Denying Jesus

[Leaf473]

I never accused anyone, many who worship on sunday do so to follow the others who do so.

Many were told wrongfully it was o.k. but the fact is it is not what GOD said.

Well... When someone believes in Jesus, God puts his teachings about the Sabbath in their mind,
and writes them on their hearts, doesn't he?

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 8:10 - New Century Version

This is the agreement I will make with the people of Israel at that time, says the Lord. I will put my teachings in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

www.biblegateway.com

No one has the right to change God's laws. for the rest where you discuss Ellen white I will not comment as I do not know her work and is is not part of this discussion on this thread. I believe there is a section on the forum for SDA , if you have questions why not ask them directly.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Hi BelieveitOarKnot,

I appreciate what you're saying, but I'm not seeing how you're tying this in with your response to the opening post. Are you denying that it's possible for those who claim to know God to deny Him?

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

There are 2 parties walking in the same pair of shoes: Mark 4:15

 

[BNR32FAN]

That’s what people do with Paul’s writings too when they don;t really know them and just pluck out a verse here or there

Here’s some more of Ellen White’s wisdom. This is from a compilation book called Counsels on Diet and Foods in a chapter called “A Pitiful Offering”.

But God is all-pitiful, gracious, and tender, and when light comes to those who have injured their health by sinful indulgences, and they are convinced of sin, and repent and seek pardon, He accepts the poor offering rendered to Him, and receives them. Oh, what tender mercy that He does not refuse the remnant of the abused life of the suffering, repenting sinner! In His gracious mercy, He saves these souls as by fire. But what an inferior, pitiful sacrifice at best, to offer to a pure and holy God! Noble faculties have been paralyzed by wrong habits of sinful indulgence. The aspirations are perverted, and the soul and body defaced.

Counsels on Diet and Foods

m.egwwritings.org

This chapter follows the chapter called “An Unblemished Offering”. The “pitiful offering” is intended to be in contrast to the “unblemished offering”. According to Ellen White if we repent and start observing the dietary laws when we present ourselves as a sacrifice to God we are poor, inferior, and pitiful offerings because our body and soul has been defaced.

According to Jesus it’s not what goes into the body that defiles us but what comes out that defiles us.

According to Paul Jesus will present us before the Father Holy and blameless, beyond reproach as long as we remain steadfast in our faith in the gospel.

According to Ellen White we’re not unblemished as a result of Christ’s atonement we can only be unblemished by adherence to the dietary laws.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I never accused anyone, many who worship on sunday do so to follow the others who do so. Many were told wrongfully it was o.k. but the fact is it is not what GOD said. No one has the right to change God's laws. for the rest where you discuss Ellen white I will not comment as I do not know her work and is is not part of this discussion on this thread. I believe there is a section on the forum for SDA , if you have questions why not ask them directly.

You’re still ignoring Colossians 2:16. Colossians 2:16 isn’t written by “people who followed others”. You keep on repeating this statement that no one can change God’s laws but guess what, God has changed His own laws SEVERAL TIMES. Did the apostles change the law concerning circumcision? Did Paul change the law concerning the New Moon Feasts? Did Paul change God’s laws concerning the sabbath days? Did Paul change God’s laws regarding food or drink? Did Moses change the law given to Noah to eat anything that moves? God changes His laws how He sees fit.

“When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭13‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

You tell me who made this decision to abolish the laws concerning food and drink, the New Moon feasts, and the sabbath days?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Here’s some more of Ellen White’s wisdom. This is from a compilation book called Counsels on Diet and Foods in a chapter called “A Pitiful Offering”.

But God is all-pitiful, gracious, and tender, and when light comes to those who have injured their health by sinful indulgences, and they are convinced of sin, and repent and seek pardon, He accepts the poor offering rendered to Him, and receives them. Oh, what tender mercy that He does not refuse the remnant of the abused life of the suffering, repenting sinner! In His gracious mercy, He saves these souls as by fire. But what an inferior, pitiful sacrifice at best, to offer to a pure and holy God! Noble faculties have been paralyzed by wrong habits of sinful indulgence. The aspirations are perverted, and the soul and body defaced.

Counsels on Diet and Foods

m.egwwritings.org

This chapter follows the chapter called “An Unblemished Offering”. The “pitiful offering” is intended to be in contrast to the “unblemished offering”. According to Ellen White if we repent and start observing the dietary laws when we present ourselves as a sacrifice to God we are poor, inferior, and pitiful offerings because our body and soul has been defaced.

According to Jesus it’s not what goes into the body that defiles us but what comes out that defiles us.

According to Paul Jesus will present us before the Father Holy and blameless, beyond reproach as long as we remain steadfast in our faith in the gospel.

According to Ellen White we’re not unblemished as a result of Christ’s atonement we can only be unblemished by adherence to the dietary laws.

Jesus wasn’t referring to food in Mat 15 as He clearly states

He was referring to eating with unwashed hands Mat 15:1-2 and said that is not what defiles a man and then goes on to explain the illustration which was not about foods as He clearly states

Mat 15:17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

Its why at His Second Coming, it doesn’t appear He changed His mind

Isa 66:17
“Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
[a]After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.

This doesn’t say thus saith Ellen. Our bodies are a temple to the Holy Spirit and we must not defy them in what we eat and by sin.

Perhaps thats why SDA’s were singled out as one of the longest living people In the US in the Blue Zone study

Why Loma Linda residents live longer than the rest of us: They treat the body like a temple

It's not a bathing-suit body that Daniel and Vicki Fontoura and their neighbors are after as they go about their days in perhaps the healthiest community in the United States.

www.latimes.com

Loma Linda, California

The Seventh-day Adventist church in this sunny pocket of Southern California was founded in the 1840s. The church flourished through the 20th century –

www.bluezones.com

Here’s an interesting video from a Sunday pastor who calculated how many years God gave back for keeping the Sabbath. Sadly he thinks he can apply that to a day God did not santify or bless, but thats not how God’s blessings work.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not in respect to the word of God it doesn't. The context is about differing opinions and not the word of God. That is what verse 1 states SPECIFICALLY. And verse two collaborates with this premise.
How do we know? Because it mentions only eating herbs. Nowhere in scripture does it ever state that we can only eat herbs. Though an opinion can be derived from the fact that fruit, nuts, and grains were the original diet. And the fact that Daniel only ate such and He was the better for it.


Rom 14:1 Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables.
Rom 14:3 The one who eats everything must not despise the one who does not, and the one who abstains must not judge the one who eats everything, for God has accepted him.

Ok then explain this portion of the message

“I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles. The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭14‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Why is nothing unclean except to the one who thinks it’s unclean? In the passage both the one who eats and the one who doesn’t eat are both acceptable to God?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Perhaps thats why SDA’s were singled out as one of the longest living people In the US in the Blue Zone study

Why is that study limited to the US? Is God not blessing SDA members in other countries?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why is that study limited to the US? Is God not blessing SDA members in other countries?

Really? The study was done in the US, it doesn’t say one way or the other about SDA’s outside the US, but that doesn't mean God is not blessing them too. I guess if we only focus on the negative thats what we are going to find.

Thanks for the chat, guess its time to move on, but I wish you well..

 

[HIM]

Ok then explain this portion of the message

“I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles. The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭14‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Why is nothing unclean except to the one who thinks it’s unclean? In the passage both the one who eats and the one who doesn’t eat are both acceptable to God?

The Greek word there is koinos translated unclean. It should be translated common as it is in Peters vision where the word for unclean is also. Take note while you look at the text in Acts. God never said He cleansed the unclean. He only mentions the common.


Acts 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Acts 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus wasn’t referring to food in Mat 15 as He clearly states

He was referring to eating with unwashed hands Mat 15:1 and said that is not what defiles a man and then goes on to explain the illustration which was not about foods as He clearly states

Mat 15:17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

Its why at His Second Coming, it doesn’t appear He changed His mind

Isa 66:17
“Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
[a]After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.

This doesn’t say thus saith Ellen. Our bodies are a temple to the Holy Spirit and we must not defy them in what we eat and by sin.

Perhaps thats why SDA’s were singled out as one of the longest living people In the US in the Blue Zone study

Why Loma Linda residents live longer than the rest of us: They treat the body like a temple

It's not a bathing-suit body that Daniel and Vicki Fontoura and their neighbors are after as they go about their days in perhaps the healthiest community in the United States.

www.latimes.com

Loma Linda, California

The Seventh-day Adventist church in this sunny pocket of Southern California was founded in the 1840s. The church flourished through the 20th century –

www.bluezones.com

Here’s an interesting video from a Sunday pastor who calculated how many years God gave back for keeping the Sabbath. Sadly he thinks he can apply that to a day God did not santify or bless, but thats not how God’s blessings work.

You say He wasn’t referring to food but that doesn’t necessarily make it true because Paul says in several places that food & drink doesn’t defile a person. Colossians 2:16 you should be very familiar with that verse. Romans 14 nothing is unclean in itself, for the Kingdom of God is not food or drink. 1 Corinthians 10:25-27 eat anything that is sold in the market or that is placed before you without question.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Greek word there is koinos translated unclean. It should be translated common as it is in Peters vision where the word for unclean is also. Take note while you look at the text in Acts. God never said He cleansed the unclean. He only mentions the common.


Acts 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Acts 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Again you’re quoting half of the message. What was God’s response? EAT, do not call unclean that which I have made clean.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Greek word there is koinos translated unclean. It should be translated common as it is in Peters vision where the word for unclean is also. Take note while you look at the text in Acts. God never said He cleansed the unclean. He only mentions the common.


Acts 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Acts 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

And you didn’t answer my question, why are both approved by God?

 

[HIM]

Again you’re quoting half of the message. What was God’s response? EAT, do not call unclean that which I have made clean.

Are you okay. He never said that. He said what God has cleanse call thou not common.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There are many illustrations in scriptures. Col 2:16 does not say we can eat unclean foods, it is reading that into the scripture which we are told not to do. It’s not even referring to food, but food and drink offerings and annual holy days (feast days) that some of them were annual sabbath(s). I can provide an in-depth study of this if anyone is interested.

Eze 22:16 Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.

We can do or eat anything we want, it doesn’t mean there are not consequences in doing so. Adam and Eve ate what they weren’t suppose to, they and we are paying the consequences.

 

[Icyspark]

Well, in the opening post, you write

I take your statements to mean that if we don't follow the teachings of Jesus, do what he said to do, then we are denying him.

One of the things that Jesus said to do was to listen to the scribes and the Pharisees.

Another thing Jesus said to do was to show yourself to the priest when your skin condition improves

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 8:4 - New Century Version

Then Jesus said to him, “Don’t tell anyone about this. But go and show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded for people who are made well. This will show the people what I have done.”

www.biblegateway.com

Hi Leaf473,

It seems to me you're trying to find fault with the words of Jesus so you don't have to abide by the words of Jesus?

What do you suppose Jesus meant when He said to listen to the scribes and Pharisees? I need to more fully understand your position before I can address it.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Icyspark]

There are 2 parties walking in the same pair of shoes: Mark 4:15

And what if there were no hypothetical questions?

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

This thread had completely derailed, it has turned into an hostile medieval inquisition about SDA. I can no longer participate on this thread.

Blessings

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

And what if there were no hypothetical questions?

You have to buy into the fact that we're tempted internally by the tempter

Most simply have no clue, because of the fact

 

[Leaf473]

Hi Leaf473,

It seems to me you're trying to find fault with the words of Jesus so you don't have to abide by the words of Jesus?

No, I'm not trying to find fault with the words of Jesus. I'm showing how he lived under the old Covenant and taught people who were also under the old Covenant.

So we pay attention to some of the things that Jesus said, and imitate some of the things that he did.

Realizing that not everything he said is for today is not denying Jesus, neither is not doing the same actions he did.

Bible Gateway passage: John 7:10 - New Century Version

But after Jesus’ brothers had gone to the feast, Jesus went also. But he did not let people see him.

www.biblegateway.com

What do you suppose Jesus meant when He said to listen to the scribes and Pharisees? I need to more fully understand your position before I can address it.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Back then, most people couldn't read. Copies of the law of Moses were all handwritten, and very expensive.

But the scribes and the Pharisees had access to those expensive scrolls, and could read them. So I think Jesus is saying to listen to what they have to say, just don't do the things that they're doing.

But today is very different. Today we don't need to look for a Jewish rabbi to read us the law. So the situation is different, that's another teaching of Jesus that we're not going to follow... At least we're not going to follow it to the letter. We can follow the principle

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 119:105 - New Century Version

Your word is like a lamp for my feet and a light for my path.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Bob S]

why do you test me?

About these laws ( other than the 10 commandments) I know of them but not know them very well since I am not Jewish.

The greatest commands ever given are not found in the Ten Commandments. The love commands are found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Paul wrote that the Ten Commandments were temporary. They were the laws of the old covenant which ended at Calvary.

But I know that some of them can be useful, I know also that some can no longer be applied, like the laws concerning the sacrifices since Jesus fulfilled them with his life, His Blood and suffering so we can obtain eternal life.
Jesus is the only way to eternal Life. This is what he wants for all of us.

How could some of them not apply if you don't believe Jesus fulfilled them? Matt says not one jot or one tittle would pass from the Law until all is fulfilled. You cannot just cherry-pick the laws you want to observe.

The question I ask is did Jesus bring to an end the prophecies concerning Himself? If you agree He did then you also have to agree He ended the Law.