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Destroying Evolution in less than 5 minutes

Warden_of_the_Storm

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Google allows one to search for information on the Internet. Researchers and scientists use Google quite a bit in these time to locate sources of information. As a courtesy I searched using Google, quickly checked the origin and noted the information was from Oxford Languages, and provided the link for all. The ultimate source of the information is what is important to the topic. You seem to be under some misconception. The definition is not owned by "Google" or "Google Search."

And Wikipedia does use the same information, if not more in-depth information than just a singular definition. It presents it in a more singular and easier to understand format, but the research used and the sources given, if you scroll down to the bottom of any page, can be reams and reams of it.

It's not the be all and end all of information, sure, but Wikipedia is a good starting point.

But let's try this a different way: what exactly about the definition given for scientific theory is wrong, incorrect or problematic to you that leads you to dismiss it?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Example: "fetus"

Webster: The young of viviparous animals in the womb, and of oviparous animals in the egg, after it is perfectly formed; before which time it is called embryo. A young animal then is called a fetus from the time its parts are distinctly formed, till its birth.

Oxford: The unborn offspring of a viviparous animal, particularly a human or mammal, during the later stages of development within the womb.

... They're both saying the same thing!

Webster: The young of viviparous animals in the womb, and of oviparous animals in the egg, after it is perfectly formed; before which time it is called embryo. A young animal then is called a fetus from the time its parts are distinctly formed, till its birth.

Oxford: The unborn offspring of a viviparous animal, particularly a human or mammal, during the later stages of development within the womb.

THEY'RE GIVING THE SAME DEFINITION!
 
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AV1611VET

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But let's try this a different way: what exactly about the definition given for scientific theory is wrong, incorrect or problematic to you that leads you to dismiss it?

From Amasci:

There is no single list called "The Scientific Method." It is a myth.

The rules of a science-fair typically require that students follow THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD, or in other words, hypothesis-experiment-conclusion. The students must propose a hypothesis and test it by experiment. This supposedly is the "Scientific Method" used by all scientists. Supposedly, if you don't follow the rigidly defined "Scientific Method" listed in K-6 textbooks, then you're not doing science. (Some science fairs even ban astronomy and paleontology projects. After all, where's the "experiment" in these?)

Unfortunately this is wrong, and there is no single "Scientific Method" as such. Scientists don't follow a rigid procedure-list called "The Scientific Method" in their daily work. The procedure-list is a myth spread by K-6 texts. It is an extremely widespread myth, and even some scientists have been taken in by it, but this doesn't make it any more real. "The Scientific Method" is part of school and school books, and is not how science in general is done. Real scientists use a large variety of methods (perhaps call them methods of science rather than "The Scientific Method.") Hypothesis / experiment / conclusion is one of these, and it's very important in experimental science such as physics and chemistry, but it's certainly not the only method. It would be a mistake to elevate it above all others. We shouldn't force children to memorize any such procedure list. And we shouldn't use it to exclude certain types of projects from science fairs! If "The Scientific Method" listed in a grade school textbook proves that Astronomy is not a science, then it's the textbook which is wrong, not Astronomy.

"Ask a scientist what he conceives the scientific method to be and he adopts an expression that is at once solemn and shifty-eyed: solemn, because he feels he ought to declare an opinion; shifty-eyed because he is wondering how to conceal the fact that he has no opinion to declare." - Sir Peter Medawar

There are many parts of science that cannot easily be forced into the mold of "hypothesis-experiment-conclusion." Astronomy is not an experimental science, and Paleontologists don't perform Paleontology experiments... so is it not proper Science if you study stars or classify extinct creatures?


Or, if a scientist has a good idea for designing a brand new kind of measurement instrument (e.g. Newton and the reflecting telescope) ...that certainly is "doing science." Humphrey Davy says "Nothing tends so much to the advancement of knowledge as the application of a new instrument." But where is The Hypothesis? Where is The Experiment? The Atomic Force Microscope (STM/AFM) revolutionized science. Yet if a student invented the very first reflector telescope or the very first AFM, wouldn't such a device be rejected from many school science fairs? After all, it's not an experiment, and the lists called "Scientific Method" say nothing about exploratory observation. Some science teachers would reject the STM as science; calling it 'mere engineering,' yet like the Newtonian reflector, the tunneling microscope is a revolution that opened up an entire new branch of science. Since it's instrument-inventing, not hypothesis-testing, should we exclude it as science? Were the creators of the STM not doing science when they came up with that device? In defining Science, the Nobel prize committee disagrees with the science teachers and science fair judges. The researchers who created the STM won the 1986 Nobel prize in physics. I'd say that if someone wins a Nobel prize in physics, it's a good bet that their work qualifies as "science."

Forcing kids to follow a caricature of scientific research distorts science, and it really isn't necessary in the first place.

Another example: great discoveries often come about when scientists notice anomalies. They see something inexplicable during older research, and that triggers some new research. Or sometimes they notice something weird out in Nature; something not covered by modern theory. Isaac Asimov said it well:
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I found it!) but 'That's funny...' "

This suggests that lots of important science comes NOT from proposing hypotheses or even from performing experiments, but instead comes from unguided observation and curiosity-driven exploration: from sniffing about while learning to see what nobody else can see. Scientific discovery comes from something resembling "informed messing around," or unguided play. Yet the "Scientific Method" listed in textbooks says nothing about this, their lists start out with "form a hypothesis." As a result, educators treat science as deadly serious business, and "messing around" is sometimes dealt with harshly.
 
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AV1611VET

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... They're both saying the same thing!

Webster: The young of viviparous animals in the womb, and of oviparous animals in the egg, after it is perfectly formed; before which time it is called embryo. A young animal then is called a fetus from the time its parts are distinctly formed, till its birth.

Oxford: The unborn offspring of a viviparous animal, particularly a human or mammal, during the later stages of development within the womb.

THEY'RE GIVING THE SAME DEFINITION!

Missed that tare, did'ja?
 
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AV1611VET

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BCP1928

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You don't need to.

Anyone should be able to critique it.
Why? Does it say in there that we have to take a dubious interpretation of Scripture into account when doing science?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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AV1611VET

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Why? Does it say in there that we have to take a dubious interpretation of Scripture into account when doing science?

If you can't back your science up with Scripture, there's nothing wrong with that.

You can't, for example, back up the formula for gravity with the Bible.

As long, though, as you don't contradict Scripture, you're okay.
 
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Lost4words

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AV1611VET

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What tare? The fact that Webster says that before it becomes a fetus it's an embyro which in the Oxford dictionary and any dictionary will be it's own separate definition, and which even in Webster's own dictionary it is?

I'm genuinely asking here since I have no idea how your mind works.

Webster: The young of viviparous animals in the womb, and of oviparous animals in the egg, after it is perfectly formed; before which time it is called embryo. A young animal then is called a fetus from the time its parts are distinctly formed, till its birth.

Oxford: The unborn offspring of a viviparous animal, particularly a human or mammal, during the later stages of development within the womb.


Notice how Oxford implies we are animals?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Webster: The young of viviparous animals in the womb, and of oviparous animals in the egg, after it is perfectly formed; before which time it is called embryo. A young animal then is called a fetus from the time its parts are distinctly formed, till its birth.

Oxford: The unborn offspring of a viviparous animal, particularly a human or mammal, during the later stages of development within the womb.


Notice how Oxford implies we are animals?

... because we ARE animals. In every biological sense, humans are animals, mammals specifically.

You definitely failed science class, didn't you?
 
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AV1611VET

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Warden_of_the_Storm

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AV1611VET

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Well if you failed basic biology then you would need to be reminded.

No.

I meant thank you for demonstrating how Satan's tares work.

You know -- he slips things in there that academians don't catch.

And by the time someone points it out to them, it's so ingrained into their mindset it's become a buzzword.

Or is it now "BIOLOGY CAN TAKE A HIKE"?

The 1828 Webster's Dictionary.

Best by test.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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No.

I meant thank you for demonstrating how Satan's tares work.

You know -- he slips things in there that academians don't catch.

And by the time someone points it out to them, it's so ingrained into their mindset it's become a buzzword.



The 1828 Webster's Dictionary.

Best by test.

Don't become a comedian, AV. You're just not really cut out for it.
 
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Hans Blaster

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That's a laugh; lets go back into our piles of old bones and see if we missed something. Surely there has to be connections between this bone and that bone. Oh and lets not forget about those "ghost" creatures that haven't had their bones found yet (and probably never will). There were multiple species of Homo; where did they come from; how did they get there.
The multiple species of Homo evolved, just like the only one that survives. Species split in two (or three) and then changed enough to become different. That's just basic speciation.
Yes, I see those many correct predictions made by archeologists - here today, gone tomorrow. Their guesses are as good as the next bone dug up out of the Earth. Here is what I hear from archeologists - it's hard to find intact bones because many don't survive the harsh conditions they were left in but from the bones we have we deduce that this is how evolution played out. Bravo!

archeologists don't study evolution or hominids.
 
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