Denying Calvinism...

[Alithis]

Psa_14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Anything good in us is given to us from above. It is not our own. All we have to ourselves is our evil.



And there is too much scripture which says "flesh and blood have not revealed it unto thee [that I am the Christ], but my Father who is in heaven."

There is nothing in your flesh that can give you the knowledge of the LORD. Even when God shows miracles to us, we are too wicked even to profit from them, unless He gives it to us.

Deu 29:2 And Moses called all Israel, and said to them: You have seen all the things that the Lord did before you in the land of Egypt to Pharao, and to all his servants, and to his whole land.
Deu 29:3 The great temptations, which thy eyes have seen, those mighty signs and wonders,
Deu 29:4 And the Lord hath not given you a heart to understand, and eyes to see, and ears that may hear, unto this present day.

i dont recall disagreeing with you on this point ..i just said .. sure we can "do good" but it can never be good enough .. as in it does not equate with Gods goodness .

might i suggest that you turn down the burner on your gas stove a little ... some replies in here are far more heated then required from a few quarters .

 

[striger]

"Vibrations"? Well that's not quite the vibe that I'm getting, but who knows, maybe we are simply playing different tunes.

You're playing a lower octave of the same tune. The earths vibration vibrates 7.4 megahertz. When man tunes into that wave, the skull vibrates with it. If you hung 10 clocks with a pendulum on the same wall and come back in a few days, youll find all the pendulums swinging in the same direction. When the mediator harmonize with the frequency, the brian bounces to the point where bio electricity is produced. When the current flows in certian directions in the brian, it produces vocal mouth movements. This is when a man make sounds with the mouth. Most people don't understand the sounds from the man's mouth but they claim its from higher power

 

[Hammster]

MOD HAT ON



Did a clean up of some flaming posts.

You may post against Calvinism. But you may not flame Calvinists.

Pretty simple.


MOD HAT OFF

 

[Doctor Octavius]

As Putin recently said to a very strange remark by a protagonist reporter “You really make me laugh. God bless you, because it’s almost time to finish the day, indeed it is already time to go to sleep. At least I will arrive home in good humour”. When I think back about the reporters cold blank bewildered stare, it just struck me, he must have been a Calvinist.

You're comparing you and me to Putin and a reporter respectively? Putin is a mass murderer who killed some 50,000 Chechens in indiscriminate carpet bombing, wounding maybe around 100,000 to 200,000 people, in a war that was started by apartment bombings widely believed to have been carried about by the FSB (it is the reason why Russia accuses the United States of performing the 9/11 terrorist attacks in their media-- pure projection); not to mention countless people poisoned, murdered, beaten, kidnapped, falsely imprisoned, just for having anti-Putin opinions.

you will of course be unable to take this passage on face value

There's nothing in its face value that says what you claim, as I already explained. You are assuming that the "did not enter into my heart" means "I never would have guessed you would have done that!", because you are determined to take away from God His omniscience, when it only means "I would never think of telling you to do this" as the CEV bible paraphrases it.

Heresy, well that's "Calvinist heresy" and not real heresy

You will not find a single church confession from any denomination or church council of any century supports you. It's real heresy.

Yes his understanding (tebunah) is indeed infinite but his has nothing to do with his knowledge of minute and mundane future events

If God does not have knowledge of "minute and mundane future events," his understanding can't be infinite.

God certainly knows about what he has done in the past and present and he undoubtedly knows what he will be doing in the future as well; but his has nothing to do with him knowing about OUR minute and mundane thoughts – and why would he even bother.

God can't know what He will do if He doesn't know what you are also doing.

By the way, is your argument that God does indeed know all future events, just not the "minute and mundane" ones? If not, then saying "minute and mundane" is quite deceptive. If so, it's completely bizarre, because why would God's knowledge of the future halt at the mundane when He counts even the hairs on our head? And even knows the exact second of our death?

This passage has absolutely nothing to do with God knowing about all of our future thoughts and actions​

It says God declares the things that have not yet been "done." To "do" is an action. Thus your assertion that it has nothing to do "with God knowing about all our future thoughts and actions" is just nonsense since it plainly says that He has power to "declare" what will be done before it is done.​

 

[Doctor Octavius]

i dont recall disagreeing with you on this point ..i just said .. sure we can "do good" but it can never be good enough .. as in it does not equate with Gods goodness .

You disagreed with me again. You are looking at a verse that says "no one doeth good," and then saying "we can do good."

might i suggest that you turn down the burner on your gas stove a little ... some replies in here are far more heated then required from a few quarters .

My response was perfectly normal! Don't confuse me merely responding to you with "he's angry!"

 

[Alithis]

You disagreed with me again. You are looking at a verse that says "no one doeth good," and then saying "we can do good."

My response was perfectly normal! Don't confuse me merely responding to you with "he's angry!"

because no one does good by Gods standard of good .. they are not in and of themselves ..obedient. they fall short .their goodness does not match up .. no one does good in an absolute sense .we needn't take every response in a discussion to the extremity of its meaning .

 

[Biblicist]

You're comparing you and me to Putin and a reporter respectively? Putin is a mass murderer who killed some 50,000 Chechens in indiscriminate carpet bombing, wounding maybe around 100,000 to 200,000 people, in a war that was started by apartment bombings widely believed to have been carried about by the FSB (it is the reason why Russia accuses the United States of performing the 9/11 terrorist attacks in their media-- pure projection); not to mention countless people poisoned, murdered, beaten, kidnapped, falsely imprisoned, just for having anti-Putin opinions.

No, I was comparing your remarks to the reporter who obviously had his facts completely skewed where any prudent observer would have joined Putin with his amusement with the reporters obvious bias and failure to observe what was plain for all to see – it certainly made me smile as well.

As for Russia’s reprisal attacks against the Chechen Islamo-terrorists who killed 293 Russian citizens in their homes and where 651 were injured, then I think that they were justified with trying to deal with this very complicated and messy Islamo-terrorist problem within their borders. As for 50,000 Chechens supposedly being killed by carpet bombing, I am aware of at least 35 being killed in one air strike but as for your figure I have no idea where you found that ‘data’. As for the Chechen Islamo-terrorists, they were best exemplified by the horrid Beslan school massacre.

But you need to remember that the US attacked Afghanistan after 9/11 where the US had to withdraw in failure where that problematic ‘nation’ is now worse off than ever. Unlike US efforts in places such as Afghanistan and Iraq along with the initial US support of the Islamo-terrorists in Syria which saw the rise of the Islamic “State”, the Russian Federation has at least been successful with rebuilding Chechen infrastructure where they have tried to ensure that the Chechens can begin to lead a relatively normal life.

As I am a product of the Cold War era, it does seem strange that the new Russian Federation has become the good (or at least the better) guy where the various Western powers including my own seem hell bent on supporting the New Age order of things - weird indeed.

But this is way outside of the scope of the thread which is why I have kept my remarks on a seperate post.

 

[Doctor Octavius]

because no one does good by Gods standard of good .. they are not in and of themselves ..obedient. they fall short .their goodness does not match up ..

You are still ascribing to them some measure of goodness. it is better to say: that even their best works are sinful-- they are corrupted, arising from a wicked heart, even the "plowing of the wicked, is sin" (Pro 21:4), or as Gill explains that verse, "all the civil actions of a wicked man, one being put for all, are attended with sin; he sins in all he does." They arise from impure motivations, or are not done for the glory of God, or else they are corrupted in some other way. It is properly said-- not in extremity-- that "no one doeth good," that is, man in his natural state, cannot do good. The only exception is this: the works that God does in us and through us. All our real virtues come from God, and not from us. The only thing we have to ourselves is our evil.

 

[Biblicist]

There's nothing in its face value that says what you claim, as I already explained. You are assuming that the "did not enter into my heart" means "I never would have guessed you would have done that!", because you are determined to take away from God His omniscience, when it only means "I would never think of telling you to do this" as the CEV bible paraphrases it.

“A paraphrase hey”! Maybe that might be a hint that your position is rather tenuous, you have to wonder why the main translations (at least with the 15 that I have) have chosen to go with the flow of the passage without feeling the need to ‘adjust’ its meaning – interesting isn’t it.

But my main point which probably covers a number of your other statements, which I recognize are probably consistent with Calvinist thought; that they can be summed up by saying that the Calvinist overlay has sadly introduced a lot of unnecessary logical impossibilities that go way beyond what the Scriptures have to say regarding the Father where it even fails to understand the character of God, which is probably reflected with why so many within extreme Calvinism are deemed to be cold and austere where they often fail to reflect any joy in the Lord. This charge is so widespread (be it either right or wrong) that even the Calvinist John Piper saw that there was an urgent need to address this widespread charge a couple of years back.

This Calvinist construct is probably the reason why Calvinism in general has been the most resistant towards both the operations and person of the Holy Spirit in todays church. Of course New Calvinism which I grant seems to have a number of different pathways certainly does not succumb to this limited understanding of God which is exemplified by the traditional Calvinist construct. Who knows, maybe the many populist Calvinist remarks that I see that refer to the New Calvinists as being Arminian or quasi-Arminians in Calvinist clothing might actually have some substance?

As a Pentecostal we have no need for liturgies which were developed centuries ago so that people could connect with the idea of the Holy Spirit who they read about but where they sadly rarely seem to experience in any real manner. A life that is based squarely on both the Scriptures and experientially through the Holy Spirit better enables us to experience the Christian walk as the Father intended without (hopefully) having the need to introduce logical impossibilities to support a limited and a finite human understanding of the majesty of the Trinity.

You will not find a single church confession from any denomination or church council of any century supports you. It's real heresy.

“Any denomination”, does that include the massive Assemblies of God or with the other large Pentecostal denominations which would in their own right may possibly comprise the majority of the worlds Born Again Christians – I think not. To go to the other side of the coin, what do the Southern Baptists say on this question, which I have no knowledge of.

As these councils rarely have any relevance to todays church, particularly with the Pentecostals where some Evangelical denominations will undoubtedly place more weight with them, then your point is somewhat moot. As these councils were created during the lean times of the church where the term the Dark Ages certainly has some relevance then their opinions probably at best reflect a limited understanding and experience of God that we developed in a time of a widespread spiritual vacuum.

Edit: If you have any links to where these councils spoke about God knowing our every future thought then that would be appreciated.

 

[Doctor Octavius]

As I am a product of the Cold War era, it does seem strange that the new Russian Federation has become the good (or at least the better) guy where the various Western powers including my own seem hell bent on supporting the New Age order of things - weird indeed.

So on top of everything else, you're a dupe for a totalitarian state? Well, nothing surprises me about you anymore.

Maybe that might be a hint that your position is rather tenuous,

The real hint of tenuousness comes from when you talk more, but say even less.

 

[Biblicist]

So on top of everything else, you're a dupe for a totalitarian state? Well, nothing surprises me about you anymore.

The real hint of tenuousness comes from when you talk more, but say even less.

Umm....do you mean with the North American State where their police are running around in military vehicles shooting unarmed civilians and where their secular President has effectively turned a blind eye; or with how that same State has created numerous wars in more recent years which have gone absolutely belly-up? In that case no, I am referring to the Russian Federation where it's apparent Christian President has resisted the temptation to bomb the living daylights out of any nation who disagrees with its foreign policies.

Having said this, as many Christians (and non-Christians) here in Australia are a bit bewildered by the endemic violence found both within the shores of the US and with their amazingly naive foreign policies; I actually find myself going on the defensive toward US developments where hopefully I have been able to adequately explain the complex social, political and cultural complications that are in play - I really do enjoy visiting the US and plan to do so again in a couple of years.

With regard to the Russian Federation, even though they are undoubtedly the more stabling influence with world affairs, I would not be surprised to see them in a decade or two going the other way as a result of the unreasonable pressure that the US is currently putting on them.

 

[Doctor Octavius]

I have been able to adequately explain the complex social, political and cultural complications that are in play

Speaking of complex social, political and cultural complications, I've seen photographs of Ukrainian Christians with their heads cut off and put into boxes in East Ukraine (they mail them to the parents). Photos of Christian protestants with their cars shot up-- their businesses burned to the ground-- pastors taken and tortured and left dead in the woods-- because your "Christian country" has ordered its troops in Eastern Ukraine to wipe out all Christians, except for the "Russian Orthodox", which has massive membership in Russia, but only 1-2 percent even bother to show up to church on any given day. And in Russia proper, Christians, except for the Eastern Orthodox version, are routinely persecuted-- their churches demolished in Chinese-type "you didn't fill out all the proper paper work" type nonsense, even non-Russian Orthodox graveyards, filled with the bodies of Christians, are dug up, bones scattered all over the property, and memorial plaques get used for Russian-Orthodox dog houses. And on top of all of this, I've seen the slowly withering away photographs of Alexander Litvinenko, poisoned with Polonium 210 so he could die a slow and agonizing death; I've seen editors for opposition news papers with cracked skulls, because "mysterious" people grabbed him off the street and then beat him. I've seen perfectly innocent people going to jail for decades on trumped up charges because the justice system in Russia is just another part of the mafia that is the Kremlin.

All of this told me all I needed to know about Russia, and all I need to know about your chest thumping pseudo intellectualism and Christianity.

 

[Messy]

You are still ascribing to them some measure of goodness. it is better to say: that even their best works are sinful-- they are corrupted, arising from a wicked heart, even the "plowing of the wicked, is sin" (Pro 21:4), or as Gill explains that verse, "all the civil actions of a wicked man, one being put for all, are attended with sin; he sins in all he does." They arise from impure motivations, or are not done for the glory of God, or else they are corrupted in some other way. It is properly said-- not in extremity-- that "no one doeth good," that is, man in his natural state, cannot do good. The only exception is this: the works that God does in us and through us. All our real virtues come from God, and not from us. The only thing we have to ourselves is our evil.

Most humans are not pure demons before they get saved.
Romans 2
for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 pin the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

 

[Biblicist]

Speaking of complex social, political and cultural complications, I've seen photographs of Ukrainian Christians with their heads cut off and put into boxes in East Ukraine (they mail them to the parents). Photos of Christian protestants with their cars shot up-- their businesses burned to the ground-- pastors taken and tortured and left dead in the woods-- because your "Christian country" has ordered its troops in Eastern Ukraine to wipe out all Christians, except for the "Russian Orthodox", which has massive membership in Russia, but only 1-2 percent even bother to show up to church on any given day. And in Russia proper, Christians, except for the Eastern Orthodox version, are routinely persecuted-- their churches demolished in Chinese-type "you didn't fill out all the proper paper work" type nonsense, even non-Russian Orthodox graveyards, filled with the bodies of Christians, are dug up, bones scattered all over the property, and memorial plaques get used for Russian-Orthodox dog houses. And on top of all of this, I've seen the slowly withering away photographs of Alexander Litvinenko, poisoned with Polonium 210 so he could die a slow and agonizing death; I've seen editors for opposition news papers with cracked skulls, because "mysterious" people grabbed him off the street and then beat him. I've seen perfectly innocent people going to jail for decades on trumped up charges because the justice system in Russia is just another part of the mafia that is the Kremlin.

All of this told me all I needed to know about Russia, and all I need to know about your chest thumping pseudo intellectualism and Christianity.

As hard as I have been trying over the past year or so, I’ve been unable to find the pictures and stories that you have referred to though I am aware that in the Eastern Ukraine who are mainly either Russian citizens or at least Russian speaking, that the Evangelical and Pentecostal churches tend to be viewed with a degree of suspicion as if their members are more inclined to be Euro-centric and therefore untrustworthy.

From what I have heard, with the Hillsong Church in Kiev it appears that the younger Christians may be leaning towards Europe where they are in the predicament of having to support the neo-Nazi leadership of the Kiev government which has the full support of the US, whereas the older Pentecostal Christians are apparently more inclined to distrust the neo-Nazi’s in Kiev and lean toward accepting independence for East Ukraine or even if it chooses to return to their Russian homeland just as the citizens of the old Ukraine territory of the Crimea chose to do – their wise choice to leave the territory under the previous illegal rebel neo-nazi Kiev government has undoubtedly everted a world war.

The situation in Ukraine will probably never be solved before the Lord returns as the current neo-nazi government in Kiev seems hell bent with committing genocide in the Eastern Ukraine. As the East has been the industrial heartland of Ukraine it seems that Ukraine as a viable entity is simply a pipe-dream that will never be realised. Even though Putin may have been wise with keeping his troops out of Ukraine, I still wonder if it would have been better for the people of East Ukraine if his forces had of intervened where they could have established a buffer zone.

As for the Russian Federation, I agree that Putin’s Christian (or maybe “Christian”) faith is intensely Russian Orthodox which is hardly friendly toward either the Pentecostals or Evangelicals. But given that the Russian Federation is only about 25 years old it will take time for the Russian population to both hear and understand the Gospel. But as Putin has the strong support of at least 84% of the population and that they ‘appear’ to be well informed with what is happening with regard to the unjustified US imposed sanctions against them then my concern is that this could inhibit the effective preaching of the Gospel.

I've seen editors for opposition news papers with cracked skulls…

It seems that you have not watched the numerous Youtube videos that the neo-nazi forces were proudly posting where they were bashing the newspaper and TV editors who refused to follow their party line in Kiev. Have you seen how they regularly bash any member of parliament who dares go against their views? May I suggest that you avoid listening to CNN and check out a few more reliable sources. You might want to take a look at the various US State Department Press videos which show how much the US has been in disarray with their attempts to destablise the region; the State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki is an absolute classic as is Victoria Nuland.

 

[Doctor Octavius]

As hard as I have been trying over the past year or so, I’ve been unable to find the pictures and stories that you have referred

You have not tried very hard. A brief example, found just by googling "Christians Ukraine". Unfortunately, it appears I can't post links as of yet. I put them in there, but broke the "www" parts. You can reassemble them to see the original source:

"The Council of Evangelical Protestant Churches of Ukraine issued a statement in July reporting intense persecution of Christians, and of Evangelicals in particular. It cited ‘abductions, beatings, torture, threats of execution, pogroms at the places of prayer meetings’ and the capture of Christian buildings. Release contacts inside Ukraine say ‘the threat of war on a large scale’ is growing daily."

ht tp://ww w.releaseinternational.org/ukraine-mounting-violence-against-christians/]UKRAINE ? Mounting violence against Christians | Release International | Serving persecuted Christians around the world

"The church called and said my husband, along with three other believers, had been taken by men who were waiting outside the church," Elena said.
Alexander Gayvoronski, a church deacon, was there that Sunday morning.
"The men wore masks and had machine guns. They told the four Christian men to get into their cars," Gayvoronsi said.
The rebels took the pastor's sons, Ruvim and Albert Pavenko, Victor Brodarsky, and Elena's husband, Vladimir.
Multiple sources told CBN News what then happened to the four Christian captives.
First rebels took them outside the city and tortured them. The next day the men were put in car and told to drive away.
Then, minutes later they were recaptured and shot multiple times. Elena's husband was burned in the car.
"I don't hate my husband's killers. It is easy to start asking questions. Why did this happen? But if I keep thinking about this it will only wear me out," Elena said.
That same day rebels burned down the largest furniture factory that belonged to Ruvim and Albert Pavenko's father.
It had become clear rebels were targeting the city's evangelical community."

h ttp://ww w. cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2014/September/Tortured-in-Ukraine-Christians-Living-a-Nightmare/]Tortured in Ukraine: Christians Living a Nightmare - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

In Russia itself:

ht tp://ww w. thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/12816-russian-christians-fear-persecution-on-rise-as-moscow-church-building-demolished]Russian Christians Fear Persecution on Rise as Moscow Church Building Demolished

Link to collection of similar articles:

h ttp://ww w. christianpersecution.info/russia.php]Christian Persection Articles throughout Russia and the Former Soviet Union - Christian Persecution Magazine

From what I have heard, with the Hillsong Church in Kiev it appears that the younger Christians may be leaning towards Europe where they are in the predicament of having to support the neo-Nazi leadership of the Kiev

Poroshenko is not a Nazi, he is the leader of a liberal party; the Ukrainian Rada is largely moderate with some on the left and some on the center to the right. Svoboda has a few seats- Right Sector has none, or maybe 1 or 2. None of my dozen or so Ukrainian friends are "Nazi," nor have ever considered their country run by Nazis.

Even though Putin may have been wise with keeping his troops out of Ukraine, I still wonder if it would have been better for the people of East Ukraine if his forces had of intervened where they could have established a buffer zone.

Putin's army is already there:

"Some of the weapons are too sophisticated to be used by hastily trained separatists, a Western official said. NATO officials estimate that about 1,000 Russian military and intelligence personnel are supporting the separatist offensive while Ukrainian officials insist that the number is much higher."

ht tp://w ww. nytimes.com/2015/02/02/world/us-taking-a-fresh-look-at-arming-kiev-forces.html

Even the "separatist leaders" were trained in Russia in 2006 for the eventual invasion of Ukraine:

htt p://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.se/2014/08/pro-russian-extremists-in-2006-and-2014.html]Anton Shekhovtsov's blog: (Pro-)Russian extremists in 2006 and 2014: the Dugin Connection

As for the Russian Federation, I agree that Putin’s Christian (or maybe “Christian&#8221 faith is intensely Russian Orthodox

If "Christian" is defined as "people who brutally murder their own citizens alot," I guess I'd agree. But it's not defined that way, though.

Have you seen how they regularly bash any member of parliament who dares go against their views?

I've seen Communist party members (who support Russia's aggression) and politicians who voted for the dictatorship laws last last December getting thrown into dumpsters by angry crowds. Can't say I am too upset by this. It doesn't prove the Ukrainians are Nazi though. Same thing goes for your "numerous youtube videos", which I think you are exaggerating.

This is all a strange turn to the thread though, so I think I'll leave this as my last reply. Let it be a lesson to Christians here, at least, that just because someone claims to be "filled with the Spirit," doesn't mean they have any discernment or know anything. Even Balaam prophecized through the Holy Spirit, but was a Pagan.

 

[Alithis]

You are still ascribing to them some measure of goodness. it is better to say: that even their best works are sinful-- they are corrupted, arising from a wicked heart, even the "plowing of the wicked, is sin" (Pro 21:4), or as Gill explains that verse, "all the civil actions of a wicked man, one being put for all, are attended with sin; he sins in all he does." They arise from impure motivations, or are not done for the glory of God, or else they are corrupted in some other way. It is properly said-- not in extremity-- that "no one doeth good," that is, man in his natural state, cannot do good. The only exception is this: the works that God does in us and through us. All our real virtues come from God, and not from us. The only thing we have to ourselves is our evil.

perhaps ..if i was in some strict debate lol but this is a congregational forum ..i get the point dont worry ,was praying in that vein last nite .. but well , you know .. you can lighten up on the delivery

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Christ tells them "no man can come to me unless my Father draw Him." And then explains to the unbelievers the cause of their unbelief by saying "That is why I told you no man can come to me except it were given by my Father." The phrase "no man can come to me except it were given by my Father" is not anywhere in the text. Only "no man can come to me unless my Father draw them" exists there. Therefore, these phrases are interchangeable.

John 10:29-30
"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one"

I think that the Father gives us to Jesus under His (the Father's) authority. I think that throughout His life, Jesus has glorified the Father as being the Highest.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Most humans are not pure demons before they get saved.
Romans 2
for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 pin the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

So you consider humans to be demons? I don't see how the scripture that you referenced says that at all.

 

[Biblicist]

So you consider humans to be demons? I don't see how the scripture that you referenced says that at all.

It seems that Messy was utilising a bit of poetic license where she was saying that the unregenerate human is not so full of evil that they are almost like demons.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So I saw a shirt today worn by a teenage looking young man that said, "To deny Calvinism is to deny the gospel of Jesus Christ ~ C.H. Spurgeon" True or False?

FALSE, of course.

"Calvinism", like "Arminianism", or "Catholicism", or any other "ism" is a FLAWED ATTEMPT to quantify the Scriptures in a consistent manner, and come up with a set of DOCTRINAL BELIEFS to cope with Reality.

There's truth in Calvinism, and there's also ERROR. There is no PERFECT "theological systematic/denominational package.

Since the Southern Baptists got to me first in "Baptist Training Union" 50 years ago, Even after the "Non-Denominalizing experience" of the '70s, I'm STILL a "Calvinist leaning wild eyed charismatic eclectic".

SPurgeon was a GOOD preacher, anointed by God in his ministry. But he wasn't 100% RIGHT anymore than any other preacher is.