Demonic Influences

[kdet]

That's correct, sweetkitty. But I think Pete already knew that.

I didn't post it for Pete but for anyone else that might be reading and be confused.
Speaking of demonic influences..what are your thoughts on music?

 

[good4u]

So Pete, why does it need to be a joke? Is the subject just a bit too much for you?

 

[Pete Harcoff]

So Pete, why does it need to be a joke? Is the subject just a bit too much for you?

The subject a bit too much for me?

Er, no, I just don't hold a belief in the supernatural, and I think that many of these so-called experiences with the supernatural are more to do with the minds of the individuals involved than any supernatural forces.

Especially when they involve things like Ouija Boards, for which a mystique already exists thanks to decades of marketing, lore, etc.

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste all,

as a past student of the occult, i would concur with good4you's position that there is something behind the world we see with our eyes. i'm not sure that i would characterize them as "demons" per sey, since that term is a bit loosely defined. i suppose i could use Jinn from the Islamic tradition, but as i'm not a Muslim i don't really think in those terms. in my own tradition they would be considered Hungry Ghosts.

in any event, the number of people witnessing an event does not affirm to deny it's actual occurance. case in point... when they made the statue of Liberty disappear. millions saw it happen, even though it really didn't disappear. for all intents and purposes, it did.

in a very real sense, i can explain all of the supernatural occurances with Quantum Theory, especially things like temp dropping in a room and things appearing to move by their own and so forth, and i think that it is a much more likely answer than the supernatural.... even though i believe in the supernatural, though not perhaps in the same way as a westerner would.

 

[good4u]

vaj,

This was no "theory" this was EVIDENCE. I SAW the pointer move. I did not move it. My brother did not move it. The cold room did not move it. Heat rises, but it doesn't move pointers. Rooms don't get noticeably colder by itself.

Nothing "flew" around the room. Our voices did not change in weird ways. But something DID happen out of my control. Now you tell me, hmmmmm?

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

You forgot to add in your opinion
Many of us have had experiences to the contrary.

How do you honestly know it's contrary though??

Multiple people are holding ONE piece that moves across a board.


just a few things...

1. The piece is very light and smooth on the bottom, the lightest touch will cause the piece to move

2. The more people you have, the more easily it will move

3. Even if 1&2 were not a factor, how can you fully know that the person beside wasn't moving it? You don't.

Heck I know people who would move it themselves purposfully, but htey are so much of psycological liar that they will swear up and down that he/she didn't move it, but it actually moved itself, in hope to add drama to situation making it look like that they actually crossed over to another dimension or something of that sorts.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

heres something else I want to add:


Are quijia boards evil???

I will tell you right now that quijia boards are just as evil as a monopoly board. They are cardbaord with paint and some pieces, and nothing more.

Satan and demons can interviene anywhere at anytime with Gods given approval. So with this is in mind, I can't help but to think those who think quijia boards are evil are psycologically fooling themselves.

Mention quijia board, people flip out, but why??? Because it's doing something that advertisers wanted people to think??? Come onn people, you know as well as I do that we all would personally like some attention, conflict, or drama occasionally, having a quijia board alone automatically builds up that drama..... it's not b/c its a gate way to hell, but it's b/c of "weird" stories people have heard in which most of those stories can be explained scientifically.

Blair witch is a good example... How many people thought it was a real story until they saw the movie and found out it was fake??? Nearly all of them, thats why it sold, cause they thought it was real.

Same thing with quijia boards.

I am done.

 

[vajradhara]

vaj,

This was no "theory" this was EVIDENCE. I SAW the pointer move. I did not move it. My brother did not move it. The cold room did not move it. Heat rises, but it doesn't move pointers. Rooms don't get noticeably colder by itself.

Nothing "flew" around the room. Our voices did not change in weird ways. But something DID happen out of my control. Now you tell me, hmmmmm?

Namaste good4u,

we call scientific theories, theories, because we can always discover something new that forces us to change our current understanding. however, it should be borne in mind that "theory" does not mean untestable or unproveable. in fact it, by necessity, precludes those very things. according to Hawking, a good scientific theory is one that is simple and makes definite predictions that can be tested and verified.

Quantum mechanics quite easily accounts for all of the various phenomenon that you experienced. and there is really no more simple explanation than that.

we can posit a supernatural explanation, however that is not simple and relies upon things which cannot be measured. not to say that means that it's invalid, rather what i'm trying to get at is that there are two, equally good, explanations for what happened to you.

the question is... which ones seems correct to you? you've chosen the supernatural explanation. this is a perfectly valid choice and i'm not trying to intimate otherwise. having undergone much more dramatic experiences than what you've described here, i've chosen the quantum mechanical explanation for it is a far simpler explanation.... even though i, too, believe in the supernatural.

they are both valid explanations of the events that we witnessed... which should be the big clue right there

 

[Pete Harcoff]

vaj,

This was no "theory" this was EVIDENCE. I SAW the pointer move. I did not move it. My brother did not move it. The cold room did not move it. Heat rises, but it doesn't move pointers. Rooms don't get noticeably colder by itself.

Nothing "flew" around the room. Our voices did not change in weird ways. But something DID happen out of my control. Now you tell me, hmmmmm?

Did the pointer really move? Or did you only think it moved?

The human imagination is very powerful, especially in a heightened state of anxiety.

I, too, have "seen" things move (or at least I could have sworn they've moved). I've seen shapes out of the corner of my eye, sometimes so vividly that I could have sworn there was someone with me. I've had dreams where I've woken up, yet still hallucinated what I was dreaming.

Yet, I chock these things up to products of my own mind, especially since they leave no lasting evidence that they were anything but the product of my imagination.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Blair witch is a good example... How many people thought it was a real story until they saw the movie and found out it was fake??? Nearly all of them, thats why it sold, cause they thought it was real.

Speaking of the Blair Witch Project, I remember seeing that with a buddy when it came out.

The following night, however, my buddy was walking at night to the bus stop (he worked a nightshift). Part of his walk led him past a forest. He described to me, how after watching the Blair Witch, this walk past the forest scared the **** out of him. He was suddenly aware of all the noises in the forest, and every single sound only heightened his fear. Now, did anything change in the forest from the night before he watched the Blair Witch to the night after? No. But the experience of the movie and his heightened anxiety now made him fearful of that forest. In other words, he was doing it to himself.

 

[Nathan David]

Rooms don't get noticeably colder by itself.

Maybe not (unless a sudden stiff breeze came up outside, or the furnace hiccuped), but your perception of the temperature can change.

 

[revolutio]

Do you ever get goosebumps when you are scared? Do you think those are devils tickling your back?

 

[good4u]

You see, the problem with the opposition is this regarding Ouija Boards:

It is a disguised as a "game" and maybe most of the time it is. HOWEVER, the one time it is not is when you realize you can't go back to it as just a "game." That is what happend to my brother and I it was as tho' I INVITED something bigger than myself to be there. I believe IT was. I had no control making it go away. I just didn't will the temperature to rise in the room. And say, "Room, return to a comfortable temperature."

I prayed to God, ASAP. Asked Him to forgive me of my sin of disobedience and asked him to remove whatever presence was there, whatever it was. The room gradually became warmer, just like it gradually got colder as we played the "game." Say what you will, I do not care.

All I know is since that incident, I have never had another experience like that again. God willing, I never will.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

And what I am saying is that it had nothing to do with the fact that it was a quijia board.

 

[vajradhara]

And what I am saying is that it had nothing to do with the fact that it was a quijia board.

namaste ArchAngel,

you are correct, the ouija board is a happenstance of the circumstance and nothing more.

the experience is a seperate matter, though, and i believe that good4u is sincere.

 

[good4u]

And what I am saying is that it had nothing to do with the fact that it was a quijia board.

No, I am saying the exact opposite. It had EVERYTHING to do with the Ouija Board.

 

[good4u]

This whole thread relates to a person's heart condition b/4 God. Spiritual issues always do. It is obvious in what was posted by every poster.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

No, I am saying the exact opposite. It had EVERYTHING to do with the Ouija Board.

So you really believe some mass-market cardboard and plastic can instill the ability on someone to contact spirits?

 

[good4u]

So you really believe some mass-market cardboard and plastic can instill the ability on someone to contact spirits?

Can channelling? Can tarot readings? Can astral projection?

These are all avenues for events much bigger than you anticpated and spiral out of your control. Because YOU INVITED...then another is in control that you may not want.

Does it happen EVERY single time? No.

All it needs is to happen once.

Are you willing to take that chance?

Not me. Never again.

It is not that you can not believe, it is that you will not believe.

I live in Show-me Missouri. I have been shown. I believe.

 

[revolutio]

Somewhere there is a proof that disproves astral projection, I can't seem to locate it as of now.