal sacrifices.
Now the questions you are not answering with a direct yes or no.
1. 1 Cor 7:19 - did the Holy Spirit make a mistake to say "circumcision does not matter...what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" when in your view either they both matter or they both do not matter and there can be no such distinction between them?
As for 1 and 2 They are really the same question. Why keep 9 of the ten?2. Ex 20:7 did the command to not take God's name in vain get deleted/abolished/ended/cease-to-apply (use what you wish) as soon as the Carpenter from Nazareth paid tithe???2. Do you ever wonder why it is that even those opposing the Sabbath in the quoted section above - do not join in such short sighted "solutions"?
Here we have our differences distilled down to 3 short questions to assist the reader of this thread.
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