Denominations: why

[bbbbbbb]

...and as for the founding date? That was the question.

...and incidentally, could not most denominations claim to have been founded by Christ personally if we use the reasoning you outlined here?

Of course, all denominations can, and do, claim to have been founded by Christ. I have yet to encounter a Christian denomination that claims otherwise. The arguments for their legitimacy tend to fall into two primary categories - historical and theological. The historical argument is relatively simple - we are the denomination founded by Christ and everyone who disagrees with us merely schismed from the TRUE CHURCH, which we, alone, are. The theological argument is only slightly more complicated - we are the denomination founded by Christ because all others have fallen into apostasy of one form or another, but God, in His grace, has preserved His spiritual church over time without any particular bureaucratic mechanism to do so.

That said, today there is more flexibility among most denominations in their willingness to recognize other denominations as having some validity. For example, as we both know Rome has made various overtures to the Church of England.

 

[bbbbbbb]

thank you for not answering the question. It is obvious why you chose not to.

Do you have a problem with Jerome's Latin Vulgate Bible. You asked, "which bible did the Lutheran's and Anglican's start with before slicing and dicing books?"

If Jerome's Latin Vulgate Bible was not used by the Reformers do you know which translation was?

 

[Albion]

Of course, all denominations can, and do, claim to have been founded by Christ. I have yet to encounter a Christian denomination that claims otherwise.

Only in am abstract sense or in concept. Something like that.

But if we look at this in the usual way, tracing the history, we can appreciate that none of today's denominations is the original church of Christ to the exclusion of all the others, but most of them can indeed claim to be branches off from the original.

There once was the so-called "undivided church" of the first millennium, and then it all broke apart and broke again, and none today are "the one" despite what devotees of one or another of these sometimes say.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Only in am abstract sense or in concept. Something like that.

But if we look at this in the usual way, tracing the history, we can appreciate that none of today's denominations is the original church of Christ to the exclusion of all the others, but most of them can indeed claim to be branches off from the original.

There once was the so-called "undivided church" of the first millennium, and then it all broke apart and broke again, and none today are "the one" despite what devotees of one or another of these sometimes say.

I entirely agree.

 

[hluke]

Our Lord founded One Church. Luther founded another. Henry VIII founded another, I could go on and on....about 80,000 times but I dont want this post to be too long.

there is one Spiritual church: we are all the bride of Christ

 

[concretecamper]

there is one Spiritual church: we are all the bride of Christ

that is incorrect. The Church is Visible.

Mat 5:14 You are the light of the world. A city seated on a mountain cannot be hid.
5:15 Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but upon a candlestick, that it may shine to all that are in the house.
5:16 So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

 

[hluke]

that is incorrect. The Church is Visible.

Mat 5:14 You are the light of the world. A city seated on a mountain cannot be hid.
5:15 Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but upon a candlestick, that it may shine to all that are in the house.
5:16 So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

Of course, a literal church is physical, but when the church is labelled 'the body of Christ', it's certainly not only referring to Roman Catholics. Would you agree?

 

[concretecamper]

Of course, a literal church is physical, but when the church is 'the body of Christ, it's certainly not only referring to Roman Catholics. Would you agree?

Jesus is referring to a Church that He founded which according to Tradition and Scripture is One, Visible, and Authoritative.

 

[hluke]

Jesus is referring to a Church that He founded which according to Tradition and Scripture is One, Visible, and Authoritative.

I respect your position sir.
Stay close to God!

 

[Albion]

there is one Spiritual church: we are all the bride of Christ

That is true. But it's also true that the New Testament makes more than clear that there is also what is called "the Visible Church." It's also called the institutional church by some people.

The New Testament goes to some lengths to describe worship services being conducted, where that happened, who were the leaders and organizers, what their qualifications were, and Jesus' instructions about some of the specifics.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That is true. But it's also true that the New Testament makes more than clear that there is also what is called "the Visible Church." It's also called the institutional church by some people.

The New Testament goes to some lengths to describe worship services being conducted, where that happened, who were the leaders and organizers, what their qualifications were, and Jesus' instructions about some of the specifics.

Yes, it is not a question of either/or. There is one indivisible body of Jesus Christ united by His Holy Spirit which is invisible to humanity and there is also the visible expression of the body. Within each visible church there are members of the invisible Church. Some visible churches may have more and some less, but only God knows those who are His.

 

[Vachristian11]

This was from Man, not God. I feel the scriptures are very clear and the Bible is Gods manual for us on how we should live. The day we should worship 4th Commandment, what foods we should eat, how to treat each other. Satan has twisted and confused this as he is trying to take as many lives as he can.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

I completely agree it's a man-made construct. There is no way that God intended for division in the church. How do you usually study the word?

 

[Vachristian11]

I can't say God orchestrated it, but he certainly allowed it. I see a positive side, though. Since denominations have hierarchies that ultimately control their direction, if one becomes corrupt, the others are not harmed.

That's an interesting take, but I'm wondering whether or not this was something that God would allow or if it's Satan's doing? Regardless I think we need to look in the word

Only in am abstract sense or in concept. Something like that.

But if we look at this in the usual way, tracing the history, we can appreciate that none of today's denominations is the original church of Christ to the exclusion of all the others, but most of them can indeed claim to be branches off from the original.

There once was the so-called "undivided church" of the first millennium, and then it all broke apart and broke again, and none today are "the one" despite what devotees of one or another of these sometimes say.

That's a good observation, and I think we need to go back to understanding what true religion is, one that God accepts (James 1:27), and truly understand what that means for ourselves, instead of following a certain denomination or doctrine

 

[Albion]

That's a good observation, and I think we need to go back to understanding what true religion is, one that God accepts (James 1:27), and truly understand what that means for ourselves, instead of following a certain denomination or doctrine

.
Very well, but we need to keep in mind that this thread is about denominations.

After having made the point that Christ wouldn't approve of rival denominations and also that there is the invisible church, we need to return to the topic here (IMO).

 

[Vachristian11]

.
Very well, but we need to keep in mind that this thread is about denominations.

After having made the point that Christ wouldn't approve of rival denominations and also that there is the invisible church, we need to return to the topic here (IMO).

Well I think that's the point. Where do these denominations come from? And I am not familiar with this concept of the invisible church. Could you explain?

 

[Albion]

Well I think that's the point. Where do these denominations come from? And I am not familiar with this concept of the invisible church. Could you explain?

The term, "the invisible church," is often used to refer to what other posts here have called the spiritual bond that all true believers share (in post #25, for example), regardless of denominational affiliation, if any.

Where do the various denominations come from, then? As has been said before, that's the result of Christians disagreeing on doctrine or religious practice. We all believe that we ought to do what is right, what the Bible teaches, and also that it's right to separate from wrongdoing, to not be unequally yoked together with unbelief, and so on...So that's the origin.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I completely agree it's a man-made construct. There is no way that God intended for division in the church. How do you usually study the word?

For me, I read the Bible every night before going to bed. On Sabbath (Saturday) I go to church and the rest of the day spend studying the Bible or watching online sermons or biblically-related programs. Once COVID/Fires ease up I would like to do more charity/witnessing on Sabbath. I also try to pray as often as I can throughout the day and ask for His will for my life. Currently I work almost 6 days, so on Sabbath I look forward to strengthen my relationship with God. I recently stopped watching almost all secular TV and started listening to mainly Christian music. It has made a big difference in my life.

May I ask the same question how do you study the word?

 

[concretecamper]

There is no such thing as "the invisible church."

 

[bbbbbbb]

There is no such thing as "the invisible church."

Interesting. It seems to me that come tomorrow the multitude of Catholic churches, especially in Europe, which have untold millions of members, will be filled primarily with "invisible" Catholics who very rarely, if ever, bother to attend mass.

 

[concretecamper]

Interesting. It seems to me that come tomorrow the multitude of Catholic churches, especially in Europe, which have untold millions of members, will be filled primarily with "invisible" Catholics who very rarely, if ever, bother to attend mass.

there is also no such thing as "invisible" catholics