You're using "the finger of God" line to elevate the 10 commanents outside their covenent theybare created in. So the question is, does this in fact do what you are saying it does?
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You're using "the finger of God" line to elevate the 10 commanents outside their covenent theybare created in. So the question is, does this in fact do what you are saying it does?
Ok we need to actually discuss this in it’s entirety because every time you make this statement I prove you wrong and you just ignore it.
Exactly and 2 Corinthians 3 explains that. Thats what the entire chapter is about and he even specifically refers to the commandments that were written in stone.You're using "the finger of God" line to elevate the 10 commanents outside their covenent theybare created in. So the question is, does this in fact do what you are saying it does?
Exactly and 2 Corinthians 3 explains that. Thats what the entire chapter is about and he even specifically refers to the commandments that were written in stone.
The same logic would apply to the Book of LeviticusThe argument actually is do we believe God or not. God gave the Ten Commandments written by His own finger Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16 on His Authority, that not even Paul has authority to countermand a commandment of God and change one jot or tittle.
Paul's writings came with a stern warning 2 Peter 3:16 for good reason.
People claim the weekly Sabbath commandment that is holy and blessed by God ended at the Cross but that's not what Col 2:14KJV and Col 2:17 says which gives the context to Col 2:16 that no one ever quotes for some strange reason.
People claim the weekly Sabbath commandment ended at the Cross, but not for God's faithful Luke 23:56. If Jesus was going to end a commandment He would have said something to someone and an argument from silence is never a good idea especially when we are ignoring what Jesus did say, the Sabbath is made for man Mark 2:27 because man can't bless or sanctify themselves Isa 56:1-6 Eze 20:12 we need God..
Jesus in His own Words said the Sabbath would be kept by His faithful decades after the cross Mat 24:20 and for eternity Isa 66:23 and why the apostles also kept every Sabbath decades after the cross, because a servant is never greater than their master.
So do we believe a thus saith the Lord or Paul words who we are told are often twisted out of context
Even the apostles taught we ought to obey God over man. Acts 5:29
Where are feast days in the Ten Commandments. They were added after sin- which is breaking God's law Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 1 John 3:4 Mat 5:19-30Ok we need to actually discuss this in it’s entirety because every time you make this statement I prove you wrong and you just ignore it.
Were the New Moon feasts commanded BY GOD?
WHO abolished the New Moon feasts? Did Paul do that on his own authority in Colossians 2?
Did Paul have the authority to abolish the New Moon feasts on his own?
You didn’t answer my questions. My questions had nothing to do with the sabbath, my questions were about the New Moon feasts.Do you believe Paul (out of context) or Jesus?
Paul is not getting rid of the commandment to only worship God, or not vain His holy name, or not covet or steal, or commit murder or break the least of these commandments and countermand the teachings of Jesus Mat 5:19 and God Exo 20 that's not at all what Paul is teaching hence 2 Peter 3:16
Instead of addressing the scriptures, you just went on to the next bad argument using Paul's hard to understand words out of context pitting them against what Jesus taught. When you find the verse that Jesus says we don't have to keep the Ten Commandments, please let me know.
Can you point out where it says feasts in this verse?You didn’t answer my questions. My questions had nothing to do with the sabbath, my questions were about the New Moon feasts.
Were the New Moon feasts commanded BY GOD?
WHO abolished the New Moon feasts? Did Paul do that on his own authority in Colossians 2?
Did Paul have the authority to abolish the New Moon feasts on his own?
I’m not talking about Isaiah 66. I’m talking about Colossians 2:16.Can you point out where it says feasts in this verse?
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
The feasts days came after the fall of man for sinning (breaking God's law) always pointed forward to JesusI’m not talking about Isaiah 66. I’m talking about Colossians 2:16.
The purpose of my questions is to get you to admit that your statements that you made in this quote below are a strawman argument.
Were the New Moon feasts commanded BY GOD?
WHO abolished the New Moon feasts? Did Paul do that on his own authority in Colossians 2?
Did Paul have the authority to abolish the New Moon feasts on his own?
Ok this is the third time you refused to answer the questions because you don’t want to admit your mistake.The feasts days which came after the fall of man for sinning (breaking God's law) always pointed to Jesus
Col 2:6 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
Paul us not referring to the Ten Commandments here, there is no food or drink or festivals or new moons or sabbaths (s) plural with a small s in the Ten Commandments.
Col 2:14 gives the context
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
They were handwritten - the Ten Commandments was finger written by God Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16 They were ordinances. The Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments thus saith the Lord Exo 20:6 and they were contrary and against- which is not the definition to holy and blessed by God that only He can reverse Num 23:20 so we would need a thus saith the Lord. The context doesn't fit yet sadly people don't seem to care so whose will is that?
Paul is obviously not referring to any of the Ten Commandments here plus Jesus in His own Words said the Sabbath would still be kept decades after the Cross Mat 24:20 and for eternity Isa 66:23
What was handwritten and contrary and against that was contained in the ordinances? If we allow scripture to be our guide it plainly tells us
2 Cor 3:38 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.
Deut 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you
This is the book that contained the annual feast days that many were sabbath(s) that had to do with food and drink offerings that included the new moon offerings that are not to be confused with the weekly Sabbath commandment, that started at Creation Gen 2:1-3, God's perfect plan before sin.
All of the animal sacrifices and feast days, new moon festivals all pointed forward to Christ
Exo 12:43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: No foreigner shall eat it.
1 Cor 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
Which is why Colossians 2:17 tells us it points to sacrifices, not any of the Ten Commandments that is still a sin to break the least of these even in the NC and why Jesus in His own Words said the Sabbath didn't end at the Cross Mat 24:20 Isa 66:23
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the [a]substance is of Christ.
Hebrews 10
10 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once [a]purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, [b]O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been [c]sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
These were always a place holder for Christ, which sacrifices could not take away the sins of the world but the Lamb of God's blood could. Sin is still the same- breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 breaking one of these commandments we break them all James 2:10-12 even the Sabbath commandment as God's Ten Commandments came in a unit put together by God by design Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 not one has ever been abrogated.
I'm going to have to agree with Wesley here
This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages.
—JOHN WESLEY, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.
I guess we can agree to disagree and it all sorts itself out soon enough.
You're so stuck on your narrative that you can't even look at the context of these passages. Paul has no authority to change anything- all authority is with Jesus Mat 28:18. This passage isn't about changing the Sabbath commandment, its about what the animal sacrifices and feast days represent and who they pointed to as clearly shown by the scriptures.Ok this is the third time you refused to answer the questions because you don’t want to admit your mistake.
Were the New Moon feasts commanded BY GOD?
Yes the New Moon feasts were commanded by God.
WHO abolished the New Moon feasts? Did Paul do that on his own authority in Colossians 2?
The New Moon feasts were abolished BY GOD, NOT BY PAUL because Paul didn’t have the authority to overrule God’s law. Paul was simply the messenger in Colossians 2, not the shot caller.
Did Paul have the authority to abolish the New Moon feasts on his own?
No Paul did not have the authority to overrule any of God’s commandments.
You didn’t want to answer these questions because you didn’t want to admit the truth that it was not Paul who was abolishing anything in Colossians 2 because that’s part of your tactic to use this strawman idea that Paul didn’t have the authority to overrule God’s commandment for the Sabbath when the truth is, Paul didn’t have the authority to overrule ANY of God’s commandments. And secondly the fact that the New Moon feasts were abolished automatically refutes your argument that NOT ONE JOT OR TITTLE has been removed from the law. Because Jesus never said that it wouldn’t pass away, He said that it wouldn’t pass away UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED. According to what we observe about the New Moon feasts whatever “ALL” included in that passage has already been fulfilled because the New Moon feasts have PASSED AWAY along with several other laws. The Jews can’t even keep the law anymore because they don’t have a temple to perform the rituals that are commanded by God’s law. You keep quoting Matthew 5:18 as if Jesus was only referring to the 10 commandments but that’s not what He actually said. He said not of not or tittle of the LAW not the 10 commandments.
So you refused to answer my questions because you didn’t want to admit that you know full well that anything that Paul said that was abolished in God’s law wasn’t made by Paul’s authority and you didn’t want to admit that laws have passed away according to what Paul wrote in Colossians 2 because this exposes the errors of your argument.
Again I didn’t say anything about the Sabbath passing away. This discussion was entirely about whether or not Paul abolished the New Moon feasts of his own authority and the fact that the New Moon feasts were abolished means that whatever Jesus meant by “until all is fulfilled” must’ve already come to pass since the New Moon feasts were abolished.You're so stuck on your narrative that you can't even look at the context of these passaging. Paul has no authority to change anything- all authority is with Jesus Mat 28:18. This passage isn't about changing the Sabbath commandment, its about what the animal sacrifices and feast days represent and who they pointed to as clearly shown by the scriptures.
Christ fulfilled all the feast days, annual sabbath(s) new moon festivals, and all sacrifices as the scriptures shows. Christ did not remove one jot or tittle from His law that He said He would not alter Psa 89:34 because God does not want His children to sin before or after the Cross as our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30. Now instead of taking an animal sacrifice for sins which is still breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 we can repent (change of heart and direction) and confess directly to Jesus who is now our High Priest. Once Jesus heals He says go and sin no more as we are not only to confess our sins we are to forsake them Pro 28:13Again I didn’t say anything about the Sabbath passing away. This discussion was entirely about whether or not Paul abolished the New Moon feasts of his own authority and the fact that the New Moon feasts were abolished means that whatever Jesus meant by “until all is fulfilled” must’ve already come to pass since the New Moon feasts were abolished.
The whole point of this argument is to get you to stop using Matthew 5:18 to say that the Sabbath is still in effect and to get you to stop making this ridiculous strawman argument that Paul didn’t have the authority to abolish God’s commandments, because NOBODY in this entire thread thinks that Paul had such authority.
When Christ fulfills an instruction from God, then we don't have to keep taking those same physical actions.Christ fulfilled all the feast days, annual sabbath(s) new moon festivals,
...and all sacrifices as the scriptures shows. Christ did not remove one jot or tittle from His law that He said He would not alter Psa 89:34 because God does not want His children to sin before or after the Cross as our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30. Now instead of taking an animal sacrifice for sins which is still breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 we can repent (change of heart and direction) and confess directly to Jesus who is now our High Priest. Once Jesus heals He says go and sin no more as we are not only to confess our sins we are to forsake them Pro 28:13
If not one jot or tittle has been removed then we would still have to observe the New Moon feasts.Christ fulfilled all the feast days, annual sabbath(s) new moon festivals, and all sacrifices as the scriptures shows. Christ did not remove one jot or tittle from His law that He said He would not alter Psa 89:34 because God does not want His children to sin before or after the Cross as our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30. Now instead of taking an animal sacrifice for sins which is still breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 we can repent (change of heart and direction) and confess directly to Jesus who is now our High Priest. Once Jesus heals He says go and sin no more as we are not only to confess our sins we are to forsake them Pro 28:13
Can you please point out where it says new moon feasts in Mat 5:18-30?If not one jot or tittle has been removed then we would still have to observe the New Moon feasts.
So now you’re saying we have to observe the New Moon feasts?Better to observe it than if one doesn't understand what Mat 5:17-30 Psa 89:34 Deut 4:13 Exo 32:16 Heb 10:1-22 Col 2:14-17 etc means than to break one of the least of these commandments that Jesus said would keep us out of heaven.
Until one understands the difference between the Ten Commandments and the law of Moses that was placed outside the ark as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 sadly, will have a hard time reconciling scriptures.
The Galatians would disagree with you on that after their rebuke for trying to be justified thru works of the law.Can you please point out where it says new moon feasts in Mat 5:18-30?
Until one understands the difference between the Ten Commandments and the law of Moses that was placed outside the ark as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 sadly, will have a hard time reconciling scriptures.
The main law in Galatians is about circumcision required for new Christian converts Gal 2:3 , not about disobeying God.The Galatians would disagree with you on that after their rebuke for trying to be justified thru works of the law.