Depression from a spirit filled & bible truth perspective

[Frogster]

He could have suffered physical pain, but be blessed spiritually in God's grace.

"And He said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore, I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong." (2 Corinthians 12:9-10)

So, Paul does not say that he takes "pain" in his troubles, but "pleasure". In God's grace we are in His own love having Heaven's own goodness and pleasantness so nicer and more satisfying than any pleasure which is physical of this life.

So, if there was pain, I can see it was only physical, as much as Paul was submitting to God in His grace with His personal guiding "continually" (Isaiah 58:11). There is a big difference between being saddened in God's love and being in the pain of my own ego > in God's love I can be saddened and disappointed because I care about what other people are going through; but in my own ego I can be getting depressed about how things are not going my own way. And the suffering in love is not nasty and messy and negative like my own ego's suffering can be. In love, I keep on having hope for people who are wrong and suffering > love "hopes all things", we have in 1 Corinthians 13:7.

In God's grace we can be angry and frustrated and somehow "depressed" about how things are going, but in His grace we are being guided what to do about it, including to love and do good for ones who are even enemies.

So, depression in human ego is not the same as some kind of "depression" in God's love. And we all have been born in sin; so any of us can have emotional trouble which has its roots in sin. Because in sinning we are involved with "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:2) This spirit of disobedience does have emotions, and those Satanic emotions are cruel and driving and won't take no for an answer . . . unhumble, bossy, dictatorial . . . often driving us to seek some physical pleasure to make us feel better.

But the emotions of God's love are gentle and humble like Jesus, with very pleasant rest and perfect satisfaction . . . even while we go through things that are very hard but they are truly "for Christ's sake" like Paul says.

So, am I always thankful and enjoying God? No. Yes, I can be reacting negatively to people and my circumstances . . . instead of first trusting God; and as much as I am like this, I can suffer deeply and be joy-dead. So, I take this to God, in prayer. And yes I need to have compassion on others who are suffering deeply . . . not to criticize and guilt-trip them but take them with me to God in prayer!!!

We,, not sure what your saying, but just like today, people get depressed in warfare. If things happen in battle, one can get depressed, because we can not separate the soul from the battle, the battle creates things that depress.

People get worn down..

The psalms show this, this Psalm says it was because of the enemy (red).Then we see how he felt in the (green), it was bad.



Psalm 55[a]
For the director of music. With stringed instruments. A maskil of David.

1
Listen to my prayer, O God,
do not ignore my plea;
2
hear me and answer me.
My thoughts trouble me and I am distraught
3
because of what my enemy is saying,
because of the threats of the wicked;
for they bring down suffering on me
and assail me in their anger.

4
My heart is in anguish within me;
the terrors of death have fallen on me.
5
Fear and trembling have beset me;
horror has overwhelmed me.

 

[Frogster]

fear .. as in timidity
ailments as in a mild digestion problem .. ,nothing to do with an intense depression.
what are you trying to say.. people should become abusers of alcohol ?of course not ..that would be misrepresenting what you said.. which is a stretch at best

Well, probably more than Timid, it mentions tears, and the fact that Paul talked a bit about it, proves there was an issue, Did he do that with Titus? nope..

again, I was not referring to the wine verse with Tim, and being depressed, etc, I used the verse to dhow that Paul went natural, and used medicine.

Again, it says ailments in the plural, Tim had more than stomache issue, and stress, depression, etc can get the stomache upset, there is text to show that.

I will not even validate your presumptive question about alcohol.

 

[Frogster]

No one knows what timothy suffered from but we do know that paul prescribed medication. Its all speculation. Its also speculation to suggest that if someone doesn't receive miraculous healing then its because they have weak faith. What about the faith of the elders? Didn't James say that the prayers of the elders would heal the sick? If a person is not healed then why dont we blame the church elders instead? Why blame the person who is already burdened? Why not blame the elders instead?

Another question- Why did God give some the power to heal, and give others no power to heal? Is it because some have stronger faith? Or is it instead to edify the church? If someone receives the gift of healing isn't it to help the church and not because they had strong faith? And if the point to having gifts was to help others then why do we instead hurt them by questioning their faith and casting a black shadow of doubt over them? Would it not be better for all members to be of the same mind and to love each other as themself? How can we be of the same mind if one's faith is better than another persons faith?

exactly! it is always the lack of faith on the ill person, the elder gets a free ride in the equation.

We could ask..."where is the faith of pastor?" Peter said we have been given a faith like his in 2 Peter 1,so where id pastor's faith to heal as Peter did?


Peter healed the guy in Acts 3 who seemed to not even be a believer, he had no NT verses to stand on, the text shows he was waiting for money at that moment, but Peter healed the guy without the faith of the lame man!

 

[Frogster]

i believe he gives the gift of heeling to them that believe HE heals .. and to them which are available to do his will when he is doing it . As none of us can heal but we can administer "HIS" healing .
but then this topic is not about "healing" but about how to avoid falling victim to a despondency so great that it overwhelms us i the first place .

im not sure why some are so centered on one tiny verse where Paul says timothy should have a little wine for his stomachs sake ( which again only implies aiding digestion as tannins in red wine is known to be quiet helpful that way) And yet they are throwing that up as justification for what ? well ,actually, for trusting mans chemical medications more the Gods word .
and they throw up that one verse ..
Honestly ? its like saying of the 99.99% of words in the scripture about trusting God we will only listen to the 00.01% about the one time some one suggested a little wine .. and it was not for chronic depression to boot ..

because the wind verse goes with the thread, paul used the natural medicine of his day.

Paul did not always heal.

2 Tim 4:20 Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus.

 

[Frogster]

What i have shared has helped me in my struggle with depression. I wanted to share it thinking perhaps it may help someone. Im sorry you dont find it helpful. My intent is about hope. The examples of the prophets and apostles suffering bouts of depression actually gave me hope. It made me feel like i was not abandoned by God but that there was purpose in my struggles. I am no longer bound to depression and i have learned to manage it. There is hope.

exactly, in Paul's sufferings, he taught the corinthians in 2 Cor 1 how to have mercy/comfort, by the mercy Paul had, as they suffered too.

Paul was comforted when he got depressed in 2 Cor 7, and he learned how to comfort, and others did too, so your post is right on, and appropriate to the thread.

 

[Frogster]

Yes, I agree... I think this demonstrates the power of humanism in the church. It is much easier to say the doctor will handle it, because the other requires great faith and perseverance.

IMHO

So depressed people have no faith? it is not good to have a harsh spirit in the churches.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

exactly, in Paul's sufferings, he taught the corinthians in 2 Cor 1 how to have mercy/comfort, by the mercy Paul had, as they suffered too.

Paul was comforted when he got depressed in 2 Cor 7, and he learned how to comfort, and others did too, so your post is right on, and appropriate to the thread.

I agree.

I think that there was a specific reason why God chose not to heal the thorn in Paul's side.

Notice that God CHOSE NOT TO HEAL, for those whose position is that God ALWAYS HEALS. That position is not biblical.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

ToBeBlessed I am still waiting on your answer to my question as per frog...

Is all depression the same?

Does the person having a bad day have the same "depression" as someone like yourself who has dealt with it for a lengthy time?

BTW the thorn in Pauls side was not a physical ailment, it was a messenger of Satan. Messengers are typically not physical injuries...

 

[Frogster]

do not be distracted by one misquoted out of context verse about wine for a stomach ache ...
look to the word of god and be overwhelmed with Hope ..put your faith in HIS word..grasp a hold and do not let go .but persevere,, for whatever state you are in..

you deliverer Comes
-ONLY BELIEVE-



Psalm 34:17
When the righteous cry for help, the Lord hears and delivers them out of all their troubles.

Psalm 50:15
And call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.

Psalm 34:4
I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.

James 5:16 esv
Therefore, confess your sins(faults ,failings weaknesses) to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

Galatians 5:1
For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

John 8:32
And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

2 Peter 2:9
Then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials.............

John 15:7
If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

Psalm 40:17
As for me, I am poor and needy, but the Lord takes thought for me. You are my help and my deliverer; do not delay, O my God!

Matthew 10:1
And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction.

Psalm 40:9-10
I have told the glad news of deliverance in the great congregation; behold, I have not restrained my lips, as you know, O Lord. I have not hidden your deliverance within my heart; I have spoken of your faithfulness and your salvation; I have not concealed your steadfast love and your faithfulness from the great congregation.

--such words of hope and faithfulness go on and on and on .. the lord is YES and AMEN.

take heart ,be of good cheer .for if the lord is with you ,who can be against you .

what does gal 5:1 have to do with this? that was about not getting under law bondage.

So again, would you say this to a a woman in a wheelchair? Or to anyone who had an illness for years, blind, deaf, etc?

What is she to do in the meantime if she is not healed, pretend she has no chair?

If your house were on fire, would you call upon the Lord, or call 911?

I could ask, if you called 911 using the natural, "where is your faith"

Basically your posts set up a standard that can't always be reached, or else why are there poor people and ill people by the millions in the church. Do they not have faith?

What you apply to the depressed, you must apply to the poor and ill in our churches, and wow..talk about getting more people depressed, by blaming their lack of faith or lack of the excercise of faith!

 

[Frogster]

That's your opinion. There has been much testimony from believers with clinical depression that that surprises me.

Despair is an emotion that many people even those in the bible felt. To not discuss the whole bible and to dismiss parts of it would not be learning what God intents for us to learn.

exactly, it is comforting to see that the greats, had depression, then people don't feel alone, like they are not spiritual or something. We see that already by a member here, who is comforted seeing this Biblical truth.

 

[Frogster]

I use to be addicted to certain controlled substances but i have since then got away from that addiction and it was difficult. If someone suggests that taking meds for depression is not faith then isnt that the same as condemning them?

every post you make is good, you get poster of the year award!

 

[Frogster]

That is wonderful.

However, in this thread the OP and title specifically discuss 'depression'.

Depression when it is clinical is a physician diagnosed medical problem. When one Christian can judge another on faith or any other criteria as a way to treat a medical prognosis, I think the believer has gone past any teaching or care for another and moved into an area of judgment.

As the OP themself has been the one to bring medication and doctors into the conversation, now the conversation includes that as a talking point.

How can one Christian judge another's faith or relationship with God when the person is taking care of themselves or their family''s medical needs. All our decisions include faith, but the testimony of many has been that the Lord has chosen not to heal?

you get poster of the year award too!

 

[Frogster]

again.. no one has .its just a distraction to bring it up .

i was an Unprescribed meth addict,the knowledge of god kept me from being suicidel ... God set me free .in a single moment . there is fullnes of Hope in him .why would i judge other when in some instance i was worse then they . so we can drop the judgment angle .

consider carefully what we share .. i will maintain and continue to share that the Lord JESUS is the sure way out of chronic depression and the sure hope of salvation ...
i think it would be a travesty of his truth to cause any to doubt that , because it means to doubt the absolute truth of who the lord JESUS is .

there is hope in him for all and any .. who will but believe

great, you were set free fast, others have to wait, just like bodily healings, some wait years, then they are healed, but in the meantime, if meds help, and are needed, that is fine,

 

[ToBeBlessed]

ToBeBlessed I am still waiting on your answer to my question as per frog...

Is all depression the same?

Does the person having a bad day have the same "depression" as someone like yourself who has dealt with it for a lengthy time?

BTW the thorn in Pauls side was not a physical ailment, it was a messenger of Satan. Messengers are typically not physical injuries...

I am not going to interfere in your conversation, but I will clarify what I know about depression.

Depression is a word that carries multiple meanings depending on who you ask. To one person, depression can mean sadness, to another like myself, acute, clinical depression is a whole other thing entirely. Clinical depression is a medically diagnosed condition that is diagnosed by a physician. It has to do with the body and which endorphins is does and does not release. Similiar to a diabetic whose insulin is unregulated. When the body is failing to do this it is problematic for the person whose body is not functioning correctly. The basis of All medical problems is something that does not function correctly.

That is what I know.

For anyone not to look at this discussion using all the facts and in anyway put the idea out there that this is tied to faith and unbelief is wrong. But then blanket statements are rarely right.

I hope that the Lord uses my truthful testimony and others in this thread to show that we all walk in faith and not by sight because what we see is often inaccurate.

 

[Frogster]

I agree.

I think that there was a specific reason why God chose not to heal the thorn in Paul's side.

Notice that God CHOSE NOT TO HEAL, for those whose position is that God ALWAYS HEALS. That position is not biblical.

Exactly.depression is not allowed in most churches, it is a taboo.

 

[Frogster]

ToBeBlessed I am still waiting on your answer to my question as per frog...

Is all depression the same?

Does the person having a bad day have the same "depression" as someone like yourself who has dealt with it for a lengthy time?

BTW the thorn in Pauls side was not a physical ailment, it was a messenger of Satan. Messengers are typically not physical injuries...

he mentioned infirmities in 2 cor 12:10, separated by a comma, so it was more than afflictions, besides, how could a cold, hungry, floating at sea, with wounds and scars, sleepless, on the run type of person not get sick because of the thorn ramifications?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Exactly.depression is not allowed in most churches, it is a taboo.

It is worse than taboo. It is viewed as a failing on the part of the believer. It is very hurtful to those who experience it. So hurtful that many do not go to church because they feel inadequate.

Believers who feel inadequate in church.? That should be the norm. We are all inadequate in ourselves.

Believers judging believers never goes well, IMHO. We just don't have enough information. We do not knowthe heart.

 

[Frogster]

i believe he gives the gift of heeling to them that believe HE heals .. and to them which are available to do his will when he is doing it . As none of us can heal but we can administer "HIS" healing .
but then this topic is not about "healing" but about how to avoid falling victim to a despondency so great that it overwhelms us i the first place .

im not sure why some are so centered on one tiny verse where Paul says timothy should have a little wine for his stomachs sake ( which again only implies aiding digestion as tannins in red wine is known to be quiet helpful that way) And yet they are throwing that up as justification for what ? well ,actually, for trusting mans chemical medications more the Gods word .
and they throw up that one verse ..
Honestly ? its like saying of the 99.99% of words in the scripture about trusting God we will only listen to the 00.01% about the one time some one suggested a little wine .. and it was not for chronic depression to boot ..

but the wine verse shows Paul using natural medicine to boot. That was the point of the usage of that verse.

Ok, since depressed people should not go on meds according to some. Should a diabetic, or a heart patient stop taking their meds today, "by 'faith"?

A simple yes or no will do please.

 

[Frogster]

It is worse than taboo. It is viewed as a failing on the part of the believer. It is very hurtful to those who experience it. So hurtful that many do not go to church because they feel inadequate.

Believers who feel inadequate in church.? That should be the norm. We are all inadequate in ourselves.

Believers judging believers never goes well, IMHO. We just don't have enough information. We do not knowthe heart.

I know, some churches damage big time! funny thing is, it's ok for the angry preachers to be in the church though, that is allowed!

 

[Frogster]

This is an important thread question, to all who say no meds..


Since depressed people should not go on meds according to some. Should a diabetic, or a heart patient stop taking their meds today, "by 'faith"?